hi, newbie here. where can I go to find a discussion of legitimate sites?

[justtiredofthescams]

I have on no y found sites that either scammed me or else had tons of scammers on them. It has me so gun shy I am finding myself to unusally distrustful of everybody now.
one site was reasonable but it was full of scammers. Another site was such a scam I could see it immediately. The last site I tried hooked me and clipped for 3 or 4 thousand dollars before I realized I was getting scammed. I started this journey a year and a half ago and have been clipped for a total of 6 or 7 thouand dollars. I guess I am a bit of a sucker. Oh well! At least I found you people. Now if I can get a little guidance... maybe I can get this done correctly.

[Shadow]

The first thing you might try is using sites that do not charge money for correspondence, and no or a small fee for contact details. That way at least the site itself has no interest to scam you.
As for detecting which women are sincere and which are not, brush up your English use as what you write now will hardly be understood by someone reading a foreign language. Use short sentences without slang, proper punctuation.
Do not send generic letters but read a profile and look closely at the pictures. Ask specific questions about the pictures, her city and other things, for some you may already have Googled the answers.
If they are not adressed, move on. If you get long generic letters without specifics, move on.
If you feel there is mutual interest, get her Skype and communicate directly. Also get her number and call, even if it may be hard to communicate.
Once that is successful, go make a trip. Be ready to travel within 3-6 months, or expect interest to fade away.

[justtiredofthescams]

Thanks for the reply. Do you know of any sites? Is there somewhere on this forum that has a list of safe places? I have found dozens of reviews but I have become so jaded over the last year and a half that I don't really trust the review sites either. Some are obviously "review sites" that have been created to sell one agency or another. I just need to find somewhere out there where I can feel that people are just being honest.

[Hammer2722]

Try this thread:


http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=14615.0

[BillyB]

Is there somewhere on this forum that has a list of safe places?

There could be scammers at every site. You still have to watch your back but the sites recommended here aren't plagued with scams.

 I just need to find somewhere out there where I can feel that people are just being honest.

There's nobody 100% honest. You're going to be disappointed if you're looking for perfection. Use your big head, not the little, when evaluating women. What's worse than a scammer is an insincere woman that can cost a lot more if you marry her.


Your biggest problem is your falling into scams more than the average guy. A respectable woman wouldn't want to marry a man who makes a lot of mistakes so you're going to attract a lot of insincere women. Do lots of reading here to educate yourself to be better prepared on what you're getting in to. You'll save money and have a higher chance at success.

[Gator]

The last site I tried hooked me and clipped for 3 or 4 thousand dollars before I realized I was getting scammed. I started this journey a year and a half ago and have been clipped for a total of 6 or 7 thouand dollars.

 


Hope you find your time with RWD helpful.  The money you wasted could have funded a couple of trips to the FSU.  Yet it is never too late to start again, and this time to it properly.   


It will help us to help you if we knew more about you.  We have an Introductions sub-forum for that purpose.


It has been years and years since I last wrote introductions to RW, yet I had great success when in the hunt.  I assure you that you can find fine women sincerely interested in meeting foreign men for the eventual purpose of marriage and family life.  Here are some hints (exceptions exist):


-  The photos and profiles of sincere RW will seem amateurish compared to women who are more interested in getting your money than in getting to know you.


-  Keep your introduction brief, yet say something about why you find a woman interesting (it has to be specific to each woman and not refer to her physical beauty).   


-  After establishing contact with a sincere woman, she likely will want to Skype with you frequently.


-  They will proceed slowly, yet after a month or so they will consider meeting you at their hometown if they like you.  It is a good sign if they say something about meeting their friends and family while in her hometown.


-   They will not fall in love on the Internet. 


-   They will not ask for money.


-   They will avoid the subject of sex and anything deeply personal.
   

-   Even though you were a sucker, do not come across as a sucker.  Sound confident (RW respect "strong" men).





For dating sites, Hammer's link is a good one.

