The Russian Invasion of Ukraine-The Real Nazis

[Shadow]

My "kool aid" includes the most recent poll, taken after the terrorists seized power.  In the regions occupied, no more than 35% support for separation.  Ever.  I linked it here somewhere.


What have you got?

Reality.
The poll you linked to was made in March. Apart from that the questioning of the poll influences the outcome, I doubt there is anyone in Ukraine who has the same opinion as they had in March.

[Boethius]

No, I linked one after the invasion as well, which found approximately 35% support, and noted support has never been higher than that.  I also linked an online poll, which had an even lower outcome. 

[Boethius]

The ideas of Stalin are sill alive.
Lets remove people from their birth ground because of their opinions.
Well ok... lets agree on this on the condition that every person who likes the US is given a green card and job, no questions asked.

Is having a foreign power fund a false "revolution" very far from Stalinism?  At least Stalin used local leaders as the faces of his "nascent" communist movements.

[Shadow]

No, I linked one after the invasion as well, which found approximately 35% support, and noted support has never been higher than that.  I also linked an online poll, which had an even lower outcome.

After which invasion?

[Shadow]

Is having a foreign power fund a false "revolution" very far from Stalinism?  At least Stalin used local leaders as the faces of his "nascent" communist movements.

I guess that you wish people to move from where they were born in order to get more space for those who hail war criminals. So be it.

[Boethius]

After which invasion?

The invasion by Russian separatists.  The last poll I linked (can't recall where) was done in June, and it stated that support has remained steady at 35%.

[Boethius]

I guess that you wish people to move from where they were born in order to get more space for those who hail war criminals. So be it.

No, I didn't state I wanted people to move anywhere.  I just commented on the note about Stalinist tactics.

[Gator]

The ideas of Stalin are sill alive.
Lets remove people from their birth ground because of their opinions.

Who said they  would be removed involuntarily?  Russia wants to protect Russian speaking people in foreign lands.  If Russian speakers do not like Ukraine and prefer Russia,  allow them to emigrate voluntarily to Russia.

BTW, it is already happening.  From CNN today:

"The U.N. refugee agency, the UNHCR, said Tuesday that the Russian authorities estimate that around 730,000 Ukrainians have sought sanctuary in Russia this year under a visa-free travel program. This includes more than 168,000 who have reported to Russia's Federal Migration Service.

Russia's state-run news agency Itar-Tass reported Tuesday that Russia has set up 585 temporary camps to house the fleeing Ukrainians. More than 42,400 people are staying there, including about 15,000 children, it said."

Well ok... lets agree on this on the condition that every person who likes the US is given a green card and job, no questions asked.

Your analogy has a huge mistake.    There is no country on earth where the USA is supporting a rebellion by an English-speaking minority against that country's government, intending to separate part of that country's sovereign territory and annex it to the USA

OTOH, this is exactly what Russia and Russian speakers and descendants are doing in Ukraine.  And Ukraine is fighting this heavily armed rebellion.

[Gator]

Are you certain Ukraine's war costs are paid by other countries?

I would hope so. If not the billions given have already landed in the pockets of the current government.

Everything I have read says the Ukrainian coffers were empty well before the war started.  Add a war, and the country is flat broke, flatter than a mule's fanny.   In fact, citizens are being asked to contribute money directly to the war effort.   Some wounded soldiers can not get the surgery they need to recover. 


So what exactly is your source saying countries are giving billions for the war effort?   

[Misha]

So what exactly is your source saying countries are giving billions for the war effort?   

It took months after the fighting started for the United States to donate night vision goggles and better bullet proof vests. That amounted to a pittance in terms of American military spending and far from billions of dollars of support. If the United States planned this all along, you would think that somebody would have thought of providing some basic military supplies at least a few weeks in advance...

[lordtiberius]

Gator is pro-Putin?

[Gator]

Gator is pro-Putin?

No.

[LiveFromUkraine]

I would hope so. If not the billions given have already landed in the pockets of the current government.




