Putin is Ruining Russia

[AC]

More evidence of flaws in your "analysis"
http://cnnpressroom.blogs.cnn.com/2015/01/18/sen-murphy-send-military-assistance-to-ukraine/

This democrat senator agrees with McCain

Yawn.

[AkMike]

LT, Are you in BT yet? I was there Fri. and Sunday.

[Taz]

Here comes the next phase... Russian air power.


"Now a full-scale war threatens to consume Ukraine, with the self-proclaimed Luhansk People’s Republic telling Russian TV channel Life News it had formed its own air force. Should that announcement ever come to fruition, Kyiv faces the prospect of thinly-disguised Russian combat aircraft flying sorties in its airspace."

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/kyiv-post-plus/ukraine-faces-threat-of-russian-air-power-as-conflict-takes-turn-for-the-worse-377818.html?


Total BS and time for the US to send immediate aid to Ukraine in the form of first line SAMs (surface to air missiles) to shut them down. Impose an immediate no-fly zone in the area. Russia is resorting to this as they are starting to lose the ground war since Ukraine started matching their armored brigades.

This is going to become a full-scale war. Time to shut Putin down immediately. Start a massive mobilization against him now and he will really think twice about moving this up. In a head to head fight the US would kick Russia's zhopa all over the place. I don't normally curse but it is truly an accurate expression here.

Time to start dialing my congressmen tomorrow.


Sorry about the original size - it changed it after posting.

[mendeleyev]

More evidence of flaws in your "analysis"
http://cnnpressroom.blogs.cnn.com/2015/01/18/sen-murphy-send-military-assistance-to-ukraine/

This democrat senator agrees with McCain

LT, Obama and the State department sent these two to Kyiv early on during the Maidan protests. As usual, McCain's presence did more harm that good. He should retire.

[Brasscasing]

Here comes the next phase... Russian air power.


"Now a full-scale war threatens to consume Ukraine, with the self-proclaimed Luhansk People’s Republic telling Russian TV channel Life News it had formed its own air force. Should that announcement ever come to fruition, Kyiv faces the prospect of thinly-disguised Russian combat aircraft flying sorties in its airspace."
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[/size]http://www.kyivpost.com/content/kyiv-post-plus/ukraine-faces-threat-of-russian-air-power-as-conflict-takes-turn-for-the-worse-377818.html?


[/size]Total BS and time for the US to send immediate aid to Ukraine in the form of first line SAMs (surface to air missiles) to shut them down. Impose an immediate no-fly zone in the area. Russia is resorting to this as they are starting to lose the ground war since Ukraine started matching their armored brigades.
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[/size]This is going to become a full-scale war. Time to shut Putin down immediately. Start a massive mobilization against him now and he will really think twice about moving this up. In a head to head fight the US would kick Russia's zhopa all over the place. I don't normally curse but it is truly an accurate expression here.

Time to start dialing my congressmen tomorrow.
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You Warthog pilots might have good eyesight but c'mon already!

Brass

[cc3]

Gutless wonders ?

Where were you during the Battle of Britain ?

Where were you when we  were getting blitzed by the Germans ?

You lot didn't want to get involved until Pearl Harbour,and you had no choice..you're the gutless wonders...all mouth....and Putin knows it.

When you got into a war without the Brits covering your back..Vietnam..you got your arses handed to you.

Wrong...totally. France was militarily defeated in Vietnam, the US (who should not have been there) politically surrendered. The US, if committed completely to military victory, could have bombed North Vietnam back to the Stone Age in one week.

You, obviously, are not a former military man.

[Chelseaboy]

Yes i am...Royal Navy Fleet Air Arm.

For a country that wasn't completely  committed you certainly lost plenty of men in Vietnam.

Like i said ,without those "gutless wonders"Brits to cover your arses you went down in flames.

And seeing as i'm totally wrong in my post..just where were you when our civilians   were getting bombed by the Germans ?

So the USA entered World War 11 before Pearl Harbour ?
Show me where i'm totally wrong about the USA not joining the conflict before then.

Seems to me you're the one that's totally wrong.


 

[JayH]

Here comes the next phase... Russian air power.


"Now a full-scale war threatens to consume Ukraine, with the self-proclaimed Luhansk People’s Republic telling Russian TV channel Life News it had formed its own air force. Should that announcement ever come to fruition, Kyiv faces the prospect of thinly-disguised Russian combat aircraft flying sorties in its airspace."