[justtiredofthescams]

Hammer's link?
The site that scammed me was charming date. I should have known better. In a way I did. I signed up just to browse. I did that with several sites. Elena's being one of them. I promised myself that I wouldn't get involved with one of those pay per letter sites but... well I got one introduction letter that caught me. Dancing with fire..... ooops!
I knew better but I just thought that just maybe. This girl said she owned a candy/pastry store. I am a chef and had just started exploring pasteries. (By the way, if anyone wants some recipes... I just came up with a Black and Tan cheesecake made with Bass and Guiness on a pretzel crust. Salty, sweet, and bitter. INCREDIBLE!)
I am still not sure I was being scammed. She wanted me to visit after a coupleof months and therewere other indications that she was real. The big thing that makes me think it was all a scam was that I found out that she is an actress. All of the pictures she sent me can be found on her instagram account. No, I was not cyberstalking her. When I pa I d for her contact information and it was incomplete, a digit short on her phone number I did some investigating and I found her. It was quiet a shock. Her profile has been deleted now.
We ended our deal because she insisted that I come to visit right after we had a family tragedy, my nephew died. I stayed to help my mom, brother, niece, and nephew instead of running to see her. I tols her to wait a couple of months but... Well if she was real she was too narcissistic for me to want to deal with anyway.
I do appreciate everyone's input.
I just saw Hammer's link. Thanks! I'll check it out.

[Hammer2722]

Hammer's link?
The site that scammed me was charming date. I should have known better. In a way I did. I signed up just to browse. I did that with several sites. Elena's being one of them. I promised myself that I wouldn't get involved with one of those pay per letter sites but... well I got one introduction letter that caught me. Dancing with fire..... ooops!
I knew better but I just thought that just maybe. This girl said she owned a candy/pastry store. I am a chef and had just started exploring pasteries. (By the way, if anyone wants some recipes... I just came up with a Black and Tan cheesecake made with Bass and Guiness on a pretzel crust. Salty, sweet, and bitter. INCREDIBLE!)
I am still not sure I was being scammed. She wanted me to visit after a coupleof months and therewere other indications that she was real. The big thing that makes me think it was all a scam was that I found out that she is an actress. All of the pictures she sent me can be found on her instagram account. No, I was not cyberstalking her. When I pa I d for her contact information and it was incomplete, a digit short on her phone number I did some investigating and I found her. It was quiet a shock. Her profile has been deleted now.
We ended our deal because she insisted that I come to visit right after we had a family tragedy, my nephew died. I stayed to help my mom, brother, niece, and nephew instead of running to see her. I tols her to wait a couple of months but... Well if she was real she was too narcissistic for me to want to deal with anyway.
I do appreciate everyone's input.
I just saw Hammer's link. Thanks! I'll check it out.

You need to understand that every site, be it pay-per-letter or monthly pay site will have scammers. The scammers are quite easy to spot. You just need to go into this using your big head and not falling in love with just a photo. Skype is one of the best ways to filter out the Nigerian, Ghanan scammers. Do not spend months and months on communications. If you find someone you have a great connection with on Skype then get on a plane.


Remember to make all the arrangements yourself. Apartment, taxi, etc. Also, try to limit yourself to English speaking ladies unless you are willing to hire yourself an interpreter. Again, you find her and don't rely on the lady to do all the arrangements for you. Above all, never send money!!!!!

[CDW]

As Robert de Nero (in Meet The Parents) said to put your snake in the cage.   How is your snake when referring to the search?  Don't let your snake's brain do the work    (Hence, if you were looking for any hottest possible girl - avoid them).

Beautiful girls that are too good to be true - also to watch out for.  I am not saying that every 'beautiful girls that are too good to be true' are scammers - but do watch out for.

I do not know what you look like and how old are you?  If you are fat, bald, ugly, 60 years old are looking for 20 years old model, then you are 99% more chance to get scammed.  You need to find that lucky 1%

You need to remember that outer beauty will faded in time.

You will have to spot ladies that tell lies.   For example, once a model-looking lady told me that she is a doctor.  Few days later when I got webcam with her, I told her that I had very bad headache.  She did not say anything at all.   BEING A DOCTOR!!!

Another lady told me that she is an Interior designer, but I could see the background from her house that it was very poor layout and design, and bad colour combinations, so I knew she isn't an Interior designer.   Only in her dreams!

I have had few ladies from The Phillipines in the past that said "My birthday is coming up"  but I can read date of birth in their profiles - and they weren't "coming up".  I confronted them.   They made excuses that their sisters/friends/cousins made the profiles for them.   No difference still false information!!! 

