Upcoming Kharkov trip

[sleepycat]

Hi there,

In about ten days time I will be going to Kharkov for three weeks to meet several UW from that city. This will be my third trip to that city and again I will be relying on Mila's help while I am over there. I originally booked the plane tickets for this trip in late December last year, when it was still relatively peaceful over there.

Originally my flight schedule was Perth -> Dubai (Emirates) and then Dubai -> Kharkov (FlyDubai). But last week FlyDubai began cancelling flights to Kharkov so I have to rebook my flights on short notice. My new flight schedule is Perth -> Hong Kong (Cathay Pacific), Hong Kong -> Moscow (Aeroflot), Moscow -> Kharkov (Aeroflot). I am not too keen on the new flight schedule as it is an extra 8-9 hours compared to the original flight schedule. I have never flown Aeroflot before, I hope the service will be up to the standard of other major international airlines.

The flight from Moscow to Kharkov will be interesting to say the least. I suspect there will be fewer passengers on that flight given the current entry restrictions into Ukraine from Russia. It wouldn't surprise me if my fellow passengers on that flight largely consist of dodgy FSB guys, Cossacks and other provocateurs. I am hoping that the in-flight entertainment on Aeroflot does not entirely consist of news broadcast from Russian state run TV, otherwise I may need to use the supplied vomit bag.

So far it looks like Kharkov has largely avoided civil unrest so it should be safe to go there. I have no doubt Mila will do her best to keep me safe over there. Until I leave for the trip I will monitor the news and be prepared to pull the pin on the trip if the situation in Kharkov deteriorates. When I have some spare time over there, I will try to update this post to give an outlook of the situation in Kharkov. On the dating side of the equation, I don't know how much the current unrest in Ukraine will hinder my chances in meeting a genuine lady.

[steveh1155]

Hey sleepycat -


I'm headed to Kyiv in 3 weeks right after the May 25th election to meet my fiancee and I'm hoping things remain calm there as well. According to my fiancee, things in central Ukraine have remained pretty much business as usual, however it could quickly change before the election & I realize I'll need to be flexible with my plans in that regard.


I'll be looking for your updates. just keep a low profile and don't go flashing your passport around!
Stay safe and best of luck on your trip!

[Muzh]

Hi there,

In about ten days time I will be going to Kharkov for three weeks to meet several UW from that city. This will be my third trip to that city and again I will be relying on Mila's help while I am over there. I originally booked the plane tickets for this trip in late December last year, when it was still relatively peaceful over there.

Originally my flight schedule was Perth -> Dubai (Emirates) and then Dubai -> Kharkov (FlyDubai). But last week FlyDubai began cancelling flights to Kharkov so I have to rebook my flights on short notice. My new flight schedule is Perth -> Hong Kong (Cathay Pacific), Hong Kong -> Moscow (Aeroflot), Moscow -> Kharkov (Aeroflot). I am not too keen on the new flight schedule as it is an extra 8-9 hours compared to the original flight schedule. I have never flown Aeroflot before, I hope the service will be up to the standard of other major international airlines.

The flight from Moscow to Kharkov will be interesting to say the least. I suspect there will be fewer passengers on that flight given the current entry restrictions into Ukraine from Russia. It wouldn't surprise me if my fellow passengers on that flight largely consist of dodgy FSB guys, Cossacks and other provocateurs. I am hoping that the in-flight entertainment on Aeroflot does not entirely consist of news broadcast from Russian state run TV, otherwise I may need to use the supplied vomit bag.

So far it looks like Kharkov has largely avoided civil unrest so it should be safe to go there. I have no doubt Mila will do her best to keep me safe over there. Until I leave for the trip I will monitor the news and be prepared to pull the pin on the trip if the situation in Kharkov deteriorates. When I have some spare time over there, I will try to update this post to give an outlook of the situation in Kharkov. On the dating side of the equation, I don't know how much the current unrest in Ukraine will hinder my chances in meeting a genuine lady.

Lay low. Don't bring attention to yourself. If you see some young thugs guys following you, quickly find a big group of people or a crowded store and go in there. Whatever you do, do NOT let Mila out of your eyesight. And above all, DO NOT GO OUT AT NIGHT. Practice playing dumb and very ignorant. Thugs are out in search of CIA, MI6 NGOs to beat up.