Everything I have read says the Ukrainian coffers were empty well before the war started.  Add a war, and the country is flat broke, flatter than a mule's fanny.   In fact, citizens are being asked to contribute money directly to the war effort.   Some wounded soldiers can not get the surgery they need to recover. 


So what exactly is your source saying countries are giving billions for the war effort?   

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2014/03/why-is-the-u-s-sending-1-billion-to-ukraine/


Where do you think money will go too if not the war effort?

[BillyB]

After which invasion?

If you didn't like the little one that happened, maybe you'll like the one coming up. Putin wants east Ukraine if not all of it. Always had, always will.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/08/05/us-officials-warn-russian-troops-could-move-quickly-against-ukraine-report-says/?intcmp=latestnews

[BillyB]

Russia says there is an urgent humanitarian situation in Ukraine and they are ready to help. Tanks will solve the problems there and ease everyone's pain.


http://finance.yahoo.com/news/russia-calls-emergency-un-security-182320732.html

[BillyB]

Who knows? Putin may just be wasting taxpayers money by sending all those troops to the border.

[lordtiberius]

He is invincible!

[lonedrake]

Where do you think money will go too if not the war effort?

Lets hope it goes to the military......not just pocketed by the corrupt politicians.

MREs that were given for the soldiers were sold and given away to others. My wife was very upset when she saw ordinary citizens in her small city eating them.That is just one of the small ways the corrupt are profiting.

There is talk once the army has cleared out the separatists.....they will then turn their attention to Kiev.

[lordtiberius]

It's not our fault your stupid plane ran into our rocket!



duh!

[southernX]

Churkin said Russia wants to send a humanitarian convoy to Luhansk and Donetsk under the auspices of the International Committee of the Red Cross.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/UN_UNITED_NATIONS_UKRAINE_RUSSIA?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

here may lie putins  next move 
question is what will ukraines response be ?


SX

[Boethius]

It appears Ukraine has stated there is no humanitarian crisis.


I don't think sending the Red Cross in is a bad idea, provided Russian troops and the Russian government are not involved. 


Perhaps the US ambassador should counter with an international UN peacekeeping force.  That would stop the humanitarian crisis immediately, if accepted by both sides.

[I/O]

an international UN peacekeeping force.

Agreed.

[GQBlues]

Lets hope it goes to the military......not just pocketed by the corrupt politicians.

MREs that were given for the soldiers were sold and given away to others. My wife was very upset when she saw ordinary citizens in her small city eating them.That is just one of the small ways the corrupt are profiting.

There is talk once the army has cleared out the separatists.....they will then turn their attention to Kiev.

That's old news. That's been happening since April....

http://time.com/45253/ukraine-corruption-tymoshenko-kiev/

The U.S. Congress needs to seriously re-evaluate appropriations for all aid — humanitarian, lethal, and non-lethal — if not end the foolish program altogether. There needs to be more investigations and reporting over the government agencies that provide foreign assistance. It’s not the job of the federal government to provide welfare for the world.

LOL!

http://www.conservativeactionalerts.com/2014/04/foreign-aid-at-work-us-mre-meals-given-to-ukraine-being-sold-illegaly-online/

It's OK. It's Kiev, you can't expect this old habit to die any time soon.

[Anotherkiwi]

I'm looking at it more from the point of view of a proper UN peacekeeping force, rather than troops being sent under their national flags, which I agree would almost certainly inflame the situation in both countries.  Whatever their feelings towards "the West," combatants on all sides in recent conflicts seem to have more respect for the UN's objectives than they do towards (for example) American troops operating under the US flag.

It appears Ukraine has stated there is no humanitarian crisis.


I don't think sending the Red Cross in is a bad idea, provided Russian troops and the Russian government are not involved. 


Perhaps the US ambassador should counter with an international UN peacekeeping force.  That would stop the humanitarian crisis immediately, if accepted by both sides.

Agreed.

I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one pushing this particular barrow - just a shame that the rest of the world hasn't followed suit.

[Faux Pas]

I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one pushing this particular barrow - just a shame that the rest of the world hasn't followed suit.

IMHO, the UN peace keepers would accomplish exactly dick.