your ace in the hole

[chivo]

for any of you from the west who are considering coming to the FSU in search of a woman obiviously there are many things to think about.

i have often talked about the differences in women (on other boards not here im new) from the FSU as compared to women say from America. now of course you have your women are women argument which of course overall i have no problem with. but if youre going to tell me that a woman who lives in deepest darkest Africa has the same mentality as a valley girl from Los Angleles, well i just don't agree.

and thats what i talking about here. in the FSU the man is still the man. and better yet being a man makes you something that is cherished here unlike, say, America. keep in mind that i can only offer general terms, but there seems to be much less grey area with this statement in the FSU.

women here want a man, it completes them. you need not look any further than the stigma that accompanies a women in Russia past the age of 25 who doesnt have a man. be it right or wrong isnt the point, its just the way it is, sad as it may be.

now how does that affect you. well consider yourself a commodity that is in demand. do not mistake this as thinking that a women here will just settle for any ape that shows up. you still have to do what you need to do in order to win her heart, but know that its a heart that wants to be won over.

again the attitude is such, generally speaking, that women in America are conditioned in a way that makes a man akin to a disposable razor. doesn't mean they don't want a man, or that theyre bad or evil women, just means that the mentality is more on the lines of take it or leave it.

as tough as life can get for many women in the FSU, they "need" a man to soften life for them. one who can be a solid foundation to rest their femininity on and hide behind after a day of carrying the world on their shoulders. life is tough for many, thus the term you hear so much of "i want a strong man". one who can take the constant pressure that is life here off them. they adore being a women and all that it includes, but too many times they are left to carry what i see as and unfair load.

and this is your "ace". know that if you do come here and be a "real" man to them and let them indulge in their feminity, you will be rewarded beyond your imagination. know that it is your responsibility to take this burden (or at least lessen it) from them. know that in a day and age where gender gets harder and harder to define, there is still aplace where a man is a man and a woman is a woman. you are the man, be the man ( as a woman would define it) and relish in the role. its one thing that you have on your side that's gives you an advantage. peace out

Chivo

ps yes there is much more thats involved with this type of relationship but lets take one thing at a time, and this is a start.

[jb]

That was very well said and mirrors much of what has been preached here in the past.  Glad to hear it from another voice.

[Jet]

Excellent post Chivo and I agree with you 100%

[PeeWee]

"...women here want a man, it completes them. you need not look any further than the stigma that accompanies a women in Russia past the age of 25 who doesnt have a man. be it right or wrong isnt the point, its just the way it is, sad as it may be..."

I heard Tom Cruise exclaim it in a movie once. "You complete me." How gay of him to say that! This where the rich Western man comes into the picture. He very effectively removes that sitgma when he rides in and swoops the stimatized RW off of her feet thus saving her the fate of almost every babushka this side of the Urals.

Peewee

[Joe Kerr]

I haven't gotten much of a response rate yet.  Apparently, I chose some women with enough self-esteem (I hate that overused term) they didn't need me to complete them.  Worse, the third of them that didn't reply were too lazy to push the "not interested" option.  Ouch!     

[PeeWee]

I haven't gotten much of a response rate yet.¦nbsp; Apparently, I chose some women with enough self-esteem (I hate that overused term) they didn't need me to complete them.¦nbsp; Worse, the third of them that didn't reply were too lazy to push the "not interested" option.¦nbsp; Ouch!¦nbsp; ¦nbsp; ¦nbsp;

I have noticed across the board that Eastern European women have a much higher esteem than to American women. I have yet to find an EW with low self esteem yet I often find AW with low self esteem. The rule of thumb is that "generally" (there are always exceptions to the rule) the better the AW looks the lower her self esteem. There are a number of psychological and socialogical reasons for that. On the other hand I have yet to meet a RW with low self esteem, this based on 10 only, but 10 for 10 does show a trend, who has any thought in her mind that she is not at least an attractive woman. You have any thoughts on that, guys?

