Ukraine-The Future

[Изумруд]

"With cash and food resources dwindling, local administrators in the eastern 'Donetsk People's Republic' are struggling with day-to-day issues of survival – and bitter residents."........................“If we don’t have any help from Russia and this isn’t solved in March, there will be a social explosion here,” warns Olga Gregoriyeva, another local administrator. “People are fainting from hunger.”


http://news.yahoo.com/rebel-held-ukraine-hotline-calls-soar-government-flails-135741388.html

[BillyB]

"With cash and food resources dwindling, local administrators in the eastern 'Donetsk People's Republic' are struggling with day-to-day issues of survival – and bitter residents."........................“If we don’t have any help from Russia and this isn’t solved in March, there will be a social explosion here,” warns Olga Gregoriyeva, another local administrator. “People are fainting from hunger.”

What do you mean they're hungry? Russia has sent plenty of stuff over there. They don't like the taste of tanks, missiles and Russian soldiers?


I'm sure if they picked up a gun and joined the rebels instead of being peaceful innocent bystanders, Russia will feed them well.

[Belvis]

Steamer, have you any personal experience with the Azov? I know several, and they are just like you and me, committed to protecting their homeland against the Russian invaders.

Friends of Mendy from Azov:




Of course, not everybody in Azov shares Nazi views. Nevertheless I'm supprised Mendy considers himself just like Azov soldiers. Though he's correct formally, Nazi also tried to  protect their homeland against the Russian invaders in WWII. 

[jone]

Friends of Mendy from Azov:




Of course, not everybody in Azov shares Nazi views. Nevertheless I'm supprised Mendy considers himself just like Azov soldiers. Though he's correct formally, Nazi also tried to  protect their homeland against the Russian invaders in WWII.

Nicely staged pictures, Belvis.  Exactly the type we would expect you to have in your possession.

[Boethius]

A report on the Azov Battalion

[mendeleyev]

Belvis, I consider those men to be just like you, too. In any group, there are bound to be some nut cases--shall we poll the nation of Russia? You'd be embarrassed.

As for the photos that have been making the rounds on Russian social media, it is truly odd that they aren't being promoted by the supposed fascists in Ukraine. I find it interesting that Russians can stage those kinds of things so quickly. Too quickly, and that is scary.

[Boethius]

Of course Russia can stage these things quickly.  They need to save Ukrainians from themselves.

[Boethius]

"With cash and food resources dwindling, local administrators in the eastern 'Donetsk People's Republic' are struggling with day-to-day issues of survival – and bitter residents."........................“If we don’t have any help from Russia and this isn’t solved in March, there will be a social explosion here,” warns Olga Gregoriyeva, another local administrator. “People are fainting from hunger.”


http://news.yahoo.com/rebel-held-ukraine-hotline-calls-soar-government-flails-135741388.html

Interesting.  So the heaven on earth created by the DNR/LPR leaders has yet to take hold. 
 
 

[Steamer]

Nicely staged pictures, Belvis.  Exactly the type we would expect you to have in your possession.

What makes you say these photos are staged?

[jone]

Begin with the third one.  That is a photoshopped head on the guy to the left.  The guy to the right is indeterminate.

The second one has no one who can be identified.  Intentionally blacked out. 

The first one could be real.  But based on what we have seen from Russia, such as the photoshopped location of the Buk Missile location in the shoot down of the jet, one would think that this was probably falsified too.

All in all, Belvis has come on here and repeatedly given the official Russian talking points.  I have grown to be somewhat suspicious of things that come from Official Russian Sources.  Haven't you?

I am also not very inclined to believe stuff I see coming from official Ukrainian Sources.

My personal opinion is that I am much more inclined to believe Mendy than either 'official source'.  Now, if Belvis could point to some third party source that doesn't proclaim Ukraine to be full of Nazis, as Russia has done since last year, then I might believe him.    But now?  No way.

My affections have always been with the Russian people.  But in my conversations with them, more and more are determining that they are being lied to by their government.  Married to a Russian woman, Steamer, I would think that you would be coming to the same conclusion - that much of what is being fed to the native Russian population is far from the actual truth. 

Looking at this objectively, I see that Russia is trying to exert its will over Ukraine.  All the news stories, truthful or otherwise coming from Russia, are designed to support this official line of thought.

[Steamer]

Begin with the third one.  That is a photoshopped head on the guy to the left.  The guy to the right is indeterminate.

The second one has no one who can be identified.  Intentionally blacked out. 