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/kyiv-post-plus/ukraine-faces-threat-of-russian-air-power-as-conflict-takes-turn-for-the-worse-377818.html?


Total BS and time for the US to send immediate aid to Ukraine in the form of first line SAMs (surface to air missiles) to shut them down. Impose an immediate no-fly zone in the area. Russia is resorting to this as they are starting to lose the ground war since Ukraine started matching their armored brigades.

This is going to become a full-scale war. Time to shut Putin down immediately. Start a massive mobilization against him now and he will really think twice about moving this up. In a head to head fight the US would kick Russia's zhopa all over the place. I don't normally curse but it is truly an accurate expression here.

Time to start dialing my congressmen tomorrow.

That is my view-- any push back by Ukrainian forces of the Russian army will be met with escalation-- and could easily involve air strikes.
Low flying Russian aircraft would be faced with the same difficulties the Ukrainian aircraft have had--lots of countering weapons.
I have repeatedly said--the only way Putin & Russia will negotiate is when they have no other choice-- anything less is in dream world.
To achieve that--it must be clear that Russia is facing an overwhelming force and escalation to meet it will mean taking Russia to doomsday.
There is little point in doing it piecemeal--go straight to maximum position and dictate the terms from there- a bully will understand being bullied! 
That position by the west--and sanctions( & hopefully upgraded sanctions) will force change in Russia-hopefully for a better Russia--if not-- at least the west is in a position to handle it.
Putin & Russia will never leave Ukraine alone until it is overwhelming clear that the consequences for Russia are real-and immediate
Any concession will betaken as confirmation that west is weak kneed and that Russia can do as it pleases-- near enough everywhere.
There will never be a better opportunity than now to deal with Russia.

So--start writing to congressmen-- quite a few on both sides already have a good handle of Ukraine situation.

[cc3]

Yes i am...Royal Navy Fleet Air Arm.

Professional position, experience level, length of service, educational background for such uninformed military judgements about the US, and belief in, and necessity of US' reliance on, the superiority of British military?

[cc3]

For a country that  wasn't completely  committed you certainly lost plenty of men in Vietnam.

Lack of commitment was the reason for the losses...self-evident!

[lordtiberius]

LT, Are you in BT yet? I was there Fri. and Sunday.

Yeah, going to Kiev tomorrow.  Are you still around?

[lordtiberius]

LT, Obama and the State department sent these two to Kyiv early on during the Maidan protests. As usual, McCain's presence did more harm that good. He should retire.

So you approve of the State Dept view in Ukraine?

[TheBullRDR]

Yes i am...Royal Navy Fleet Air Arm.

For a country that wasn't completely  committed you certainly lost plenty of men in Vietnam.

Like i said ,without those "gutless wonders"Brits to cover your arses you went down in flames.

And seeing as i'm totally wrong in my post..just where were you when our civilians   were getting bombed by the Germans ?

So the USA entered World War 11 before Pearl Harbour ?
Show me where i'm totally wrong about the USA not joining the conflict before then.

Seems to me you're the one that's totally wrong.

I've been trying to stay out of this, but come on!  In one breath you say that the US needs the brits to "cover our asses" and in the very next sentence you ask where we were when you were getting the shit kicked out of you by Germany.  If it wasn't for the US, you're the one that was going down in flames.  We bailed your asses out not once, but twice.  Yes, you have been allies, yes, you fought beside us.  What I don't get is why you think that after all of that, you can sit here and say that you have bailed us out of anything?  I don't see cemeteries full of brave British soldiers buried on American soil.  I have never heard tell of 100's of British airmen racing across oceans to join our air force to defend us.  It's some of that typical mentality I see so often.  With one breath you scream how horrible the US is and we should keep our noses out of other peoples' business, and in the next breath, as soon as your ass is in a jam, you scream, where's the US!?!?!? 

Point being, you can't say you're so much better and stronger, then cry that we didn't get into WWII sooner to save you. 

[jone]

Gentlemen,

I believe that the original post was tongue-in-cheek jest.

[Chelseaboy]

cc3,

     When i feel the need to give you my cv i'll let you know..

In the meantime feel free to show where my original post was totally wrong..because you've failed to do so again.