Peewee

Peewee

[KenC]

Chivo,
Very good post!  I would like to add that RM also play into this concept very well too. During their dating period, they shower thier woman with gifts and would never ever think of a woman paying for even part of a date or meal. They will spend their last ruble to impress their woman. Many of the "spoiled" RW are that way because of their expectations learned from dating RM and not necessarily AM.

Peewee,
Right on the money with your comments.
KenC

[Jumper]

peewee-

I would say on average RW are miuch more strong minded and self confident.
Again its hard to generalize an entire populace..

but in russian there is a saying that
"a woman should know her value"
and most do.

I consider that a good thing, and regardless of nationality a truly self confident woman  is the only kind of woman that is ever attractive to me.
(and yes , of course it can be taken too far )

Ken C said :

Chivo,
Very good post!  I would like to add that RM also play into this concept very well too. During their dating period, they shower thier woman with gifts and would never ever think of a woman paying for even part of a date or meal. They will spend their last ruble to impress their woman. Many of the "spoiled" RW are that way because of their expectations learned from dating RM and not necessarily AM.

LOL Ken!
 not trying to off topic this thread-
 but this is exactly the type of mentality and CULTURAL differences that are causing such reactions in another thread..
regarding financial expectations..by a gf or fiancee.
they are different in different cultures..

is it correct? who is to know,,
does a man bow to it, to show or prove  anything? no.
and actually i agree with you on sending monetary monthly amounts to a g/f or fiancee to show the depth of your love..

but a WM should recognize that it is viewed differently in another culture. by both the men and the women..
A RM wouldnt think anything about such *support* mentioned in another thread, he might (likely would) even brag to his business partners of what he did for her, or how well he puts her up..
a Western man would view it as buying her affection..
*shrugs*
that cultures view of what a  normal  man does..
might be different than here , and right or wrong by western standards,
that will reflect in many RW expectations..???

[jb]

Following AJ off topic a bit...

A woman in Russia has little in the way of bragging rights to anything except her husband and family.  She likes to be able to show her g/fs she got hooked up with a good man, how better than to have a man provide for her a better lifestyle and a few luxuries she wouldn't otherwise be able to have.

As AJ said, it's a cultural thing.

[Slings_and_Arrows]

The original post was awesome.  This is stuff we should all know.  A couple of quick questions though.


What exactly is this social stigma of a RW without a husband past age 25?  I can take a guess I'm sure, but I'd like to hear it from the experts on this board please.  How exactly are they viewed?  I'm in contact with 3 ladies right now.  I ask because I am in contact with a 25 and 28 year old ; and I'm just curious.  I notice that the older gals (if 25 and 29 can be called older) are much 'friendlier' then the 22 year old I'm also in contact with.  For the record, I'm 29 myself.


Also, it was my understand that life in the FSU is much better then we would think.  What are these hardships these women face?  I understood that unless they lived in osme backwoods town, they have a phone, address, modern shops and the like.

[BC]

I think that social pressure to get married and have kids early may be a leftover of the old times and will take another generation to get over the stigma unless Putin and/or the economy do something quickly.  Negative birthrate at the moment so all momentum has been lost.

[Jumper]

Slings-
most RW you corresponde with will be from a major /modern city , like any other.itprobably has asmany or more moden amenities as any city near you.

life is hard there economically,
and those type of things ,are harder to afford for the average individual..
a big part of that is the lack of credit structure
(actually that is changing rapidly)

for example:the new cars you see filling the  FSU city streets
are paid by cash (generally)
where as in the U.S most would be monthly payments?
 

in any case NO! it certainly isnt some backwards place without modern conveniences.


as far as stigma -
i would say it is like the stigma of an unmarried woman here, in the past generations?

A woman is supposed to be married with children by 25 or so..
after that age she is becoming a spinster

my wife is 27 , you cant believe the amount of pressure babushka has placed on us to produce grandchildren
in her mind we have been seeing each other forver,
married practically 3 years,  we both have one foot in the grave,, what on earth are we waiting for ????
(the only purpose of a family is children, you must understand that )
 
it wasnt so long ago the US cultural pressures where the same?

