Putin is Ruining Russia

[Taz]

One quick thing Doll. Have you ever watched anyone die? While I was in the US military, I am not what you would call a "hawk." In general I am not in favor of war unless absolutely needed. Russia started this conflict for no real reason at all. The created a crisis and used propaganda to further their ends. Thousands of people have no died as a result.


Russia continues to ignore ceasefire requests and each time a new humanitarian aid convoy shows up from Russia, fighting intensifies. A logical mind might conclude that there is more rockets and ammunition in those aid convoys.

So while I am not in favor of needless deaths, Russia shows that like most terrorists, they only understand the use of force. So force them from the area. The average person in these areas are not in support of the Russian terrorists/rebels and when they try to flee they are killed "accidentally". I have several friends from the Donetsk area who fled the conflict. They didn't go to Russia even though they were of Russian ethnicity. They went to Kyiv. They saw that the Russians were supplying the troops and there were Russians there.

[Taz]

I guess it is more than just Putin giving Russia a blackeye. I guess this Russian soldier learned from Herr Putin. The surprising part is the Russian border patrol supposedly arrested him. Most likely they did that to protect him from the Armenians, not to actually put him on trial some day...




Protests In Armenia Disrupted By Police After Russian Soldier Reportedly Kills 6 Civilians
[size=inherit]16:38 (GMT)[/size]


[/size][size=inherit]Russian border patrol police has arrested a Russian soldier, stationed in Armenia, after he reportedly killed 6 civilians. AP [/color]reports:[/size][/size][size=inherit]Armenian officials said the soldier, Valery Permyakov, who was serving at a Russian military base in Armenia, deserted from his unit and is suspected of killing the family at their home in the city of Gyumri early Monday. The only family member to survive the massacre was a 6-month-old baby, who suffered stab wounds.[/size][/size][size=inherit]However, protesters angry with the Russians have taken to the streets in Gyumri, and they have been met by an army of police:[/size]

[Doll]

Let me ask you the same question

Here is the difference, Taz- we are discussing Putin  (which is none of us)and you PERSONALLY are calling to kill him.
I am referring, you are doing it yourself.

[AC]

Believe what- that Putin is squeezing Europe?
He is interested in selling gas to Europe but doesn't want risks. This new line will cost extra, but it will be safer. There is one more line n the North that will be used more than now.
Poroshenko can produce his own gas 

He probably will.  When I mentioned to you that Shell and others may want to invest in Ukraine you called it "control".  They call it freedom from the bully to the East.

[Taz]

Putin is ordering the killing of thousands of innocent people by his actions.


Read more about the killing of the civilians by Russia here.


http://ukraineatwar.blogspot.com/


Now the UN will investigate. Russians claim mines but the blast pattern clearly shows missile impacts.


Another bunch of people died to enrich Putin and his cronies. There is a special place in hell for people like him. He just can't get there quick enough.

[AkMike]

Strange that the video shows multiple explosions scattered around the area that mines cannot do.

 So much form that Muskovi theory.

[TheBullRDR]

Hey Taz,
   I have been reading back through these posts and it seems to me that you have hit the nail on the head.  Economic growth in Russia and the rise in the standard of living had nothing to do with Putin, rather it was the price of oil being over 100 a barrel.  Russia's economy is very one dimentional, and now that oil has fallen to the 30's per barrel, we will see their economy fall like a stone ( which we already are, look at the Ruble today).
   For those of you that think the price of oil is going to come back early this year, you are dead wrong.  It is going to come back at some point soon, but not to the levels it was at.  Until the currently drilled shale plays in the US begin their normal decline from initial production (takes about 3 to 4 years) the price will stay low.  This is due to several factors.  1) Currently there are over 2 million barrels of oil produced daily, world wide, in excess of demand.  That means a big surplus.  That means prices fall.  2)OPEC is trying to push prices lower and keep them there until the US stops drilling in the shale plays, or at least slows down.  If they accomplish this, it's better for the rest of the OPEC nations and hence the world economy on oil.  Opec can better regulate the price of oil and it's distribution if the US is not the leading producer of oil in the world.  It's all in the economics. 
   Having said all of that, Russia is basically screwed.  They wont get their pipe line built because they wont be able to fund it nor will the rest of the world let construction continue.  Oil prices are going to stay low for a while until the shale plays decline and the surplus is used up.  Now you have a leader of a country that is seeing his economy crash and has openly admitted he would consider using nukes in small conflicts.  No, this can't end well for Russia.  The best that can be hoped for is to get Putin out of there and hopefully a rational mind can step in and stem the tide of idiocracy.  If Putin decides to go to war to try and shore up his failing economy, he is going to find himself on the wrong end of a multi-national, if not world wide, coalition that would oppose him.  Not a good place to be. 
   I really don't understand how any critical thinking person could support that ex KGB thug.