That's some examples......


I have NEVER once in my life been asked for $$$ by any FSU women though at many times I was asked to send less than $200 on various occasions by Filippinas.

[Muzh]

Hammer's link?
The site that scammed me was charming date. I should have known better. In a way I did. I signed up just to browse. I did that with several sites. Elena's being one of them. I promised myself that I wouldn't get involved with one of those pay per letter sites but... well I got one introduction letter that caught me. Dancing with fire..... ooops!

Hey Bud, 


One thing you will find in this here forum and many others is that you cannot get scammed if you don't send money. No matter what.


The second advice is, be realistic. If it is too good to be true, it is.


Good luck.

[Gator]

Hey JTofScams,


Go to RWD's home page.  You will find at the bottom of the page some anti-scam links such as this one listing Ten Commandments:


http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?action=ezportal;sa=page;p=34


You are not the first to be scammed, and many victims years before you helped develop the anti-scam material. 

[GQBlues]

I have on no y found sites that either scammed me or else had tons of scammers on them. It has me so gun shy I am finding myself to unusally distrustful of everybody now. one site was reasonable but it was full of scammers. Another site was such a scam I could see it immediately. The last site I tried hooked me and clipped for 3 or 4 thousand dollars before I realized I was getting scammed. I started this journey a year and a half ago and have been clipped for a total of 6 or 7 thouand dollars. I guess I am a bit of a sucker. Oh well! At least I found you people. Now if I can get a little guidance... maybe I can get this done correctly.

Do you mind telling us exactly in what manner does one take 1.5 years and $7,000.00 later does one finally determine he's getting suckered?

I can't even begin to imagine how one can invest that much time and/or money and not have a clue they're getting juiced.

Maybe someone can lend you a magic wand and direct you to a scammer-free experience, but the truth of the matter is, the phrase..'you can lead the horse to water, but you can't make it drink' seem rather appropriate here.

Mind telling us how you spent that much money? Was it just for correspondence? Were you sending money? Gifts?

Like I said, I can't picture myself in that type of a situation so I'm asking what drove you, or guys like you, to ride that experience. What was the driving motivation that likely defied both your instinct and sense of logic and steered ahead with reckless abandon?

Lastly, if I were you, you should consider contacting someone like 'Mila' if you want to pursue this avenue further. Or consider investing in yourself and giving dating at home an honest try. How old are you?

[southernX]

 JUSTTIREDOF THE SCAMS ,

if you want to move forward with this , id suggest you dont post up  all your past experiences with scammers on here , others only want to chew over your mistakes and lay ridicule to them , so dont imo

if you need specific advice , choose a wise /knowlegable poster or two and pm them , pick their brains from their experience

id also highly reccomend you investigate yourself , if you havent already done that , discover what makes you tick , your likes,  dislikes , personality profile etc , almost an essential tool to know yourself first imo

define your search clearly , make a plan that can be flexible as you go

look for a lady who is no more than 10 years younger or older than you !!

dont send any money , real FSU ladys will not ask you for any , once you have been and met , developed a relatiionship then maybe send money if it is justified , by that stage you will/should know either way

travel within 3-4 months of initial contact ,

 

stick to what you say you will do , keep your word in all things if you wish to develop a deep trust as you start any relationship , no swap and change routines , make your decisions carefully and then stick to them mate !!!

scammers can be found anywhere , read all you can here and it will develop your skills in picking them up early on

choose the advice /information you find here that suits you , pick out what you think will work for your individual needs & situation
fwiw , i used elenas models , found them to be very good , with min scammers

SX

[justtiredofthescams]