[PeeWee]

Not often does it happen but I find myself agreeing with everyone, so far. I recall what a  former RW lady of mine told me when I asked her how her mother chose her father. She had told me that her mother was a very attractive woman and that she had many suitors. "Simple," she said, "My father was the one who gave her the most gifts." Another time I was having lunch with my friend's 11 year old daughter. I asked her if her mother had many boyfriends. "Just one," she said. "But I don't like him very well."  I asked her why she did not like him. "Because he is cheap! He does not bring me many gifts."

I see a pattern here and some of  you have confirmed this. It may
very well be a cultural thing.  All I know is...be like the three wise men. Come bearing gifts and you will be well received.

Peewee

[Daknack]

I guess Ill be the first one to disagree with something here.  Most hot women here in the US I know a damn well aware of how good they look and have no issue getting what they want.  That story about low self esteem in hot women is a myth after they are about 24  and had several years of men chasing them.  When they are young, they may not realize how good they look... just give it a few years.

[PeeWee]

I guess Ill be the first one to disagree with something here.¦nbsp; Most hot women here in the US I know a damn well aware of how good they look and have no issue getting what they want.¦nbsp; That story about low self esteem in hot women is a myth after they are about 24¦nbsp; and had several years of men chasing them.¦nbsp; When they are young, they may not realize how good they look... just give it a few years.

Daknak, most women know from childhood if they are hot or not. They know it because they are told constantly by almost everyone they meet, "Ohhhh, you're so cute." And on into adulthood the validation, or lack thereof, continues to reinforce it, or not. They all know. That has nothing to do with self esteem. The self esteem comes into play when they self doubt themselves. "I'm too fat. I'm to thin. My butt is too big. My lips are too thin."  The hotter she is the more she has to self doubt. Hence the lower her self esteem is.

Women are neroutic creatures and always self accessing themselves incorreclty. The weigh scale tells them the weight and they see themselves as 10 pounds heavier. The hotter the women the lower her self esteem. It is very easy to get dates with 10s. It is very easy to get a 10 into bed. This is because her self esteem is lower than a 6 to and 8,  who by the way, are harder to get into bed. And how about the "Large and Incharge" group. 2 to 5 and all of the time they have convinced themselves that it is ok to be 20 to 100 pounds over weight because there are so many validations flying around her. "More cushion for the pushin', Large and Incharge, and so on and so on. These denials only seve to validate her fat and homely exterior.

Peewee

[Joe Kerr]

"A woman is supposed to be married with children by 25 or so..
after that age she is becoming a spinster."

25 doesn't seem very different from the U.S. figure.  If fact, half of American women marry by age 25 so the social presssure is subjective. 

"The estimated median age at first marriage (MAFM) in the United States for 2000-2003 was 27 and 25 years old for men and women respectively."

http://www.census.gov/population/www/socdemo/fertility/mar-fert-slides.html

[chivo]

good feedback guys,

Joe,

as i mentioned, my particular view is that i wouldn't use an agency, but i live here so... the situation is obviously different. be that as it may, understand what you're going through with your correspondence is typical of the process. dont be discouraged if your response rate or the response time is not what you would expect. i would say that its better to "not" have any expectations and go from there. patience is key, and if you're persistant, you'll find what you're looking for.


JB,

exactly right, and not only is it their bragging right, it is the one which is held with the most importance. not that family isn't important in the west, but here the woman is judged by her family unit. it is absolutely serious stuff in how they're viewed the the society here in that regard. and how they're viewed by society is very, very important to them. again, it doesn't mean its not important to AW, it just that i notice more of " i don't give a sh*t what people think" attitude in the west.

