More Bad News for Russia

[fathertime]

I am posting what I want to post and NOT what you or "men in their 30s through 70s "
want to read.
I asked for evidence- you in a typical American manner "put me on ignore".
Dare to provide the evidence?
Department of States doesn't have the evidence. I read almost all of its briefings.
So, just a reminder- nobody tells me what to write here, got it?

Very good Doll!!  It is hilarious when people tearfully and publicly announce that they are ignoring you, rather than just doing it without the fanfare.  Maybe hone is waiting for a round if applause.

 You are completely correct to give your viewpoint,  whether some of these members want to hear it or not. It would seem for some your dissent is not tolerable.

Fathertime!

[Doll]

Belvis and I are the only "opposing" Russians on this board. We know both sides of the propaganda or information (whatever you want to call it).
I bet nobody here besides me read Department of States briefings. I do.
Every time there are questions to provide the evidence - the journalists are basically ignored (like "next question please").
Or they refer to YouTube or Facebook.

[jone]

I have read about 20000 dead Russian soldiers. 
As a matter of fact there are some facts to talk about 21 Russian men in service who may be killed in Ukraina on mission.

So, you've discounted all of those fresh graves from the 76th Paratroopers in Pskov.   (Two days after the funerals, the FSB came through and pulled off all of the grave markers.  I wonder why!)   

Hey, it's not my country!  And I, like most other investors, took a hit and pulled my investments out of your land.  But only 21 deaths?  Quite honestly, the more you post, the more you sound like the trolls who appear on these websites to dispute everything negative said about Russia.  Were you to give an honest evaluation, from a Russian point of view, and you sound like a smart guy, then you would have much more credibility.  Even if you are a paid troll.

[Muzh]

Poroshenko is killing his countrymates, Yanukonvict killed nobody

Again, you must be very confused. Russians are killing Ukrainians.


Last I saw, Poroshenko is Ukrainian.


Funny, the last conversation my MIL had with her brother who lives in Omsk, HE stated he was so furious that he would pick up a gun and fight the NAZI junta. Then his sister told him that there is NO NAZI junta and that she is on the side of the government. Then she asked him point blank if he would go to Kharkiv and kill her. He implied he would.


This is what your Ministry of Propaganda is doing, dear.

[Doll]

Again, you must be very confused. Russians are killing Ukrainians.


Last I saw, Poroshenko is Ukrainian.


 

Evidence?

[Muzh]

This morning I saw an interesting business interview with Tom Friedman (author of The World is Flat), Foreign Affairs columnist with the NY Times.  He is a bold liberal.

Heh, if you truly believe this, then I'm afraid to ask your definition of a Conservative.  Yeee ikes!

[Muzh]

Evidence?

He is the President, isn't he?


Am I under the misconception that the Ukraine Constitution allows only Ukrainian citizens to be President, or did they changed that?


Any comments about my mother-in-law's brother? THAT was the opinion I wanted to hear from you.

[Muzh]

A forum dedicated to the discussion of Russian and FSU women, has been hijacked by the discussion discussion of Russian and Ukrainian politics.

Perhaps RWD, should be renamed Russian Politics Discussion.

Why don't you start a thread of Russian women's tits and asses?


Edit: It is obvious you don't buy the Playboy for its articles.

[Doll]

He is the President, isn't he?


Am I under the misconception that the Ukraine Constitution allows only Ukrainian citizens to be President, or did they changed that?


Any comments about my mother-in-law's brother? THAT was the opinion I wanted to hear from you.

Evidence of Russians killing Ukrainians.

[Muzh]

That's funny.

Doll: Where is your evidence? Show me the evidence!
Jone: Everybody knows that.  You are now on IGNORE.

Frankly speaking I have no wish to argue about RU-UA conflict because only Boethius can keep it with knowedge on the subject. Others just have no access to first hand info, and inenvitably have to tramsmitt propaganda as John does.

Oh Beavis, and you do have the knowledge on this subject just because you are Russian, right? Do you know the term Jingoism?

[Muzh]

Evidence of Russians killing Ukrainians.

Your opinion of my mother-in-law's brother.

[Doll]

Oh Beavis, and you do have the knowledge on this subject just because you are Russian, right? Do you know the term Jingoism?

He didn't' say it.

