Edward Snowden nominated for Nobel peace prize

[calmissile]

That is not the most important oath he took, yet important.  His security clearance has oaths he took and are very specific about conduct and punishment.

Everyone above the level of 'confidential' has been briefed and signed multiple documents outlining their responsibilities and potential punishment if breached.

[Boethius]

Snowden claims he took no oaths to get his security clearance.  He states he had to sign an agreement, but the penalties for breach are civil, not criminal.

[Slumba]

My interpretation - Snowden viewed the "domestic enemies of the United States" as being - his bosses and their illegal programs at the NSA.  I don't know if he has ever stated it in those terms. 

Why isn't General Keith Alexander in the brig already, facing the death penalty, for HIS treason and his felonies?

[calmissile]

It is a mystery why you would tout the constitution as it pertains to Snowden....Snowden has helped prove that clearly the constitution is  not an unbreakable document....why would he suddenly rely on the very document he has shown was torn to shreds? Our own tax dollars are confiscated,and then spent on items most people would disapprove of.  For all we know, there is much more that even he didn't know...our govt. certainly has shown it can't be trusted.   


Fathertime!

It's getting painful to even try to reply to you.

I have a couple questions that I need answered to understand your mindset.

1.  Did you ever serve in any military, anywhere in the world?
2.  You  think that every American has a right to decide how their tax dollars are spent?  If so, please state the law or regulation that states this.  Please give me an example of any country in the world that each citizen can decide how their tax dollars are spent.

 I agree that no government can be trused without checks and balances.  In our case we have a president that ignores the constitution (and congress) and rules by executive order.  Perhaps you want to joint the conservatives this mid-term election and restore the rule of law.      

Congress should have impeached Obama before now.  Who knows how much more damage the Democrats can do in the next two years we are stuck with him?

[calmissile]

Snowden claims he took no oaths to get his security clearance.  He states he had to sign an agreement, but the penalties for breach are civil, not criminal.

I seriously doubt that is true, but am willing to see the evidence.  I have held various levels of security clearances for over 50 years and cannot remember any level that does not address espionage and it's punishment.

Seems to me the Walker father/son traitors got prosecuted, but maybe my memory is poor.  Old age, you know.   

[Boethius]

My interpretation - Snowden viewed the "domestic enemies of the United States" as being - his bosses and their illegal programs at the NSA.  I don't know if he has ever stated it in those terms. 

Why isn't General Keith Alexander in the brig already, facing the death penalty, for HIS treason and his felonies?

It would be interesting to see how any charges laid s a result of this surveillance would withstand a constitutional challenge. 

[Boethius]

I seriously doubt that is true, but am willing to see the evidence.  I have held various levels of security clearances for over 50 years and cannot remember any level that does not address espionage and it's punishment.

Seems to me the Walker father/son traitors got prosecuted, but maybe my memory is poor.  Old age, you know.   

But they were in the military.  The oath there is different, is it not?  They also sold secrets to the Soviets.  Snowden did not do that. 

[fathertime]

 I agree that no government can be trused without checks and balances.  In our case we have a president that ignores the constitution (and congress) and rules by executive order.  Perhaps you want to joint the conservatives this mid-term election and restore the rule of law.      

I will no longer vote for what you label as 'conservatives'.  I will also not be voting democrat either. 

I have a couple questions that I need answered to understand your mindset.

1.  Did you ever serve in any military, anywhere in the world?
2.  You  think that every American has a right to decide how their tax dollars are spent?  If so, please state the law or regulation that states this.  Please give me an example of any country in the world that each citizen can decide how their tax dollars are spent.

I'm not interested in discussion where my past experience lies, or where my ideas are derived.  If you choose to 'painfully respond' that is fine, otherwise you are not obligated.     


I would like to see citizens decide where their tax dollars can be spent.  I'd like to see a checklist of perhaps several dozen options.  Why should MY tax dollars be spent on certain programs that I vehemently oppose?  If you choose to spend YOUR dollars on those very options, that would be fine.    There can be a 'minimum' amount, or minimal reshuffling of some dollars, but not what is going on now. 

Fathertime! 

[calmissile]

But they were in the military.  The oath there is different, is it not?  They also sold secrets to the Soviets.  Snowden did not do that.

I believe the penalties are the same.  I am not sure whether the oaths are different.  Perhaps one of our retired US military can answer that question.   All of my clearances are from a military contractor viewpoint.  In those cases there is no ambiguity as to the responsibilities and potential punishment.