AJ, BC,

I'm always amazed at the way a RM drops money on his woman. most would not even think twice about spending their last penny to impress the woman of their desires. you cannot be cheap with these women. no it doesn't mean you have to give them everything their little hearts desire, but you cannot be cheap, especially if its important or necessary to them. cheap is the kiss of death for any man headed this way.

remember i said be a "strong" man. one of the most important factors is being able to hold up against difficult times, its doesn't mean being a cheap and mean person. kindness plays as does generosity. kindness will never be viewed as weakness, especially if your able to finesse the difficult times. kindness and generosity will never be taken for granted (if the woman is  sincerely interested in you), and the rewards you get from the woman will be 10 fold. 

finally,

the stigma i talked about is partly what others have mention, but i go a step further. part of this stigma involves what i would call "damaged" goods. especially if a woman has reach 30. if a woman doesn't have a man by then, she is thought to have many problems (physically, emotionally, psychologically, etc.). add in the fact that there are many young available beautiful woman to compete with and you can see how this can affect her psyche.

joe,

its not about average age when getting married. its about how a woman is viewed by society after she reaches a certain age. for a woman not to married by the age of 30 in America for instance, its really no big deal. the women could have a career, be doing this or that, its just how American society views it. here is looked at much differently, trust me, and in a much more negative way, and while future generations will surely change this view, in Russia, change takes longer than you think. remember, perception is reality, not the other way around. peace out.

Chivo

[PeeWee]

From above, "I'm always amazed at the way a RM drops money on his woman. most would not even think twice about spending their last penny to impress the woman of their desires. you cannot be cheap with these women. no it doesn't mean you have to give them everything their little hearts desire, but you cannot be cheap, especially if its important or necessary to them. cheap is the kiss of death for any man headed this way..."

What I have yet to understand, and I see it in words both here and on other forums that cater to E E women, is that most of the guys heading over there talk cheap. By that I mean, "Where can I get the cheapest airfare from the US to Kraphole?" Or, "Where can I find a cheap hotel in Babushkakhan?"

I think about the attitude of those bargin basement boys and I wonder if that attitude changes once they arrive in E E. Do they bring zerkon jewelry with them rather than diamonds because they got a deal on them? Do they ask their lady questions such as; "Where's a cheap place to eat and then compain about the cost of the meal with the bill arrives? She sees the room that he chose for himself. She feels his "I'm here and I'm ready to save a buck" demeaner. How can these guys not come off as "cheap" or do they somehow make a mental adjustment as their " Cheapassairfare flight is winging its way to the Promised Land? I wonder how they do it.

Peewee

[catzenmouse]

Peewee,

 For me, I wanted to spend the least amount possible on travel and lodging so I would have the most available resources to do all the fun things I wanted to do. If I wanted a high end restaurant I did that, if I wanted to go shopping I did that. Just makes sense to me to keep the up front costs down so you can play more while you are there.

Ken

[jb]

Peewee,

I think it's called "Money Management", or if you like; living within your means.  Having made the trip across the pond over 20 times, with roughly half of those trip paid for by me, I know what that kind of travel can do to the old bank account.

Unless a man is enjoying life on a greater than 6 figure income, flying 1st class and staying in the best hotels may not be an option if he is going to make any trips at all.  In any case, I still would not recommend a man stay in hotels to begin with.  No one will gather even a glimmer of the everyday culture, or an understanding of the lifestyle RWs see everyday unless he lives as a Russian does.  If you live in a 5 star hotel and eat in high priced restaurants every day you will miss out on the best of what Russia offers, the earthiness and genuine goodness of the Russian people.  You can call it cheap, I call it wonderful to absorb the culture and class of a society on a first hand basis.  Also, by displaying that kind of wealthy lifestyle, you only make a target of yourself for the crooks, thieves, and con artists who only wish to seperate you from your bankroll.