Thanks Southern, I see that already. I appreciate the advice all the same. I also want to thank the rest of you who offer constructive advice.
A couple of you asked me to describe myself. Fine. In breif, I am 50 years old. I am about 5'5" and 135 lbs. I look pretty young for my age. Probably 35 to 40 is what most people guess. I am an executive chef a a pretty decent sized restaurant that has 5 banquet rooms. We stay very busy when in season. Imcannot travel those months except maybe I can get away for a week in January.
Financially I make a decent living but I am not buying up wall street any time soon. I am a few years away from owning my house free ans clear and own a little pickup truck thatbis very clean and runs great but it is 15 years old. It doesn't matter. I like it and it has sentimental value. I can afford to raise a small family without help but we would need to stick to a reasonable budget.
Now as far as getting suckered.... Most of the money went to Charmng Date, 5-7 dollars per letter, flowers at 75-150 a pop, 150 for contact information that was incomplete and useless. Allof that was over a 6 month period communicating with a girl who I have since found out is an actress and all of the pictures that were sent could have been taken from her instagram page. I know it is a common scam and I was just one of thousands that have fallen for it.
My journey began on Rose Brides. Almost every girl I came accross there asked me for money. I sent one a little to help her with her travel expenses but it was a negligible amount. She said she needed more and I realized it was a scam. Usually I am pretty cautious and I had read the warnings. I had exchanged emails with this girl for 3 months. She wanted to meet but the t7ming was bad for me so.... Yes I know I shouldn't have done it. Once again, I am not the first nor will I be the last to fall for that deal.
one other scam that I ran into was a girl who said her computer broke. She then said she was using an internet cafe but it was expensive. A week later she said she found UA brides who would allow her to use the computer anytime she wanted. They gave me 10 free letters tyen they wanted to start charging me. The site reeked of being a scam worse than Charming Date. They got nothing from me. So really, Charming Date was the only one that got me bad. That should answer your question GQ.
So chew away everybody! I know I got suckered but I am not the only one. I am not happy about it but it is in the past and I learned from it. My main reason for coming here was to find sites that at least did a little vetting of their female members. I realize that scammers still get through and I need to be careful but that is the way unscrupulous people work. My goal was to find some reputable sites. Hammer's link gave that to me. Thanks again Hammer! I'll browse these sites and find one I like the most and use it when I am ready.
I know I probanly won't be abe to travel for 9 or 10 months so I guess I will just follow everyone's advice and read and do my homework for a little while. By then I will be able to start preplanning a trip for next summer. Next February or March I will start looking for a few girls to go and visit. I think that sounds like a good plan.
Thanks for your help everybody.

[BillyB]

She wanted me to visit after a couple of months

We ended our deal because she insisted that I come to visit right after we had a family tragedy, my nephew died. I stayed to help my mom, brother, niece, and nephew instead of running to see her. I tols her to wait a couple of months but... Well if she was real she was too narcissistic for me to want to deal with anyway.

Bottom line is you communicated with the lady 2 months and couldn't make a decision. Although you had a family tragedy, an excuse is an excuse. If you needed time off from the romance after your nephew died, you should have told her you need to go into seclusion for 2 months and will write her when you're done. You were never serious about her. You could have agreed to meet and order the tickets two months from her request. Instead you wanted to communicate with her and waste another 2 months of her life since you gave no guarantees. A person can't be wasting 4 months of their life for everybody that writes them. I know you have doubts about this woman's sincerity but you should have stopped paying to write her as soon as you've had doubts. You don't deserved to be scammed but women don't deserve to waste their time on guys that are keyboard romeos. It's been said 5% of the men who write women over there get on the plane. Don't be one of the many guys that waste women's time. Not many women are going to wait for you more than 2 months to make a decision.

I know I probanly won't be abe to travel for 9 or 10 months so I guess I will just follow everyone's advice and read and do my homework for a little while. By then I will be able to start preplanning a trip for next summer. Next February or March I will start looking for a few girls to go and visit. I think that sounds like a good plan.
Thanks for your help everybody.

When you get back to writing ladies, have a plan to move on from letters a little faster. Get on the phone and/or Skype with them. If you can't hold a conversation with them on the phone or Skype, you probably shouldn't be wasting thousands of dollars visiting them. When you're talking to them live, you will get a good reading on if their happy to talk to you. An insincere woman is not going to enjoy you calling often unless you sending her money. You've ran into a lot of insincere women. Do a better job finding winners instead of losers.

[Faux Pas]

justtired

How old were these gals that you feel scammed you?

[justtiredofthescams]

25- 35 Ya I know! Don't bother. I have already read about the 10 year age difference thing.
Once again. I only think I was really scammed once. Well maybe twice. The first got very little money. It didn't really matter. The second was not a girl as much as it was probably an agency,  Charming Date. The girl I was writing to and sending flowers and what not turned out to be an up and coming actress. Her career seems to be just starting to take off. I am pretty certain it was not her that was writing to me. All of the pictures she sent I later found on her instagram page. She seems to be very active in her career. It doesn't make sense that she would be looking to marry someone in the US and leave a budding career behind. Maybe I am wrong but probably not. Doesn't Charming Date  and other sites like theirs have a reputation for hijacking ladies profiles then leading men along and milking them for money?
I have rehashed this enough. Thanks again for everyone's input.