No,  Snowden did not sell secrets.......he gave them away.   The punishment is the same.
I don't recall if the Rosenberg's gave away our secrets for money or ideological reasons, but their punishment was appropriate.     

[calmissile]

It would be interesting to see how any charges laid s a result of this surveillance would withstand a constitutional challenge.

Interesting, and what do you assume that would constitutionally protect him?

[Anotherkiwi]

The winners of the prize deserved it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/11/world/asia/malala-yousafzai-youngest-nobel-peace-prize-winner-adds-to-her-achievements-and-expectations.html?_r=0

I could not agree more.      This young lady is an inspiration to us all.

[calmissile]

I could not agree more.      This young lady is an inspiration to us all.

Agree 100%.

[BillyB]

Snowden claims he took no oaths to get his security clearance.  He states he had to sign an agreement, but the penalties for breach are civil, not criminal.

He lied. Criminal charges are on the table for him. Here is an article written by a man who said he and people like Snowden has to sign Standard form 312 disclosing they could be subject to criminal charges if they handle sensitive information the wrong way.


http://freedom.press/blog/2014/01/secrecy-oaths-and-edward-snowden


http://www.archives.gov/isoo/security-forms/sf312.pdf

Snowden took an oath as a federal employee.  This is the oath -

[/size]I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.
[/size]
[/size]If Snowden believes his actions were to uphold the US constitution, then he didn't break that oath.

Some say he's helping America, most say he's not. If he finds something wrong at work, he needs to work different channels to address the situation with people who have security clearances, not steal information and give it away for free. Disclosing sensitive information actually helps the enemies of America, not defend.


Snowden will get the same trial everyone else in his shoes got if he comes back. He thinks it's not fair. Is he an expert at being fair?


Contrary to popular belief, the government doesn't listen to phone calls and read emails. Computers do. The computer take certain words and alert humans to determine what is said and if action should be taken. Obama, bomb, assassinate, are some of the words that computers focus on. Computers and government workers could care less if you're exchanging love letters with someone in an adulterous affair or listening to your daily gossip.


Our government can abused their power but they can also saves lives. Real abuse happens like when the IRS targets groups with political beliefs different than their own and action should be taken to stop that. I have faith the majority of people working in our intelligence agency have an interest in saving lives than abusing their powers.


Snowden is no hero. No country in the world is thinking about hiring him in their intelligence agencies. He is a rat and most countries in the world would put him on death row. Funny thing is what worried Snowden about government ease dropping on its citizens will happen everyday for the rest of his life in Russia. They are watching what he does and says. Freedom of speech can get him killed over there. He better be nice to the guy that feeds and houses him unlike what he done to America. Russia won't be as kind.

[tfcrew]

Edward Snowden and girlfriend reunited in Moscow, new documentary shows  11 Oct 2014    Edward Snowden, the former National Security Agency (NSA) contractor who blew the whistle on the US government's mass surveillance programs, has spoken for the first time about being reunited in Russia with his long-time girlfriend.   Lindsay Mills, who was living with Mr Snowden when he left Hawaii for Hong Kong in May 2013, joined him in Moscow in July 2014, according to a new documentary "Citizenfour" which was given its first screening on Friday.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/11155720/Edward-Snowden-and-girlfriend-reunited-in-Moscow-new-documentary-shows.html
/

Here she is putting her shoes on...
/

http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01744/SNN1213CNN-620_1744170a.jpg
/

More images...
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http://www.google.com/#q=snowden+girlfriend+pictures

[fathertime]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/11155720/Edward-Snowden-and-girlfriend-reunited-in-Moscow-new-documentary-shows.html
/

Here she is putting her shoes on...
/

http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01744/SNN1213CNN-620_1744170a.jpg
/

More images...
/

http://www.google.com/#q=snowden+girlfriend+pictures

Based on those pictures, it sure appears he must be suffering!
 


Fathertime! 

[Slumba]

Some say he's helping America, most say he's not. If he finds something wrong at work, he needs to work different channels to address the situation with people who have security clearances, not steal information and give it away for free. Disclosing sensitive information actually helps the enemies of America, not defend.


Snowden will get the same trial everyone else in his shoes got if he comes back. He thinks it's not fair. Is he an expert at being fair?


Contrary to popular belief, the government doesn't listen to phone calls and read emails. Computers do. The computer take certain words and alert humans to determine what is said and if action should be taken. Obama, bomb, assassinate, are some of the words that computers focus on. Computers and government workers could care less if you're exchanging love letters with someone in an adulterous affair or listening to your daily gossip.