[jone]

Putin should put together a new 'Five Year Plan'.  Such would get past this short term blip in his economy.  (Obviously this is sarcasm.)

Nice post TheBullRDR.  Keep 'em coming.

[AC]

Putin should put together a new 'Five Year Plan'.  Such would get past this short term blip in his economy.  (Obviously this is sarcasm.)

Nice post TheBullRDR.  Keep 'em coming.

+1   

[sleepycat]

Taz, Russia can really gain from this crisis (which was staged, I am more than sure)- I mean developing industry and agriculture.

Develop the wheelbarrow making industry, to cart those near worthless rubles around?

[Doll]

   
   Having said all of that, Russia is basically screwed.  They wont get their pipe line built because they wont be able to fund it nor will the rest of the world let construction continue.     

What do you mean Will not let"?
Russia will do it till Turkey, then EU will get it through Greece. Europe is interested in Russian gas and trade with Russia. Gas is inexpensive, Russian market is huge.
Russia survived million times , it will survive this time too.

[Doll]

Seven EU countries support lifting sanctions on Russia

Austria, Hungary, Italy, Cyprus, Slovakia, France and the Czech Republic support lifting the anti-Russia sanctions

BRUSSELS, January 15. /TASS/. Seven EU countries support the lifting of Western sanctions on Russia, a diplomatic source in Brussels told TASS on Thursday.

“The sanctions’ lifting has been supported by Austria, Hungary, Italy, Cyprus, Slovakia, France and the Czech Republic,” he said.

A European diplomatic source close to the EU Council told TASS previously that foreign ministers of 28 EU member countries would not make any decisions on sanctions against Russia at their first meeting this year in Brussels on January 19. “Russia, of course, will be on the agenda of the Council (EU Council on Foreign Relations), but the specific issue of the sanctions - whether they should be cancelled, softened, renewed or not - will not be raised. The decision on sanctions should be taken in March,” he said.

According to another source, although no concrete decisions on sanctions are expected at the upcoming ministerial meeting, “the tone of this issue discussion should be softened.” “Ministers will most likely be preparing the ground for softening the sanctions regime. Perhaps the time has come,” said the diplomat.

The Wall Street Journal previously reported with reference to a document prepared by the EU foreign policy service that became available to WSJ reporters that the European Union was ready to soften the anti-Russian sanctions and for partial normalisation of relations with Russia if Moscow changes its stance on the situation in Ukraine. The newspaper says this document should be considered by the participants in the meeting of the EU foreign ministers in Brussels on January 19. The document will be presented in the next few days to the EU member states’ foreign ministers.


http://itar-tass.com/en/world/771324



 

[Doll]

Fifty-five percent of Russians want to see Putin as their president after 2018 - poll
 

Fifty-five percent of Russian citizens recently interviewed by the Levada Center said they would like to see Vladimir Putin as Russia's president after the 2018 elections, as compared with 32 percent in March 2014 and 26 percent in 2013, the center's sociologists told Interfax.