[Muzh]

He didn't' say it.

He didn't say, what?


And why you cannot give me your opinion of what my mother-in-law's brother said.

[Doll]

He didn't say, what?


 

He didn't say he knows the truth just because he is Russian.

[Muzh]

He didn't say he knows the truth just because he is Russian.

Why you refuse to answer my question?

[Muzh]

Ah yes. Maybe because you agree with her brother.

[jone]

I am going to reverse myself and include a link, here: 

http://web.archive.org/web/20140902154652/http:/gubernia.pskovregion.org/number_706/00.php

I would go to the original source, but the original source was deleted, apparently with the guy who wrote it:  The editor of the Pskov region newspaper.  I will let the article speak for itself.  I'm sure our Russian detractors will call it propaganda, as they are wont to do.  But I find the source entirely credible.  Both the editor and the young man who's tapes he received clandestinely from the returning soldiers.  Neither would have any reason to lie.  There would be no motivation. 

For those non-readers of the Russian language, in the article, one of the correspondents concludes that there were 80 dead in the early fighting to repel the UA troops.  This was clearly before the insurgence of Russian tanks and personnel that appeared less than a month later.  (I should note that the 80 dead pretty much corresponds with the new graves found in the cemetery).  The author of the tapes, who is a young paratrooper, has subsequently disappeared.

It should also be noted that any journalists who tried to find out what happened to the 76th were roughed up and told to leave the area.  Those who did not were escorted to the forest where they were beaten up pretty badly.  Ultimately, there are families of the dead who have shared about what happened.  As any truth comes out, these families, if they are revealed, are terrorized for their revelations.  This is the new Russia.

[Brasscasing]

Evidence of Russians killing Ukrainians.

Strelkov is your evidence...

Russia's Igor Strelkov: I Am Responsible for War in Eastern Ukraine

Russian Involvement

Strelkov also gave an account of the degree of Russia's involvement in the conflict in eastern Ukraine.

At the start of this summer, 90 percent of the rebel forces were made up of local residents, Strelkov was quoted as saying. However, by early August, Russian servicemen supposedly on "vacation" from the army had begun to arrive, he said.

According to Strelkov, the assault on the Black Sea town of Mariupol in September, which prompted concerns in Ukraine and the West that Russia has entered the conflict on a large scale, was conducted mostly by the Russian military "vacationers."

The rebel forces advancing on Mariupol at that time met with little resistance from government troops and "could have been taken without a fight, "but there was an order not to take it," he was quoted as saying.

While Moscow has repeatedly denied supplying the rebels with weaponry and manpower, Strelkov said the assistance offered to rebels remains significant: "I can't say that we fully provide for them. But we are really helping them," he said, noting that half of the rebel army was equipped with winter clothes sent from Russia.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/russias-igor-strelkov-i-am-responsible-for-war-in-eastern-ukraine/511584.html

Brass

[Belvis]

But only 21 deaths?  Quite honestly, the more you post, the more you sound like the trolls who appear on these websites to dispute everything negative said about Russia.  Were you to give an honest evaluation, from a Russian point of view, and you sound like a smart guy, then you would have much more credibility.  Even if you are a paid troll.

OK, may 30 deaths. I'm talking about the fresh graves you mentioned. I don't dispute everything negative said about Russia, I'm asking to show the credible sources.  Can you?
Well, the talk about trolls can't be counted for the argument, agree? 
You have refered to russian jornalists. I can't accept their writings because:

1) The main source about many-many dead Russian soldiers,  human right activist Elena Vasileva, was exposed  as a liar when she listed the names of killed soldiers. Her list turned to be  the Orenburg local football team “Gazovik” players.  Then she wrote about killed Russian combat swimmers near Mariupol and again with names. Well, she just copied the names from fantastic book of Alexander Bushkov about combat divers. You see, why the thousands dead Russian soldiers in Ukraine  have became the source for jokes in russian social network.

2) You have refered to the article of  another activist, Shlosseberg, where he presented info about russian servicemen in Ukraine. But the same source is talking about American brigade of  electronic warfare at Donbass. Will you accept that Americans GIs are taking part in figthing? 

[AC]

That's funny.

Doll: Where is your evidence? Show me the evidence!
Jone: Everybody knows that.  You are now on IGNORE.