Our government can abused their power but they can also saves lives. Real abuse happens like when the IRS targets groups with political beliefs different than their own and action should be taken to stop that. I have faith the majority of people working in our intelligence agency have an interest in saving lives than abusing their powers.

Not one single person has even been charged, and the evidence that Snowden disclosed of criminal wrongdoing at the NSA has been out there for months. 

There are the words of General Alexander under Congressional testimony, perjuring himself - no charges, not even a recommendation from Congress to investigate further.

The current unlawful laws in the USA say that Snowden could be assassinated by the Feds and it would be 100% legal. 

And you want him to come back and trust that the govt won't do that, but instead give him a completely fair and unbiased trial, after spending untold tens of Billions of dollars each year on the same programs that he exposed - is that what you think he should do? 

What do you think the outcome will be - that the Federal judiciary, 99.5% composed of lickspittle political appointees, will just bang their gavels and say "justice must be done" and all will be set right?

[BillyB]

And you want him to come back and trust that the govt won't do that, but instead give him a completely fair and unbiased trial, after spending untold tens of Billions of dollars each year on the same programs that he exposed - is that what you think he should do? 

There are ways to whistle blow while working at the NSA. Snowden decided to give all the information he had to everybody, including our adversaries. He knew he was in trouble so he ran. He ran away from what was coming, the things you don't like. He now wants to come back to America even at the risk of going to prison. I guess the grass wasn't greener on the other side.


Snowden wasn't a hero, he's a buddy fuker. He's the kind of guy that will stab you in the back while telling you he's doing it for your own good. Not many countries want him. Not many companies would give him a job. If you owned a company with trade secrets, would you hire Snowden? His girlfriend on the other hand is getting great exposure for associating with him. Could catapult her career.

[Slumba]

Snowden wasn't a hero, he's a buddy fuker. He's the kind of guy that will stab you in the back while telling you he's doing it for your own good. Not many countries want him. Not many companies would give him a job. If you owned a company with trade secrets, would you hire Snowden? His girlfriend on the other hand is getting great exposure for associating with him. Could catapult her career.

Wow - we will have to agree to disagree about that...  maybe I am just a lot more cynical about whether "working within the system" will get results. 

[fathertime]

He now wants to come back to America even at the risk of going to prison. I guess the grass wasn't greener on the other side.

I don’t think he really wants to come back to the USA.  He has no chance of a life here, even if he were found innocent, and he knows that.

There are ways to whistle blow while working at the NSA. Snowden decided to give all the information he had to everybody, including our adversaries. He knew he was in trouble so he ran. He ran away from what was coming, the things you don't like. He now wants to come back to America even at the risk of going to prison. I guess the grass wasn't greener on the other side.


Snowden wasn't a hero, he's a buddy fuker. He's the kind of guy that will stab you in the back while telling you he's doing it for your own good. Not many countries want him. Not many companies would give him a job. If you owned a company with trade secrets, would you hire Snowden? His girlfriend on the other hand is getting great exposure for associating with him. Could catapult her career.

Sometimes it takes a gutsy guy willing to put it all out there.  Had he gone through channels we probably still wouldn't know squat.  He gave the USA the finger, and the departments he exposed deserved it.   We are going around acting like the moral police of the world, yet our people are secretly losing more privacy and freedoms regularly.   The underbelly has been exposed, and many of the people don’t like what was/is going on.  It has further eroded the false sense of trust our govt. has tried to cultivate.  Without a doubt we are hurtling towards 1984 here in the USA.  Our nation is replete with double think, big brother, and, our own version of the ‘ministry of truth’. 


I’ve always been predisposed to like when a lone wolf makes a stand against the paralyzing system he was a part of…and so are a lot of others!  Although I'd like it to, it probably won't end well for Snowden.  One way or another he probably will have a lot to worry about.  You really can't do what he did, and get away unscathed.
Fathertime! 

[BillyB]

Wow - we will have to agree to disagree about that...  maybe I am just a lot more cynical about whether "working within the system" will get results.

When Snowden signed up with the spy agency, what did he expect to find? This world is one big happy place? Snowden knew he broke the law and ran after he did. That is not how heroes act. If he did something lawful for the benefit of the nation, he wouldn't need to run. Although I don't like Obama and he's been deceptive many times, I trust the American government on keeping Americans safe more than Snowden.

I don’t think he really wants to come back to the USA.  He has no chance of a life here, even if he were found innocent, and he knows that.

It's all over the internet. Snowden wants to come home but first he wants the laws to change in his favor before doing so.

Had he gone through channels we probably still wouldn't know squat. 