Good luck and have fun.

[Daveman]

On the dating side of the equation, I don't know how much the current unrest in Ukraine will hinder my chances in meeting a genuine lady.

That's the million dollar question at the moment.  Certainly one may still travel there and probably remain in relative safety unless, of course, an invasion occurs (though I imagine you'll be asked often what you and your fellow countrymen think about the current situation) - but it is difficult to imagine how the current uncertainty will affect any potential normal development of relations.  I don't see how it could be a positive for those just meeting.  Good luck with it. 

It will definitely be interesting to hear your first hand perspective.

[XMan]

Nothing more exciting than traveling to a city where the mayor was recently shot.

Regardless, just posted in another thread, but my friend Oleg who is originally from Kharkov says many areas of the city are entirely unsafe at night.  I would use extreme caution.

While you are there, I would have no opinion about anything.  Oleg's friends fall on both sides of the fence, and each believes the other is 100% wrong and lying about everything.  So I would say as little as possible and decline comment completely if asked. 

I am skeptical about ever finding a legitimate woman in Kharkov, regardless of circumstances.   
But I guess almost anything is possible.

Unrelated, but another friend of mine, in far western Ukraine, is talking about changing his last name (which is Russian) to his wife's last name (Ukrainian).  I think he is actually serious.  And no, he is not a right wing extremist / fascist / Nazi.  He is ex-Soviet army from just a couple of years prior to the breakup.  He has extreme hatred for Putin, there is no question about that.  Many of his friends are boycotting Russian anything --- beer, whatever, doesn't matter. 

I guess my point is that it will be easy to accidentally antagonize anyone, thus the advice of never have an opinion on anything.  I also recommend wearing mostly black and looking pissed off.  Well, maybe that just works for me.

Good luck.

[sleepycat]

XMAN, did your friend say which parts of the city is unsafe at night? Is it the downtown areas or in areas outside of the city centre?

I am skeptical about ever finding a legitimate woman in Kharkov, regardless of circumstances.   
But I guess almost anything is possible.

Did you previously had a bad experience in Kharkov? I know that Odessa has that reputation of having insincere women (add arsonists to that list now), so I am interested in what do you mean by your above quote.

[Maxx2]

  Many of his friends are boycotting Russian anything --- beer, whatever, doesn't matter. 

[/size]Here in America they stoned dachshunds during World War 1 and sauerkraut became known as liberty cabbage. People lose all sense during times like this. It's every man's hand against his brother. [size=78%]

[XMan]

XMAN, did your friend say which parts of the city is unsafe at night? Is it the downtown areas or in areas outside of the city centre?

Did you previously had a bad experience in Kharkov? I know that Odessa has that reputation of having insincere women (add arsonists to that list now), so I am interested in what do you mean by your above quote.

From what Oleg was telling me, various locations throughout the city.  Sorry I cannot be more specific, as he was not so with me.  Thugs are using the unrest as an excuse or cover for non-political attacks / robbery / etc., in addition to some anti-American anti-EU sentiments in general.  I'd avoid walking alone, try to blend in, etc.  No point in being paranoid, but I would certainly be careful and aware. 

Visited Kharkov several times.  Made a couple of good friends, but wasted time with several agencies there.  Was not scammed, technically, but realized I was wasting my time the first time around, blew off some meetings, tried other agencies and even met a few acquaintances of friends on another trip, but it was largely moot. 

Sure, there may be some legitimate non-agency ladies you might meet.  But I think it's similar to Odessa.  Perhaps a decade ago things were different.  But from my perspective foreigners are just marks.  Your mileage may vary.  For that matter, I know a gentleman in CA who met and married a woman who really was an actual doctor in Ukraine, and met her on Anastasia, so to me that is proof that apparently anything can happen.  They have been together over three years.  She discovered that when she could not make it for a chat session they had "broken camera events" or other technology "problems" and had someone pretend to be her.  She was afraid to tell him until after they met in person, understandably.  I still think they are both fantastically lucky.  Had he found out, his trust would have vanished, and he would have missed out.  Sic vita est.