I've got to agree with that.  The old saying about doing nothing and allowing evil to flourish comes to mind.

[jone]

OK, may 30 deaths. I'm talking about the fresh graves you mentioned. I don't dispute everything negative said about Russia, I'm asking to show the credible sources.  Can you?
Well, the talk about trolls can't be counted for the argument, agree? 
You have refered to russian jornalists. I can't accept their writings because:

1) The main source about many-many dead Russian soldiers,  human right activist Elena Vasileva, was exposed  as a liar when she listed the names of killed soldiers. Her list turned to be  the Orenburg local football team “Gazovik” players.  Then she wrote about killed Russian combat swimmers near Mariupol and again with names. Well, she just copied the names from fantastic book of Alexander Bushkov about combat divers. You see, why the thousands dead Russian soldiers in Ukraine  have became the source for jokes in russian social network.

2) You have refered to the article of  another activist, Shlosseberg, where he presented info about russian servicemen in Ukraine. But the same source is talking about American brigade of  electronic warfare at Donbass. Will you accept that Americans GIs are taking part in figthing? 

You just don't get it, do you.  You are trying to elude the fact that Russian soldiers are dying in Ukraine.  You immediately jump all over sources I have not mentioned.  Instead, give credibility to the dead.  I saw the interviews on TV of the wife of a young Russian soldier from the 76th.   Do you close your eyes to those?   These are heros of Russia.  They gave their lives for your country.  You make yourself into a troll, Belvis, by ignoring the elephant in the room.

This is a classic troll function.  Try to get the poster to identify a post and then discredit it.  You have all the markings of a paid Kremlin troll.  The simple fact is that Russian soldiers are dying. 

The other markings of a troll is to immediately say that the CIA is over in the streets outside of Donetsk.  Frankly, I don't know.  I haven't seen any evidence either way.  It wouldn't surprise me if they were.  I just don't care.  I am on record of not wanting the US to give support to Ukraine in the form of personnel.  I really believe that having US feet on the ground in Ukraine would exacerbate the situation.

But, here is where I differ with all that you say:  You say that the Western press all pushes the propaganda line.  I read countless articles of fact by many members of the British and American press and even Al Jazzera that confirm my assertions.  Your only efforts to discredit me are from heresy.  RT and even Sputnik are following the Kremlin line. 

Essentially, everyone else is wrong and Russia is right.  That is how you come across.  Whether you are paid or not, Belvis, I really don't care.  Your perspective is that of a lie. 

I put up a local newspaper from Pskov.  There was absolutely NO reason to dispute it.    You come back on here like gangbusters trying to discredit it.  That either makes you a liar or makes you crazy.  Or maybe it is just that that is your job to dispute.

[AC]

Poroshenko will be first to show up in Nuremberg

Now that would be interesting, because Poroshenko is Jewish.  In fact Ukraine's government probably has more Jews than most governments in Europe do.  So much for a "fascist junta".

[JayH]

evidence?

Jon--I post links to articles and information that most would not see  -- why?-- to avoid the sort of silly obtuse--"yes it is"-- no it isn't" type posts like Doll's above.

What is obvious to me--is that the pro-Rus   propagators don't read them--if any information that contradicts their pre-conceived ideas it is dismissed.

Really-- each and every one of you posters here who denies the obvious is really being very silly-- and a lot of forum space wasted on being kind to you.

Time for a few who post here to loo at what they were saying months ago-- and see how wrong they were then-- events are the proof.

Mende commented above that everyday Russians do not have access to contrary opinions -thus it hard for them to see the reality--but that is not the case with those on the forums--they have access but are in denial of the truth.Just being too silly for words.

[AC]

Why don't you start a thread of Russian women's tits and asses?

   (I was actually thinking along the same lines; can you believe it?)

[AC]

You just don't get it, do you.  You are trying to elude the fact that Russian soldiers are dying in Ukraine.  You immediately jump all over sources I have not mentioned.  Instead, give credibility to the dead. 

Let them die.  Unfortunately enough have to die so that the Russian population will realize what a gigantic LIAR that Putin is and get rid of him.  Huilo can lie to the average person on the street but the mothers of these soldiers know different.  Many of the mothers are also telling their sons to refuse to serve under this tyrannical dictator.