[Jumper]

chivo said -

its not about average age when getting married. its about how a woman is viewed by society after she reaches a certain age. for a woman not to married by the age of 30 in America for instance, its really no big deal. the women could have a career, be doing this or that, its just how American society views it. here is looked at much differently, trust me, and in a much more negative way, and while future generations will surely change this view, in Russia, change takes longer than you think. remember, perception is reality, not the other way around

exactly.

chivo, i hope new guys looking into this value your circumstances and input.
you are in a situation to give them somegreat insight on the culture there, and most importantly the 'perception is reality" part, as it is her perception that is herreality..
you cant expect your cultural norms to be the same as  someone from the FSU.


peewee-
I have seen exactly that situation.Men complaining on thier first date about the cost of a normal dinner or whatever.. or bragging about how mucvh they saved on flat rent or whatever..
(of course i've seen that same behaviour stateside as well,but it wouldnt be viewed quite as bnegatively here))
and absolutely not the best topic of conversation for an first date with a RW LOL, but then it might be why those men  are looking somewhere else to find a wife... the dark side of this endeaver is that it does draw far too often from the socially inept.
The stereotype of MOB, as inaccurate as it is in many cases ,  like any stereotype has more than a far amount of truth at its roots.

[Jumper]

Like jb noted,
i think there is a balance between somone staying at the very best hotel,,eating at the most expensive places- sometimes to simply impress-
or simply complaining on a first date about how expensive a normal resturant bill is, or going into detail about his research into getting the very cheapest flight..
 

If traveling in the FSU to meet a woman (or dating several)..
I would not stay at a hotel...
I would stay in a flat,, for about 10 million reasons.
probably best left to another thread.

but jb has a great point about getting to know the culture..
only one way to even get a slight taste,  and that's immersion.
easy enough to do in the FSU, with the added bonus of a nice, knowledgeble ,local guide!

 

[Leslie]

Chivo,

I have to comment on this -

"I'm always amazed at the way a RM drops money on his woman. most would not even think twice about spending their last penny to impress the woman of their desires. you cannot be cheap with these women. no it doesn't mean you have to give them everything their little hearts desire, but you cannot be cheap, especially if its important or necessary to them. cheap is the kiss of death for any man headed this way."

Been there. Done that. 5 trips. Spent my money got fewkin nowhere. Then I listened to JB -

"In any case, I still would not recommend a man stay in hotels to begin with. ¦nbsp;No one will gather even a glimmer of the everyday culture, or an understanding of the lifestyle RWs see everyday unless he lives as a Russian does. If you live in a 5 star hotel and eat in high priced restaurants every day you will miss out on the best of what Russia offers, the earthiness and genuine goodness of the Russian people. You can call it cheap, I call it wonderful to absorb the culture and class of a society on a first hand basis. Also, by displaying that kind of wealthy lifestyle, you only make a target of yourself for the crooks, thieves, and con artists who only wish to separate you from your bankroll."

I stopped acting like a tourist. Travelled second class on the train. Long distance buses. Started to meet REAL Ukrainian people. CHEAP - You betcha. Never spent more than $20 on a date. No expensive gifts. Nada. Absolutely no shortage of offers. My wife became my girlfriend and the ONLY gift I gave her up to then was 5 lilies !

Lead with your wallet and you will find a ton of women who will help you spend it. If you are going to build a lasting relationship She has to like/love you for who you are - not the money you are spending.

[catzenmouse]

Lead with your wallet and you will find a ton of women who will help you spend it. If you are going to build a lasting relationship She has to like/love you for who you are - not the money you are spending.

Right on the "money" Leslie! {pun intended}

 This needs to be incorporated into the Commandments.

[PeeWee]

Peewee,

 For me, I wanted to spend the least amount possible on travel and lodging so I would have the most available resources to do all the fun things I wanted to do. If I wanted a high end restaurant I did that, if I wanted to go shopping I did that. Just makes sense to me to keep the up front costs down so you can play more while you are there.

Ken

I would agree with that logic, Ken. I wonder if everyone is like you or are they inadvertantly conveying the cheap mentality from the get go. I ask the question because if FSU women are sensative to "cheap" then some of these lads may be in for a rude awakening when they try to go bargin with their cash once they arrive in the Promised Land.

Peewee

Peewee