Again, this is only my opinion from my experiences.  But from what I've seen, the larger the city, the less likely you are to be successful.  In the less traveled areas I believe you are more likely to meet someone who hasn't been infected by agency disease.  Or, in a smaller city you may actually find a legitimate agency who actually knows something about the women they have as clients.  It does happen.   

Safe travels.

[sleepycat]

The plan is to have initial meetings with women introduced by Mila and see how things go, rather than meeting agency girls.
Does that greatly limit the choice compared to picking from the agency catalogue? Sure it does.
But it's better to not find a match and return home empty handed rather than to meet a time waster.

[Shadow]

Get insurance to obtain refund in case of cancellation of the trip.
In general I would not advise anyone who does not need to travel or already has a relationship to go to Ukraine at this time.
Even in areas where there is no news the situation is tense and one single word could get you in trouble.

It is highly doubtful the election are going to be held at all, and if they will how it will contribute to improving the current situation.
Do not be fooled: this is a civil war and not far from what is going on in Syria.

As for how it will influence the dating situation, there will be a lot more women wanting out. Which makes it harder to find a good match, as many will just have a mule in mind.

[northkape]

I'm going back to Ukraine again next week,,,

And personally I'm not worried at all,, life goes on as usual there.
If it wasn't for the news and media, you would never notice anything at all.

For me, and the woman I am meeting also,,
we have better things to do,, than wasting our time,,
discussing or worrying about a war that most probably, will never happen.

If I were engaged in Ukraine in such a way, that I could have an influence on the situation.
I would be more interested in participating,
but as it is, I'm a passive bystander that can only watch it all unfold over time....

Well, I'm not going to the places where the conflicts are present,,
but to my present woman in "safe and cosy" Kiev,,
 
However I'm also planning a trip to Kharkov, to meet with a software developer,,
will see what happens,, smile

[Shadow]

I'm going back to Ukraine again next week,,,

And personally I'm not worried at all,, life goes on as usual there.
If it wasn't for the news and media, you would never notice anything at all.

For me, and the woman I am meeting also,,
we have better things to do,, than wasting our time,,
discussing or worrying about a war that most probably, will never happen.

If I were engaged in Ukraine in such a way, that I could have an influence on the situation.
I would be more interested in participating,
but as it is, I'm a passive bystander that can only watch it all unfold over time....

Well, I'm not going to the places where the conflicts are present,,
but to my present woman in "safe and cosy" Kiev,,
 
However I'm also planning a trip to Kharkov, to meet with a software developer,,
will see what happens,, smile

Good luck, you will need it.

[sleepycat]

I bought travel insurance months ago so that issue is covered. When my original flight schedule from Dubai to Kharkov was cancelled, the airline refunded me so I didn't have to claim from travel insurance.

Today I read something about upcoming flights into Kharkov being cancelled.
http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/state-aviation-service-russian-flights-to-donetsk-kharkiv-suspended-until-stabilization-346429.html
So I did a search on Expedia for the Moscow to Kharkov flight (Aeroflot flight 1810) that I will be using on 16 May...
It looks like this flight is cancelled from now until 12 May, but the flight on 16 May appears to be going ahead.
So far there is no official notification from Expedia about the statue of the flight on 16 May.
I guess now it's a matter of waiting to see if the trip is going ahead or not...

[Patagonie]

From what Oleg was telling me, various locations throughout the city.  Sorry I cannot be more specific, as he was not so with me.  Thugs are using the unrest as an excuse or cover for non-political attacks / robbery / etc., in addition to some anti-American anti-EU sentiments in general.  I'd avoid walking alone, try to blend in, etc.  No point in being paranoid, but I would certainly be careful and aware. 

Visited Kharkov several times.  Made a couple of good friends, but wasted time with several agencies there.  Was not scammed, technically, but realized I was wasting my time the first time around, blew off some meetings, tried other agencies and even met a few acquaintances of friends on another trip, but it was largely moot. 