[cc3]

cc3,

     When i feel the need to give you my cv i'll let you know..

In the meantime feel free to show where my original post was totally wrong..because you've failed to do so again.

Therefore you are without substance or credibility...i.e.: you are full of limey cr@p!

[BillyB]

We all need to be realistic here. Putin only understands one thing; FORCE! It either needs to economic or military force (or a combination of both) used against him to reign him in. If you don't apply enough economic force (sanctions, etc.) then you'll need to use more military force to compensate.


I am all for ratcheting up sanctions and doing it quickly. Cut off his money and it will be harder to wage war against his neighbors.

Whether some people like to hear this or not, Putin is smart. He didn't wake up one night and decide he'd walk into Ukraine without planning. He had a contingency plan if Ukraine ever thought about joining the West and he factored in all consequences before he got involved with Ukraine. Putin expected the West to apply sanctions on him based on the West's reputation for handling things and so far, he is right to believe the sanctions and some arms support to Ukraine is all he'll have to endure. Putin proceeded with his goals knowing that Russia will have to endure those consequences and Putin believes he will win since the West isn't going to shed blood over Ukraine.


Russia has the resources to build and operate a military. Sanctions aren't going to stop Putin and as a matter of fact, Putin is increasing military spending this year by 30%. Putin is more focused on his military more than fixing his economy and it will pay off if he steals land or gain control over a number of countries. USSR created one of the most powerful militaries on earth without doing business with the West. Putin knows the inside scoop on that.


Sanctions hasn't stopped Cuba, North Korea, or Iran. They certainly won't stop Russia. The West should've done something Putin didn't expect and that is have a strong show of military force in or at the border of Ukraine. Putin does care about winning and about Russia and knowing he'll lose and lose a lot of Russians, he'll back off. Bringing sanctions to a gun fight isn't going to change the situation. A lot of people here laugh at Russia's misery brought on by the sanctions but unless we get tougher, I see Putin having the last laugh.

[TheBullRDR]

Gentlemen,

I believe that the original post was tongue-in-cheek jest.

if it was, that wasn't the way I read it and therefore apologize for my little rant.  If it wasn't,  then the rant stands. 

[TheBullRDR]

Whether some people like to hear this or not, Putin is smart. He didn't wake up one night and decide he'd walk into Ukraine without planning. He had a contingency plan if Ukraine ever thought about joining the West and he factored in all consequences before he got involved with Ukraine. Putin expected the West to apply sanctions on him based on the West's reputation for handling things and so far, he is right to believe the sanctions and some arms support to Ukraine is all he'll have to endure. Putin proceeded with his goals knowing that Russia will have to endure those consequences and Putin believes he will win since the West isn't going to shed blood over Ukraine.


Russia has the resources to build and operate a military. Sanctions aren't going to stop Putin and as a matter of fact, Putin is increasing military spending this year by 30%. Putin is more focused on his military more than fixing his economy and it will pay off if he steals land or gain control over a number of countries. USSR created one of the most powerful militaries on earth without doing business with the West. Putin knows the inside scoop on that.


Sanctions hasn't stopped Cuba, North Korea, or Iran. They certainly won't stop Russia. The West should've done something Putin didn't expect and that is have a strong show of military force in or at the border of Ukraine. Putin does care about winning and about Russia and knowing he'll lose and lose a lot of Russians, he'll back off. Bringing sanctions to a gun fight isn't going to change the situation. A lot of people here laugh at Russia's misery brought on by the sanctions but unless we get tougher, I see Putin having the last laugh.

You're right.  I'm sure he did think things out.  one problem though, in no way did he figure on oil being 46 a barrel.   that is what is hurting the worst and could throw his carefully laid out plan into total chaos.  Now that he's cracked open the reserves a second time, he is hurting a whole lot worse than his plan said he would be. 

[Chelseaboy]

TheBullRDR,

                   Yep,where were you when our civilians were getting blitzed by the Germans ?

You see when one of your mouthy countrymen comes on here and calls us "Gutless wonders" because we don't charge into Ukraine all guns blazing,as if you're better than us,then the comparison about the USA's reluctance to get involved in World War 11 is a fair comparison.

Does that mean we're better or more courageous fighters than you ?..nope....but you're no better than us either...and the point was made that you weren't so great without our help in Vietnam...despite the obvious feeling of superiority displayed by the original  USA "Gutless Wonders " poster.

