My Dilemma

[Chicagoguy]

First, congratulations to Viking and his wife.

It brings to my attention my current dilemma. My wife has been here 5 years now and when she arrived had no English. But it is certainly adequate now - at least for speaking And of course she has Permanent Residence card. But I am unable to get her to the last step of citizenship. She sees no purpose in it. I have told her all my reasons but to no avail so I am now considering making an appointment with a Russian speaking immigration attorney here in Chicago to convince her.

There are classes about 1/2 hour away but she won't go. Another thing is that she claims the test is too difficult. I have books in Russian by Kenneth White and Yegor Stotskiy plus Voices of Freedom by Bill Bliss but they go unread. Some of her friends are citizens but they seem to have waited years to finish.

Maybe I am wrong in pushing this ?

[Shadow]

It may be some other issues as the language. Perhaps you can fill her in better on the advantages, and make it clear that just because she obtains the US citizenship she can still hold the Russian one as well. One of the benefits of obtaining citizenship through marriage is that the denouncement of the original citizenship does not have to be made.

It would be beneficial for traveling, but most likely there would be other things that in the future could make it beneficial to be citizen.
Perhaps you should make a short summary of the benefits, and make clear there are little to no downsides as long as you do not visit Iraq or similar countries

[fathertime]

First, congratulations to Viking and his wife.

It brings to my attention my current dilemma. My wife has been here 5 years now and when she arrived had no English. But it is certainly adequate now - at least for speaking And of course she has Permanent Residence card. But I am unable to get her to the last step of citizenship. She sees no purpose in it. I have told her all my reasons but to no avail so I am now considering making an appointment with a Russian speaking immigration attorney here in Chicago to convince her.

There are classes about 1/2 hour away but she won't go. Another thing is that she claims the test is too difficult. I have books in Russian by Kenneth White and Yegor Stotskiy plus Voices of Freedom by Bill Bliss but they go unread. Some of her friends are citizens but they seem to have waited years to finish.

Maybe I am wrong in pushing this ?

My wife has also been here for over 5 years.  When she arrived we spoke about 90%Spanish, but now she speaks/understands/writes English very good (in my opinion).   We are at the same spot you are in regards to citizenship.  I think my wife could take a class and pass the citizenship test relatively easily, but she hasn't  been interested enough to do it YET, so I just let it be. She knows the citizenship laws at it pertains to her better than me, so I defer to her judgement.    My impression is that the test has to be taken within 10 years, but I can't remember if that is correct or not.


Fathertime!   

[calmissile]

ChicagoGuy,
My first guess is that your wife is clinging to her heritage and is not ready to let go.  My former wife is from Brazil and was in the US on a green card for 30 years.  She recently got her citizenship on her own without being prodded.  Personally, I would not push her. That can cause friction in the marriage. When she is ready she will do it on her own, including taking English classes if necessary.

One of our female members has been in the USA for about 25 or 30 years, and decided to get her US citizenship a few months ago.

Good luck..... relax.     

[BillyB]

Maybe I am wrong in pushing this ?

I don't see how citizenship is going to help a marriage. I wouldn't push it. You've educated her on the other benefits. When she's comfortable with change, she will make it.

[tfcrew]

    My impression is that the test has to be taken within 10 years, but I can't remember if that is correct or not.

 

There is no mandatory compliance to apply for citizenship.
However, the requirement to renew the residence card every 10 yrs remains.
One's passport expires after 10 yrs.
Cost wise therefore, citizenship remains ultimately more economical and there is the ability to travel as a US citizen if desired.

[Doll]

First, congratulations to Viking and his wife.

It brings to my attention my current dilemma. My wife has been here 5 years now and when she arrived had no English. But it is certainly adequate now - at least for speaking And of course she has Permanent Residence card. But I am unable to get her to the last step of citizenship. She sees no purpose in it. I have told her all my reasons but to no avail so I am now considering making an appointment with a Russian speaking immigration attorney here in Chicago to convince her.

There are classes about 1/2 hour away but she won't go. Another thing is that she claims the test is too difficult. I have books in Russian by Kenneth White and Yegor Stotskiy plus Voices of Freedom by Bill Bliss but they go unread. Some of her friends are citizens but they seem to have waited years to finish.

Maybe I am wrong in pushing this ?

Why do you need an attorney for this?
As for citizenship, she has a point. There is no difference for her in order to live here unless she will leave the US for a long time.
 

[Muzh]

Maybe I am wrong in pushing this ?

Yes.


Let her decide if and when she wants to do it.