Sure, there may be some legitimate non-agency ladies you might meet.  But I think it's similar to Odessa.  Perhaps a decade ago things were different.  But from my perspective foreigners are just marks.  Your mileage may vary.  For that matter, I know a gentleman in CA who met and married a woman who really was an actual doctor in Ukraine, and met her on Anastasia, so to me that is proof that apparently anything can happen.  They have been together over three years.  She discovered that when she could not make it for a chat session they had "broken camera events" or other technology "problems" and had someone pretend to be her.  She was afraid to tell him until after they met in person, understandably.  I still think they are both fantastically lucky.  Had he found out, his trust would have vanished, and he would have missed out.  Sic vita est.

Again, this is only my opinion from my experiences.  But from what I've seen, the larger the city, the less likely you are to be successful.  In the less traveled areas I believe you are more likely to meet someone who hasn't been infected by agency disease.  Or, in a smaller city you may actually find a legitimate agency who actually knows something about the women they have as clients.  It does happen.   

Safe travels.

I have a quite different experience about the Kharkov's dating scene.
I found real honest agencies here, but i choose them carefully.
And i always extremely care to always take the control of my meetings, never being controlled by anyone.

Newbie, welcome.
However i would have reconsider my whole travel by relocating it in Lviv, for example. Kharkov is one of the city jeopardized par the russian threat. You need to understand that you are not only dating, it is possible that you will be married with such Kharkov girl. I let you imagine if during the process the city becomes russian, all the mess for the marriage documents.
Strategically, as you have never been there, it would have been better to aim an other location, because you have no antecedent with any ladies here.

[sleepycat]

Trip in real doubt now..
Yesterday I found out the Aeroflot flight from Moscow to Kharkov on 16th May is cancelled. I had my suspicions so I rang Expedia who confirmed the flight is cancelled. Expedia said they will contact Aeroflot to see if they can arrange alternative flights and let me know within 24 hours. It is so nice to see that Aeroflot thinks it is appropriate to wait for the customer to find out for themselves the flight is cancelled, rather than initiate contact with the customer to let them know of the flight status. Bloody third world country fourth rated airline! From now on I will avoid Aeroflot like the plague.
I doubt there is another Aeroflot flight that can get me to Kharkov so I am hoping they are quick with the refund. My remaining option now is to fly from Perth to Kiev and catch another flight from Kiev into Kharkov.

[southernX]

sleepy cat ,

have you thought about into paris /rome  then kiev ?? take the train to kharkiv , or ask your lady to meet you in kharkiv  and travel with her .. it also not bad , possibly mila can organise this for you also ?

flying out of perth , stick with emirates if you can or air france /singapore airlines , etc

sleepy, id also re check with DFAT in australia  re travel warnings to ukraine and kharkiv oblast , pretty sure your travel insurance wont be worth squat if you do go there , also bear in mind there is no australian embassy in ukraine , closest is moscow ,

take photo copys of passport /drivers licence etc with you in a safe place, also keep a second variant to access money in case you wallet is stolen etc

dress like a european , short haircut slip on shoes, collared shirt, good trousers , etc keep quiet and low key ,

if your able , buy/wear a small australian logo on your shirt etc,[get one at perth airport ]  we have a pretty good reputation internationaly , but it does help for others to see it , funny how differnt you can get treated if people think your an american or english lol [no offence guys ]

id agree with muzh and xman re their suggestions 

having been there a lot , it has always been safe and enjoyable city , however these are very different times to any other , so take care ,be wary ,  keep safe and make a back up plan to keep yourself secure and safe in your travels with documents, money , give family a travel itinery etc


SX

[sleepycat]

just an idea , but have you looked at flying into dubai [from australia its 11 hours approx ], then direct onto kharkiv ?? only 4.5 hours

The Perth -> Dubai -> Kharkov route was the schedule I had originally booked months ago.
But last week FlyDubai cancelled the Dubai to Kharkov route so I was forced to rebook with Aeroflot.
FlyDubai/Emirates was very quick with the refund so I've already got my money back from them.
Now lets hope Aeroflot is as quick with handing money back as they were with taking the money in the first place.