[southernX]

JTOS

id suggest you dont post up  all your past experiences with scammers on here , others only want to chew over your mistakes and lay ridicule to them , so dont imo

I have rehashed this enough. Thanks again for everyone's input.

 

your making progress already 


now given the game your in , you will be id expect be very busy quite often , and not able to get free for vacation time to meet up with a suitable lady should you find one at the drop of  a hat
so id suggest you plan out your schedule around your slack times on the work calendar , off season etc and start your contacts with that in mind , as said most ladys wont hang around waiting on a visit for more than 3-5 months

if you wish to have kids /start a family , dont look under the age of 35 if your 50 forget how young you look , cause everyone in this game thinks they look ten years younger, you may well be so , but keep it realistic , stack the odds in your favour imo

oh and one other thing i forgot to mention , and its a big one ,
make the commitment to this , i mean really commit to it , given your work you should be thinking about how will your job impact your relationship  when you have a lady come to you in tampa etc , how much time off work or juggling around your work can you have to support her etc etc
this is a long term commitment you will be making , think it through and flexibly plan around what you think will work

SX

[justtiredofthescams]

One more time....thanks!
For now my plan is this....
For now I just shop the sites on that list. A couple look pretty good. I have to sign up on them tocheck them out but I won't be active on them until February. I figure just before valentines day ought to be an ideal time.
that will five me 3 and a half months until things slow down enough for me to take a week or two off. I will plan my trip for late May or early June. That should work for any girl I meet. It will give me time to sort through my options and perhaps find someone who finds me attractive and who I like too.
After we meet we'll see what happens. I can't really plan beyond that since I don't know how the meeting will go nor do I know what she will want or need.
If this doesn't work then I can just wash, rinse and repeat again next year.
As far as my schedule at work goes.... my sous chefs work when I don't want to or else can't. I need to be there to do my stuff but I still write the schedule. Holidays will be an issue but the l6cky thing for me is that Orthodox Holidays are not the same. We will just celbrate then. Mother's day will suck. I always need to go in by 6 a.m. every holiday. I will be up front and honest about that. There is nothing I can do. The good thing is that if she doesn't like to cook or if she likes to cook with a partner I am pretty qualified to handle that. Whatever works though. I am pretty flexible.
Thanks again for your constructive comments.

[southernX]

JTOS

beign a chef working in a busy place its a given your flexible , part of the game your in , so it sounds like your on the right track to me with what youve posted

something to ponder is over  time are you able to get into a admin type role in hospitality to make your work schedule more family friendly ?? cause as im sure you know it is  a killer on a lot of relationships

if your long term plan is start a family its something to consider imo
SX

[Shadow]

One more thing to consider is the follow up. You will make an exploration trip where you may hit the ground for about one week (if you exclude the travel time). Now what do you expect from this? A first trip is simply exploring, and to see if you wish to start a relationship. If the woman has to wait a full year for the next date, it is not very likely she will keep her interest.
I understand you can not and should not make any plans, as thngs may turn out negative and you might have to wait another year. But if you do hit the jackpot, you have to know how to move things forward.

[justtiredofthescams]

