Putin is Ruining Russia

[GQBlues]

The reason for this, GQ, is that the majority of the units are from Western Ukraine, and they've borne the brunt of injuries and death.  The majority of those soldiers are draftees, and they were sent to battle with little training.


Things have improved now that a military man is defence minister.

But why would that even matter Boe if the purpose was unified? If anything, WU should be the forefront of the offensive since they've always been nationalist and largely Ukrainian...

[Boethius]

The sea of support for change was from Central Ukraine west.


Ukrainians have always been the majority population everywhere in Ukraine except Crimea.

[GQBlues]

Which still doesn't retract my point..there had been protests even Kiev.

[Boethius]

They're not protesting the government's offensive, though.  Just the way it is being implemented.

[Misha]

They're not protesting the government's offensive, though.  Just the way it is being implemented.

Yes, and it is fascinating to see how patriotic the Russian-speakers of southern Ukraine have become. Here, you have crowd around a vehicle that is displaying St. George's ribbon (a symbol that is proudly worn by Strelkov et al.). They excoriate him, and ask him about the plane that shot down... So much for Putin's fabled Novorossiya 

[Muzh]

Maybe Fathertime should go to these people and tell them they should accept federalization in Ukraine. I'd like to see the civilized conversation that will ensue.


Heh, heh, heh : D

[Manny]

The IRA didn't occupy Northern England though, did they?   And had they, you would have thought it completely reasonable?

You are being silly. England isnt a second world country with a Fisher Price military. You have zero understanding of the IRA.

[Muzh]

You are being silly. England isnt a second world country with a Fisher Price military. You have zero understanding of the IRA.

And you sir, have zero understanding of Ukrainians.

[Manny]

Ukraine is not an authoritarian state, and it does have free and fair elections.

Yes, it had a fairly elected president until the coup d'etat. A junta that kills its own citizens is not very free and fair.

Personally, I don't believe that setting Ukrainian as the national language of Ukraine, with linguistic rights for minorities, is a horrible thing.

Maybe you should set French as the sole national language for Canada?

[Faux Pas]

You are being silly. England isnt a second world country with a Fisher Price military. You have zero understanding of the IRA.

But you're ignoring the point she is making. Doesn't matter if it's the IRA, the U.S. or Norway military forces. Would it be acceptable to you for any foreign military to bring their hardware and fire power to English soil, occupy and kill civilians, British troops, pillaging and sleeping in your house?

[Doll]

Yes, and it is fascinating to see how patriotic the Russian-speakers of southern Ukraine have become. Here, you have crowd around a vehicle that is displaying St. George's ribbon (a symbol that is proudly worn by Strelkov et al.). They excoriate him, and ask him about the plane that shot down... So much for Putin's fabled Novorossiya 

Bunch of idiots!
 

[Manny]

But of course, this is hard to understand by someone who feels all Ukrainian women are whores.

I am not sure who you are addressing with that statement.

[Boethius]

You are being silly. England isnt a second world country with a Fisher Price military. You have zero understanding of the IRA.

My point was not about the UK's military capabilities, nor the politics of the IRA.


But it's good to know that you believe "might is right", and Ukrainians don't deserve the same protection from their government that you'd expect of yours.


Nevertheless, please answer the question.  If the IRA occupied your hometown, would you be participating in a referendum they set up?  Would you complacently allow them to decide your fate?

[Misha]

Bunch of idiots!

Ah, but they are all speaking in Russian. Can't you just feel the love for Russia?

[Manny]

Which still doesn't retract my point..there had been protests even Kiev.

They don't protest in Kiev, everyone knows that. They sing camp fire songs by the burning tyres and wave EU flags. Its a land of peace now, didnt you hear? Shiny new president, free gas, lots of cookies from that nice Mrs Nuland, all waiting for some free money from the EU and ze Germans.

[Manny]

Nevertheless, please answer the question.  If the IRA occupied your hometown, would you be participating in a referendum they set up?  Would you complacently allow them to decide your fate?

That would depend if London was bombing civilians. Which they wouldn't. Your analogy is asinine.

[Boethius]

Yes, it had a fairly elected president until the coup d'etat. A junta that kills its own citizens is not very free and fair.

Already covered here.  When a president abandons his office, as Yanukovych did, he can't expect the government to stop functioning.