[southernX]

sleepy ,
 sorry mate i edited my above poSt after reading your original 

i see you had already got the good oil on the direct route out of perth 

But last week FlyDubai cancelled the Dubai to Kharkov route so I was forced to rebook with Aeroflot.

yeh probably as this route direct to kharkiv from dubai would take them across potentialy dangerous flight paths of the south east ukraine , unstable situation better to avoid it for them no doubt
SX

[JayH]

Book flight to Dubai as  a unit.
Book seperate flight  Dubai on

UiA is cheap -- and via Kiev mostly.  ( maybe via Istanbul)
This will get you close if not to Kharkov.Try for all the way as cost of add on Kiev-Kharkov is close to free if booked as above.
Should be cheaper than what you planned!!

[sleepycat]

You're right. The UIA return flight from Kiev to Kharkov is not expensive, around $230 the last time I checked.
In the current climate I don't think there will be a shortage of seats for that flight.
There are plenty of flight options from Perth to Kiev, it will just be a matter of finding one with the least amount of layover time.
Hopefully today Expedia will let me know if they can find an alternative flight for me or if Aeroflot is going to give a refund.

[JayH]

I have price of $423   Dubai-Kharkov  ---- via Kiev. I think that is ok price.
Having a problem to find cheap Perth-Dubai ( about $1300 ish)-- can do much better out of Melbourne.
Some of the bigger Aus site offer bettering any price deal-- so if you want to book thru them it is possible !!  You find a price-then show them where etc.

What some of this does is make some delays to connecting flights-- but that is not the end of the world if it means you can arrive at more user friendly time of the day.
Ok--he is what I like to do-- I use frequent flyer points to get to Dubai or Istanbul.  To return to Australia--I buy return tickets from Istanbul--that direction is much cheaper than from Australia.( works to UK also) . Then buy return or one way to Ukraine destination. Flights from Ukraine are looking very well priced at the moment( eg   Dnipropetrovsk-Istanbul $107.
Incidentally--Ist-Mel about $1000-$1100 ish  often. Also many specials.
The key is to not book whoa to go via one system--mix and match!!the reality is--even if it goes array in transit-- even if you have to buy a flight out--it is still cheaper!!

ps-- even if flight only got you to Kiev at this time--then other ways are possible to get to Kharkov.

[Slumba]

What about Kiev, then ground transport or train after that?  Seems less difficult, slightly more time but less worry.

[stilllooking]

spleepycat, if you are going to try to make the trip, check very carefully that this:
http://smartraveller.gov.au/zw-cgi/view/Advice/ukraine

does not affect your travel insurance.

[sleepycat]

Finally sorted out my new travel arrangement...

Yesterday phoned Expedia, who told me Aeroflot has agreed to a full refund. I was actually surprised that Aeroflot has agreed to refund so readily. But how long it will take for the money to go back on my credit card is another matter I suppose.

My new flight schedule is Perth -> Singapore (Singapore Airlines), Singapore -> Paris (Air France), Paris -> Kiev (Air France). Then catch the UIA flight from Kiev to Kharkov. Total travelling time from Perth to Kharkov will be quite long, almost a day & a half. Searching Expedia I did see a KLM/Malaysian Airlines combo for the return journey which is slightly cheaper, but as I didn't want to end up in the Indian Ocean I decided to skip it. Thanks JayH & SouthernX for the alternative flight suggestions.

Just one little thing that is bothering me. When I went to the Air France website to choose the seat for my flights, I noticed for the Singapore -> Paris flight, they haven't allocated me a seat number and on the little map of the plane there is no vacant seats showing. Does this means I am on standby for that flight or are they going to bump me up to business class? The flight schedule Expedia emailed me says that I am definitely confirmed for all the flights.

So far DFAT has not put a 'Do not travel' tag on Kharkov oblast, fingers cross it stays that way. Also Mila told me it is safe and things are normal in her city.

dress like a european , short haircut slip on shoes, collared shirt, good trousers , etc keep quiet and low key ,

A bit difficult since I am Asian. Well at least the pro-Russian dicks wont confuse me with being an American/EU fascist!

[CDW]

 Also Mila told me it is safe and things are normal in her city.
 

Still no guarnatee it will be safe when you visit.  Hope it won't happen.   Have a great WOVO trip !!