Shadow, your point is taken but that is like step 458 and I am still on step one. I have miles to go before that will be an issue but by here it goes...
I have somewhere between 220 and 235 hours of vacation saved. I will acumulate another 120 this year but it caps at 240 so by next spring I will be at 240. I can easily get away for a couple of more trips during 4he summer or else she can come here but since summer sucks in Florida I wouod think she might want me to come there. Later, in the winter maybe she could come here. If I can find a slower week and get a few extra days off that would work. If she came in January, we always have a lull from late December until mid February. That would be ideal. She could come visit when it is cold and have a little break from the snow.....
like I said that is miles down the road but there are options that we could take. The only real big problem is that I can ony safely take 9 days at a time. Maybe I could do a little more but I would need to play that by ear. It depends on what is going on at work and who I have supporting me there. It's a busy kitchen. I will definitely lose a few guys this year because they either will find a better position somewhere else or they might get burned out and quit or they might screw up and need to be let go. I lose 3 or 4 a year on average. That doesn't include the dish guys. Those poor people have the toughest job in the joint. I try to make it as easy as possible but even so it sucks.
You just never know how things will work out. I have three and a half months in the summer and a month and a half in the winter to work things out. And I can do 3 or 4 day weekends on occasion during the rest of the time. I think that should be enough to play with. If it isn't then I have not done a good enough job picking the right girl.
Actually, that is a good point. I will not make definitive plans but I will bounce some of these thoughts off of which ever lady I find to make sure it will work for her before I waste our time and find out if my availability is not up to her needs.
I'm glad you guys are bringing these points up. It helps me to clarify plans and options. I will keep your point in mind. Thanks
Back to my original topic.... I found what I believe is a pretty good site from that list. Freeukrainwomen.com. I also have been in touch with a lady named Irina who operates that site and another in Russia. She also runs an antiscammer site. She seems pretty cool. She set me straight, really just confirmed my belief, as far as Charming Date is concerned.
Does anyone have any specific information about freeukrainwomen.com? Has anyone had any dealings me with Irina?

[Shadow]

I know many things that are thrown in seem like far ahead of where you are. Just understand that you spent already some time and money chasing a dream, and now the idea is to change it to a reality.
The tme doing your homework is not just looking at sites to find someone, but also to prepare if this really is something for you. Best to prepare yourself for issues and problems you may encounter, and see if any would be a deal breaker now rather than finding out another two years and lots of cash later on.
The short visit time can be a postitive if it allows you to pull off more frequent visits during courting rather than being a negative.
During seeking it will also remove the need of having multiple women lined up as backup plan, alternative plans can be just turning tourist.
As for the site, being a married man I have not knowledge of current sites, but I will see the tech info later today.

[Faux Pas]

25- 35 Ya I know! Don't bother. I have already read about the 10 year age difference thing.
Once again. I only think I was really scammed once. Well maybe twice. The first got very little money. It didn't really matter. The second was not a girl as much as it was probably an agency,  Charming Date. The girl I was writing to and sending flowers and what not turned out to be an up and coming actress. Her career seems to be just starting to take off. I am pretty certain it was not her that was writing to me. All of the pictures she sent I later found on her instagram page. She seems to be very active in her career. It doesn't make sense that she would be looking to marry someone in the US and leave a budding career behind. Maybe I am wrong but probably not. Doesn't Charming Date  and other sites like theirs have a reputation for hijacking ladies profiles then leading men along and milking them for money?
I have rehashed this enough. Thanks again for everyone's input.

So, if you already know everything what are you doing here and how did you get scammed? Allow me to guess, they leaned pretty heavy to the 25 than 35?

Listen guy, most every man that comes along on these boards think they look 10-15 years younger than they actually do. The truth is that none of them do, you included.

You're 50 years old. You can reasonably expect to snag a FSUW in her early forties or you can keep rolling the bones hoping to find a sincere 25 year old but, don't hold your breath. It's going to be a wild and expensive ride.

Do you date 25-35 year olds back home? Do you date at all back home? If you are serious about this endeavor then, get serious and quit with the fantasies. You're not picking out a puppy or a fcuk doll. The first step you need to make is being realistic and don't believe the hype you are reading on the websites.

[Shadow]

So, if you already know everything what are you doing here and how did you get scammed? Allow me to guess, they leaned pretty heavy to the 25 than 35?

Listen guy, most every man that comes along on these boards think they look 10-15 years younger than they actually do. The truth is that none of them do, you included.

You're 50 years old. You can reasonably expect to snag a FSUW in her early forties or you can keep rolling the bones hoping to find a sincere 25 year old but, don't hold your breath. It's going to be a wild and expensive ride.

Do you date 25-35 year olds back home? Do you date at all back home? If you are serious about this endeavor then, get serious and quit with the fantasies. You're not picking out a puppy or a fcuk doll. The first step you need to make is being realistic and don't believe the hype you are reading on the websites.

Every man here looks 10-15 years below his age. Which explains why those 28-year-old have such trouble finding someone of their own age.