Maybe you should set French as the sole national language for Canada?



Relatively few people west of Manitoba speak French, and in Quebec, it is almost impossible to obtain English service from the provincial government.  So, in fact, that is already the case, depending on where one lives.


No one was denying Russians their language, their media, or their schools in Ukraine. 


Minority language rights are protected in Ukraine's constitution.  Those rights were modeled after Canada's constitution.

[Doll]

Ah, but they are all speaking in Russian. Can't you just feel the love for Russia?

Mish, what does it have to do with language?
The way the crowd bullied the Mercedes owner is the behavior of idiots. Whatever language they speak.
Shame on them all.

[Muzh]

Nevertheless, please answer the question.  If the IRA occupied your hometown, would you be participating in a referendum they set up?  Would you complacently allow them to decide your fate?

As long as they have lots of greenbacks. I think this is what most Europeans that are defending Putin's actions seem to think.


Or maybe, just maybe they are mesmerized by a bare-chested testosterone-filled midget who is fond of neo-nazis.


Yea, that's it. The neo-nazis.


Heh, heh, heh : D

[Muzh]

That would depend if London was bombing civilians. Which they wouldn't. Your analogy is asinine.

Oh, you can't be that naive. C'mon. Just put the plan in place and see how fast 10 Downing sends the RAF.


Who are you trying to convince? Past colonials?

[Doll]

Ah, but they are all speaking in Russian. Can't you just feel the love for Russia?

And BY THE WAY- they speak Ukrainian or with Ukrainian accent.
This 123% true)))

[Boethius]

That would depend if London was bombing civilians. Which they wouldn't. Your analogy is asinine.

LOL.  In other words, one rule if you are "first world".   Another if you happen to be a neighbour of an authoritarian regime. 


But London would never bomb civilians.

As I have told the House on many occasions," said Hain [Foreign Office minister Peter Hain of the Labour Party in UK] on 2 May, "we are not conducting a bombing campaign against Iraq . . ." The Royal Air Force, together with the US, bombs Iraq almost every day. Since December 1998, the Ministry of Defence has admitted dropping 780 tonnes of bombs on a country with which Britain is not at war. During the same period, the United States has conducted 24,000 combat missions over southern Iraq alone, mostly in populated areas. In one five-month period, 41 per cent of casualties were civilians: farmers, fishermen, shepherds, their children and their sheep - the circumstances of their killing were documented by the United Nations Security Sector. Now consider Hain's statement that no bombing campaign exists. In truth, it is the longest such campaign since the Second World War."

  - John Pilger, http://www.newstatesman.com/node/138302


http://www.kosovo.net/natobomb.html


BTW, when did Kyiv start bombing cities?  After attacks on its soldiers by the proxies of its authoritarian neighbour.

[Misha]

Mish, what does it have to do with language?
The way the crowd bullied the Mercedes owner is the behavior of idiots. Whatever language they speak.
Shame on them all.

Quite simple: Putin's actions have clearly pushed a wedge between Russia and Russian-speakers in Ukraine. So much for the Novorossiya fantasy. If anything, Ukraine should give Putin a medal. He has done more to unite all Ukrainians across the ethnic and linguistic spectrum than anybody else. He has given Ukraine heroes, statues will certainly be erected across Ukraine replacing those old Lenins. Also, he encouraged the rise of civil society and the rebirth of the Ukrainian Army as a capable fighting force.

[Muzh]

Mish, what does it have to do with language?
The way the crowd bullied the Mercedes owner is the behavior of idiots. Whatever language they speak.
Shame on them all.

Doll, my apologies.


But, in the course of human action when people who were united by a common bond start defiling a group as not worthy and action is taken against this weaker group, there is a time where civility disappear.


As you have witnessed.


Pray that you are never in that situation.

[Muzh]

Quite simple: Putin's actions have clearly pushed a wedge between Russia and Russian-speakers in Ukraine. So much for the Novorossiya fantasy. If anything, Ukraine should give Putin a medal. He has done more to unite all Ukrainians across the ethnic and linguistic spectrum than anybody else. He has given Ukraine heroes, statues will certainly be erected across Ukraine replacing those old Lenins. Also, he encouraged the rise of civil society and the rebirth of the Ukrainian Army as a capable fighting force.

Hear, Hear!!