The first one could be real.  But based on what we have seen from Russia, such as the photoshopped location of the Buk Missile location in the shoot down of the jet, one would think that this was probably falsified too.

[/size]I can't see it but I admit that this is over my head.

[/size]All in all, Belvis has come on here and repeatedly given the official Russian talking points.  I have grown to be somewhat suspicious of things that come from Official Russian Sources.
[/size]I am also not very inclined to believe stuff I see coming from official Ukrainian Sources.

I can also add that I don't trust western sources either. It seems that everyone has a reason to deceive their own population.

Looking at this objectively, I see that Russia is trying to exert its will over Ukraine.  All the news stories, truthful or otherwise coming from Russia, are designed to support this official line of thought.

And the US trying to exert its will over UA and Russia.

[Boethius]

Please advise how the US has tried to exert its will over Ukraine.

[AkMike]

Not just the US, Steamer. Most of the UN is also hoping that Russia will mind it's manners for a change.

[Steamer]

Please advise how the US has tried to exert its will over Ukraine.

Money buys influence.

[Hammer2722]

Money buys influence.

Wow, could anyone be more specific than you? 
Another Puntinist talking out of his popka!

[Boethius]

Money buys influence.

What type of influence?  Who in Ukraine is subject to US hegemony?
 
 

[BillyB]

Every nation has Nazis and Communists similar to Hitler and Stalin. Ukraine is no different but I don't think it's a big problem. It wasn't a problem when Russian puppet president Yanukovych was running the country. In the below link are the key points in the Minsk agreement Putin, rebels, and Ukraine fought for as told by a pro Russian source RT. Nowhere does it say Ukraine must put a stop to Nazis harassing ethnic Russians. If Putin doesn't have a problem and it isn't worth fighting for, it must not exist for Russia.


http://rt.com/news/231667-minsk-ceasefire-deal-breakup/


As far as photos go, Russia/USSR were playing with photos for propaganda purposes before Photoshop existed. I'm still trying to figure out the two below.

[fathertime]

Money buys influence.

Yes it can. We did give billions so it is hard to figure out exactly who/what it was about...but I seriously doubt it was out of the kindness of our hearts.


Fathertime!   

[BillyB]

Yes it can. We did give billions so it is hard to figure out exactly who/what it was about...but I seriously doubt it was out of the kindness of our hearts.


Fathertime!

Russian puppet president Yanukovych was very friendly with America before he got ousted. He even talked with Joe Biden often to get advice on how to weather a growing revolution. If America encouraged hostilities with money we sent over there, I don't think Yanu would be talking to America.


Sometimes I wonder why we give billions to the bad boys in Iran. We gamble the money in hopes they give up their nuclear ambitions but if they do, it'll make the world a safer place. Sometimes I wonder why we feed millions of North Koreans. We gamble that food in hopes we see change for the better in North Korea. We give an insane amount of foreign aid to many countries in the world.


I was in an engineering unit in the US Army. Half my unit went to Bolivia to build a school in a hostile environment for disadvantaged kids. After finishing the project and leaving back to America, we learned a Bolivian drug lord took the school over to conduct his business in. We don't always get good value for our investments. I suspect much of the American money sent to Ukraine was to help Ukrainians, build infrastructure, and encourage democracy, not put weapons in their hands to overthrow their government. With those facts, I think they're reasons Yanukovych was comfortable talking to America and asking for our advice.

[lordtiberius]

Friends of Mendy from Azov:




Of course, not everybody in Azov shares Nazi views. Nevertheless I'm supprised Mendy considers himself just like Azov soldiers. Though he's correct formally, Nazi also tried to  protect their homeland against the Russian invaders in WWII.

Good point.

Will you also say that there are Nazis in the Russian ranks?

[Steamer]

What type of influence?  Who in Ukraine is subject to US hegemony?

For the $5 bil. we've spent so far the Rada would probably give congress a lap dance.

[Boethius]

Well, they didn't.  In fact, they maintained strong relations with Russia during the time most of that $5 billion was expended.  Moreover, most of that money was used for civic action and educational projects.

[Steamer]

Wow, could anyone be more specific than you? 
Another Puntinist talking out of his popka!

And for $5 more they'd get a happy ending.

[AC]

Money buys influence.

Good point.  Russia has never tried to buy influence in Ukraine, now have they?   

[Steamer]

Good point.  Russia has never tried to buy influence in Ukraine, now have they?   

Not hard enough.