Ten percent of respondents said they would not be opposed to another person becoming Russia's next president if he continued Putin's policies (22 percent in March 2014 and 14 percent in 2013), the sociologists said.

 
(Read more here http://rbth.com/news/2015/01/15/fifty-five_percent_of_russians_want_to_see_putin_as_their_president_afte_42882.html?utm_source=e-generator&utm_medium=widget&utm_campaign=content_seeding

[Boethius]

Russia survived million times , it will survive this time too.

That is not the way to look at the issue.  The issue should be looked more at what Russia wants to become, and whether it wishes to raise its standard of living. 

According to a commentator on Frontline's Putin programme, the median or the midpoint wealth for the average Russian is $871, according to Credit Suisse. That means half the population has more than that in wealth, and half the population has less. Median wealth in India is over a thousand dollars. So, the average Russian is poorer than the average Indian.  That's pretty shocking, to me at least.

The other number is 110. One hundred ten individuals own 35 percent of the wealth of Russia. They are the most unequal country by far in the world.

Is that the country Russia wants to become?
 

[Boethius]

Seven EU countries support lifting sanctions on Russia

Austria, Hungary, Italy, Cyprus, Slovakia, France and the Czech Republic support lifting the anti-Russia sanctions

BRUSSELS, January 15. /TASS/. Seven EU countries support the lifting of Western sanctions on Russia, a diplomatic source in Brussels told TASS on Thursday.

“The sanctions’ lifting has been supported by Austria, Hungary, Italy, Cyprus, Slovakia, France and the Czech Republic,” he said.

A European diplomatic source close to the EU Council told TASS previously that foreign ministers of 28 EU member countries would not make any decisions on sanctions against Russia at their first meeting this year in Brussels on January 19. “Russia, of course, will be on the agenda of the Council (EU Council on Foreign Relations), but the specific issue of the sanctions - whether they should be cancelled, softened, renewed or not - will not be raised. The decision on sanctions should be taken in March,” he said.

According to another source, although no concrete decisions on sanctions are expected at the upcoming ministerial meeting, “the tone of this issue discussion should be softened.” “Ministers will most likely be preparing the ground for softening the sanctions regime. Perhaps the time has come,” said the diplomat.

The Wall Street Journal previously reported with reference to a document prepared by the EU foreign policy service that became available to WSJ reporters that the European Union was ready to soften the anti-Russian sanctions and for partial normalisation of relations with Russia if Moscow changes its stance on the situation in Ukraine. The newspaper says this document should be considered by the participants in the meeting of the EU foreign ministers in Brussels on January 19. The document will be presented in the next few days to the EU member states’ foreign ministers.


http://itar-tass.com/en/world/771324

But Germany has stated the sanctions will remain in place unless there is movement by Russia on the Ukraine issue.  Given Germany's predominance in the EU, I don't see this issue changing, no matter what Tass wants.
 
 

[TheBullRDR]

Will not let, as in the construction through the lower half of Crimea and out into the sea was already halted and not allowed to continue.  You can build all the pipes you want through your own borders, but when you reach your border and the rest of the world wont let you continue, that pretty much shuts it all down.  I mean, even Switzerland, yes that country that sat out of every world war, is all for the sanctions and voted to stop all construction on external pipeline construction.  You know you're doing something wrong when even Switzerland is against you. 
  And yes, Russia will survive.  I didn't say it would be wiped from the face of the earth, did I?  But did you ever wonder why, with all of it's resources and control of the region, it is still a 2nd world country?  There is only one explanation.  Leadership.  That country could have been exceptionally strong but for the leaders it produces.  Just look at the ruling class now.  They continue to live like fat cats while the rest of the populace is circling the drain.  And they don't care.  Take a look through the history books.  "-Twas always thus, and always thus shall be".

You are right, gas is cheap.  And Russia does have large reserves.  But you don't have the market cornered on it.  Plenty of natural gas to go around.  Guess who produces more?  Guess who would just love to sell it to Europe instead of Russia?   We could sell to all of those countries because they also support the embargoes placed on Russia because of poor decisions made by your leadership.  You see how this all comes back to your leaders? 