[Doll]

CG, I'll save your money (on attorney))- what comes to visiting Russia, then she can't go there as an US citizen. As for other countries- then it would be easier of course.
Plus- she probably read the new RF "law".
Don't push it.

[2tallbill]

  There is no difference for her in order to live here unless she will leave the US for a long time.

Having a US passport is pretty handy for traveling to other countries.
If I for example want to go to Italy I just buy a ticket. Is it equally as
easy to do that with a Russian passport?

[fathertime]

There is no mandatory compliance to apply for citizenship.
However, the requirement to renew the residence card every 10 yrs remains.
One's passport expires after 10 yrs.
Cost wise therefore, citizenship remains ultimately more economical and there is the ability to travel as a US citizen if desired.

Thanks for clarification.

Having a US passport is pretty handy for traveling to other countries.
If I for example want to go to Italy I just buy a ticket. Is it equally as
easy to do that with a Russian passport?

After I read this, I brought it up with my wife and it pumped some renewed interest in her moving forward with the citizenship process.  I would like her to do it just so it is done, but only if she wants to. 


Fathertime!   

[Chicagoguy]

2tall bill - Are you sure she will need U.S. passport wherever she goes. We went to Canada 2 years ago and "Green Card" worked fine.

[2tallbill]

2tall bill - Are you sure she will need U.S. passport wherever she goes. We went to Canada 2 years ago and "Green Card" worked fine.

Nice to know that a Green Card works for travel to Canada. I don't
know how well a Green Card works for travel to other countries.

According to this article it seems that they might need an additional
visa to travel to many parts of Europe. Having said that, I have no
experience traveling with a Green Card.
http://traveltips.usatoday.com/can-permanent-resident-travel-europe-visa-108350.html

[pokerintherear]

CG

There are a few benefits of her having US citizenship. As mentioned certain travel could be less of a hassle. One other thing is possible benefits to her from your Social Security benefits if something would happen to you. Of course most responsible productive families don't count on SS for retirement. They build their own nest egg. Just something to look into if you wanted her to receive some extra financial help in the event of your death.

Other than that I would not push the issue. If you like the way your life feels with her at this time in life I would drop the subject. Go with the flow and enjoy your wife. What do you see changing with her obtaining citizenship?

Sometimes men get worked up over trivial things. ( woman also).  Forget the attorney and go on with life as you have been doing. One day she will come to you and request to file papers for citizenship. In the meantime try not to manipulate her decision. She will lose some respect for you.

IMO. I would say she is still not 100% sure about the security of her life in USA. In harsh terms............ She don't know if she wants to be buried on US soil. Maybe she see you passing before her and to survive would need to return to Russia to a life she knows.

[Turboguy]

As I understand it the advantages to citizenship are:

1.  You have all the paperwork behind you.  No worry about renewing your 10 year green card.  You are done and finished.

2.  Travel with a green card to Canada, Mexico or the Caribbean is easy but to visit Europe she would need to apply for a Schengen visa while you waltz right in with only your passport.

3.  Finances can be easier.  Some credit card companies will not issue a credit card to a non citizen but some will. No matter what you are doing citizenship can be an advantage in financial dealings.

4.  Social security is another area where citizenship is beneficial. 

There is no limit on how long someone can wait for citizenship.  I have a friend who was here on a greencard for 25 years before he applied for citizenship.

There isn't much to worry about as far as the tests.  There are 100 questions and they give you those in advance.  You only have to get 6 out of 10 right.

The English test is a breeze.   My wife had to be able to read "Who lives in the White House?"  and the write  "The President lives in the White House." to pass the English part of her test.

[Faux Pas]

Nice to know that a Green Card works for travel to Canada. I don't
know how well a Green Card works for travel to other countries.

According to this article it seems that they might need an additional
visa to travel to many parts of Europe. Having said that, I have no
experience traveling with a Green Card.
http://traveltips.usatoday.com/can-permanent-resident-travel-europe-visa-108350.html

For travel abroad a GC helps but definitely isn't a U.S. passport. The wife and I have visited several countries in Europe and the far east. She had a Russian passport and was treated as a Russian National and the U.S. Greencard meant little when applying for visas although it was a bit different in the Schengen zone.  I would recommend U.S. citizenship if that's a possibility if, you plan to travel much to places other than her home country. Canada and Mexico is no problem with a GC. They see them all the time but, for countries that don't the GC can be a tremendous hassle

[BorisS]

First, congratulations to Viking and his wife.