Of course it's easy for a USA poster married to a woman from Ukraine to sit on his arse and belittle other countries for not going to war and rescue his wife's country,losing untold thousands of men in the process..maybe he should get off his backside and go and fight in Ukraine for her honour..unless of course he's a "Gutless wonder " himself.

[Chelseaboy]

cc3,

      I'm not the one full of crap..that honour belongs to you.

I've asked you to show where my post was totally wrong....but you continue to deflect with your BS .

I don't have to prove anything to you.....you're just some internet forum poster...nobody special/important.

You believe what you want to believe..i really couldn't care less,it won't affect my life one jot.

Sorry to burst your bubble of self-importance...but hey that's reality kicking-in.

[BillyB]

in no way did he figure on oil being 46 a barrel.   

Some may think Putin has no control over the price of oil but he does. If Putin promotes a war in the Middle East, the price of oil will go back up. He can also jack up the price on natural gas to Europe or shut it off if he wants to play hardball. Putin continues to play like he's not involved in Ukraine and is innocent. When he decides to get tough of the West, we may not like when he exercises his options.

[jone]

Some may think Putin has no control over the price of oil but he does. If Putin promotes a war in the Middle East, the price of oil will go back up. He can also jack up the price on natural gas to Europe or shut it off if he wants to play hardball. Putin continues to play like he's not involved in Ukraine and is innocent. When he decides to get tough of the West, we may not like when he exercises his options.

I will grant you that it is a powder keg.  But I believe that it is Putin who will not like what he sees if he "Exercises his options".  His ability to dictate diminishes daily.

[TheBullRDR]

I see your point, but as a soldier it got my blood up.  I don't think we're better than you nor do I think you're gutless.  I think that you have been some of our closest allies and I'm not real sure why the gutless wonder comment was made, unless, like jone said, it was tongue in cheek. 

 And as far as Viet Nam, our poor performance there had nothing to do with lack of foreign support.  It was lack of support from ourselves.  We proved once and for all there that politicians should never be involved in war time decisions, yet we continue to let them dictate how we fight.   Retarded, in my book.  War is an extension of politics by other means.  That means normal politics has failed, so shut up and get out of the way.  If you're to the point of using your military, you should remove  the leash and let them go.  Using a soldiers life for political maneuvering is crap. 

[Taz]

Let's drop the infighting. The real enemy is Putin. I lived in Russia and I get it. I understand him better than most foreigners. I have some very deep, long friendships (over 20 years) with Russians and it has put a severe strain on some of these relastionhips and destroyed others due to Russia's aggression.


As for volunteering it is a very difficult road to walk at the moment in the US. Doing that would potentially get you lumped in the terrorist running to help out ISIS and have the US government all over you.


I spoke about doing this with my wife today and the reaction was very mixed. I know I could be an asset. I have the kind of experience they need. Downside is my Ukrainian isn't that great though my Russian is excellent. So a challenge for almost all English speakers that want to volunteer would be the language barrier. In wartime this is an area where it will get you killed or you could kill someone else if you don't have effective communication.


At the crux of the issue is would I be willing to put my life on the line to stand up for the principles I believe in? Hell yea! I have done so already and would do so in the future. I strongly believe in this fight as I know how evil Putin is. I am not some gung-ho grunt with a myopic view of the world thinking the US can do now wrong. Damn if we haven't so many things wrong because of our lame-a$$ President Obam. I am very well educated and lived in several countries other than the US. I wouldn't rush into this fight but I won't back away from it either. Sadly the more days pass the less effective diplomacy will be.


The US and a European coalition need to start indicating they will very effectively arm the Ukrainians and also train them. I would be more than willing to train them first hand. All I am willing to say on a public forum is I've done more than my share behind the scenes where I can legally to help and if more people were like my wife the Russians would be crushed based on willpower and sacrifice like hers.


I hate war but sometimes it is unavoidable. Sadly we are closer to the line each day this conflict drags on. The rest of Europe is likely to get sucked into as well. As for Merkel, she exhibits Stockholm Syndrome in some ways. Being under Soviet control during her childhood predisposes her to the Russian even though she hated being under their thumb. I have seen this at work in a lot of other people who even though they hated the rule of Russia while under it, still end up aligning with it later.