One more time, I can't fathom how any critically thinking person can support that ex KGB thug

[Doll]

Boe. no, but right now to tall Russia is dead is absolutely stupid.

[TheBullRDR]

Seven EU countries support lifting sanctions on Russia

Austria, Hungary, Italy, Cyprus, Slovakia, France and the Czech Republic support lifting the anti-Russia sanctions

BRUSSELS, January 15. /TASS/. Seven EU countries support the lifting of Western sanctions on Russia, a diplomatic source in Brussels told TASS on Thursday.

“The sanctions’ lifting has been supported by Austria, Hungary, Italy, Cyprus, Slovakia, France and the Czech Republic,” he said.

A European diplomatic source close to the EU Council told TASS previously that foreign ministers of 28 EU member countries would not make any decisions on sanctions against Russia at their first meeting this year in Brussels on January 19. “Russia, of course, will be on the agenda of the Council (EU Council on Foreign Relations), but the specific issue of the sanctions - whether they should be cancelled, softened, renewed or not - will not be raised. The decision on sanctions should be taken in March,” he said.

According to another source, although no concrete decisions on sanctions are expected at the upcoming ministerial meeting, “the tone of this issue discussion should be softened.” “Ministers will most likely be preparing the ground for softening the sanctions regime. Perhaps the time has come,” said the diplomat.

The Wall Street Journal previously reported with reference to a document prepared by the EU foreign policy service that became available to WSJ reporters that the European Union was ready to soften the anti-Russian sanctions and for partial normalisation of relations with Russia if Moscow changes its stance on the situation in Ukraine. The newspaper says this document should be considered by the participants in the meeting of the EU foreign ministers in Brussels on January 19. The document will be presented in the next few days to the EU member states’ foreign ministers.


http://itar-tass.com/en/world/771324

That is a pretty big "if".  If memory serves, it's that "if" that got Russia into this mess to begin with. 

[Boethius]

I don't think Russia is dead, but I think it is, economically, in trouble.

You say Russians will survive because they are survivors.  But, the same is true of every country.  There is nothing unique about Russians in this regard.

[Doll]

 
   
You are right, gas is cheap.  And Russia does have large reserves.  But you don't have the market cornered on it.  Plenty of natural gas to go around.  Guess who produces more?  Guess who would just love to sell it to Europe instead of Russia?   We could sell to all of those countries because they also support the embargoes placed on Russia because of poor decisions made by your leadership.   

Sell what?
Europe is interested in Russian gas not just to get gas but to trade in Russia. Russia is a HUGE market.

[Doll]

I don't think Russia is dead, but I think it is, economically, in trouble.

 

No kidding.

[TheBullRDR]

Sell what?
Europe is interested in Russian gas not just to get gas but to trade in Russia. Russia is a HUGE market.

Sell what?  Do you really not know the answer to that question?  And big market or not, doesn't matter as long as they agree not to buy or sell anything to Russia.  What part of this don't you understand?  And what is the Russian market so huge for?  You keep saying gas, which I've already shown can come from elsewhere.  So what is this huge market you speak of? 

[Boethius]

Sell what?
Europe is interested in Russian gas not just to get gas but to
trade in Russia. Russia is a HUGE market.

It is a potentially huge market.  However, no EU country had significant trade with Russia currently (I mean before the sanctions).  Most have trade deficits with Russia.

[lordtiberius]

No kidding.

I am just curious is there anything that would shake your faith in Uncle Vova?

[Doll]

Sell what?  Do you really not know the answer to that question?  And big market or not, doesn't matter as long as they agree not to buy or sell anything to Russia.  What part of this don't you understand?  And what is the Russian market so huge for?  You keep saying gas, which I've already shown can come from elsewhere.  So what is this huge market you speak of?

Russian market is huge for Europe to sell what it wants to Russians.
Trade. Have you heard of it at all?