It brings to my attention my current dilemma. My wife has been here 5 years now and when she arrived had no English. But it is certainly adequate now - at least for speaking And of course she has Permanent Residence card. But I am unable to get her to the last step of citizenship. She sees no purpose in it. I have told her all my reasons but to no avail so I am now considering making an appointment with a Russian speaking immigration attorney here in Chicago to convince her.

There are classes about 1/2 hour away but she won't go. Another thing is that she claims the test is too difficult. I have books in Russian by Kenneth White and Yegor Stotskiy plus Voices of Freedom by Bill Bliss but they go unread. Some of her friends are citizens but they seem to have waited years to finish.

Maybe I am wrong in pushing this ?

I told Tanya it didn't matter to me if she became a US citizen or remained an LPR. At first she was ambivalent but the longer she lived here and she adjusted to American culture the more enthusiastic she became. She became a citizen in September. About 4 1/2 years after we were married. When she received her US passport she was as happy as a little child. She has been back to Ukraine 3 times since moving here but America is her home now.


I'm not sure I would push very hard on this issue. She may have deep psychological reasons not to want to become a citizen. But, I would definitely ask in a non-confrontational way just so you will know her reasons for your piece of mind.

[Chicagoguy]

My thanks to everyone who replied. It seems for some it is OK to wait and they eventually feel more comfortable. I will not force the issue. But she does now refer to U.S. as home.

One thing on her mind is 3 sisters still in Russia plus a daughter in Moscow. And most importantly is her father who turns 90 this January. I must respect her on this.

[ML]

I told Tanya it didn't matter to me if she became a US citizen or remained an LPR. At first she was ambivalent but the longer she lived here and she adjusted to American culture the more enthusiastic she became. She became a citizen in September. About 4 1/2 years after we were married. When she received her US passport she was as happy as a little child. She has been back to Ukraine 3 times since moving here but America is her home now.

One concern with Ukraine (unlike Russia) is that Ukraine officially does not allow dual citizenship.  This gives some pause to those who own property, have government retirement benefits, etc., in Ukraine.

To date, Ukraine has not done much about taking actions against those with dual citizenship; but that could change at any given moment.

[BorisS]

One concern with Ukraine (unlike Russia) is that Ukraine officially does not allow dual citizenship.  This gives some pause to those who own property, have government retirement benefits, etc., in Ukraine.

To date, Ukraine has not done much about taking actions against those with dual citizenship; but that could change at any given moment.

We operate under the "don't ask don't tell policy."

[AkMike]

One concern with Ukraine (unlike Russia) is that Ukraine officially does not allow dual citizenship.

 FYI, there's something new going on in Russia about dual passports. It's either in the Duma or just came out. Persons with dual citizenship must register the other passports. If it pertains to you check up on it.

 My wife has UA and US passports. We don't tell, but we use her internal passport when in UA for gov't paperwork and such.

[2tallbill]

I'm not sure I would push very hard on this issue. She may have deep psychological reasons not to want to become a citizen. But, I would definitely ask in a non-confrontational way just so you will know her reasons for your piece of mind.

Shy might, but much more likely it's just national pride. I know I would be
very dubious to give up my American passport. However, if some other
country gave me one I wouldn't turn it down if I could keep my American
citizenship and passport.

The do it and don't tell is probably the best policy and keep two passports

[Shadow]

Shy might, but much more likely it's just national pride. I know I would be
very dubious to give up my American passport. However, if some other
country gave me one I wouldn't turn it down if I could keep my American
citizenship and passport.

The do it and don't tell is probably the best policy and keep two passports

Unsure about UA and US, but I have found that both NL and RUS accept dual nationality in case of marriage. In time a dual passport is on the way for MrsShadow.

[2tallbill]

Unsure about UA and US, but I have found that both NL and RUS accept dual nationality in case of marriage. In time a dual passport is on the way for MrsShadow.

The US and UA don't allow it but if you don't bring it to their attention what will they
do?

Let's do a crazy hypothetical and say I went to NL and legitimately jumped
through thousands of hoops and various requirements to obtain a NL citizenship
and passport. What would the USA really be able to do to me? take my citizenship
away? I was freaking born here! unless I walked up to an USCIS official and waved
both passports in his face and said Na, Na, Na, Na I've got two passports what are
you gonna do about it!? you big girly-man sissy! nothing would happen to me.

If I was stupid enough to do the face-waving part, they might be able to take
my NL passport away and I would have to apply for a replacement.

[lordtiberius]

Good thread.  All comments worthy of praise