Ever since 9/11, we knew our government were listening more on phone calls. Snowden didn't even try to go through proper channels. If he did, I'm sure nobody would listen to him. Snowden is a lone wolf not because he's a good guy, but an oddball who didn't honor his contract. There are thousands of people who worked at various intelligence agencies past and present. Snowden is an angel? Everybody else is evil for keeping a secret? I don't think so. How many lives did Snowden save doing what he did? How many lives did he cost?

[calmissile]

I don’t think he really wants to come back to the USA.  He has no chance of a life here, even if he were found innocent, and he knows that.

Sometimes it takes a gutsy guy willing to put it all out there.  Had he gone through channels we probably still wouldn't know squat.  He gave the USA the finger, and the departments he exposed deserved it.   We are going around acting like the moral police of the world, yet our people are secretly losing more privacy and freedoms regularly.   The underbelly has been exposed, and many of the people don’t like what was/is going on.  It has further eroded the false sense of trust our govt. has tried to cultivate.  Without a doubt we are hurtling towards 1984 here in the USA.  Our nation is replete with double think, big brother, and, our own version of the ‘ministry of truth’. 


I’ve always been predisposed to like when a lone wolf makes a stand against the paralyzing system he was a part of…and so are a lot of others!  Although I'd like it to, it probably won't end well for Snowden.  One way or another he probably will have a lot to worry about.  You really can't do what he did, and get away unscathed.
Fathertime!

We totally agree on the gradual loss of our liberties.  Not only have I read 1984 many times, I bought copies to give to my liberal/progressive friends.

Your feelings for Snowden are misguided.  We probably agree on the issues of the Benghazi cover-up, the IRS Scandal and many others.

Since you seem to be very uneducated about military and defense issues, you appear to lack the knowledge that nearly every country has intelligence gathering and the necessity of it going back centuries.  In addition, the methods used to collect intelligence is highly classified and the exposure can lead to assassination of our sources and allies.  Exposing our methods and sources was a serious violation of security.

If we were to support your line of thinking then the Rosenberg's should have never stood trial or been executed.  After all, I am sure that some citizens were not in favor of the A-Bomb.  Would the public release of this data have been as valiant in your mind?

[Gylden]

There are ways to whistle blow while working at the NSA. Snowden decided to give all the information he had to everybody, including our adversaries. He knew he was in trouble so he ran. He ran away from what was coming, the things you don't like. He now wants to come back to America even at the risk of going to prison. I guess the grass wasn't greener on the other side.


Snowden wasn't a hero, he's a buddy fuker. He's the kind of guy that will stab you in the back while telling you he's doing it for your own good. Not many countries want him. Not many companies would give him a job. If you owned a company with trade secrets, would you hire Snowden? His girlfriend on the other hand is getting great exposure for associating with him. Could catapult her career.

Billy,
I really think it isn't that simple. Read about these guys a bit. They tried to blow the whistel though the proper channels and look what happened to them.
 
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/06/16/snowden-whistleblower-nsa-officials-roundtable/2428809/

[calmissile]

Billy,
I really think it isn't that simple. Read about these guys a bit. They tried to blow the whistel though the proper channels and look what happened to them.
 
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/06/16/snowden-whistleblower-nsa-officials-roundtable/2428809/

There is a different perspective to this than the obvious reason stated so often.
1.  The mass collection of phone and internet data was not for the purpose of targeting ordinary law abiding Americans.
I don't remember any anyone targeted for their views on the government or Obama for that matter.
2.  The purpose of the collection of data is to learn what you adversaries are doing, their capabilities, and searchiing for spies and double agents.
3.  I do  not like the idea of the government collecting so much information about  all of us either.  The cat was out of the bag a long time ago.  The government has access to all of our financial, medical, and criminal records as well as every other public record.   If my romantic Skype calls to my wife gets some data analyst's rocks off, so be it.

We should be much more concerned that our president has flouted the constitution and ruled by Executive Order.  Our constitution has provided that the Congress makes the laws and the president is supposed to implement them through the executive branch.  What is more disgracefull is that Congress is such a bunch of gutless/political bastards that they do not uphold the oath they took.

When members of the Administration stonewall Congress in their investigations is equally aborant.  Refusing to testify when you are a civil servant should be severly punishable.  How can Congress provide an oversight function if the presidents men (and women) can refuse to give testimony?

The IRS scandal is a perfect example!  So far, no one has been charged or jailed even after all the evidence that was disclosed.  I believe that Holder was impeached, but I am not certain.  That dickhead should have been jailed long ago.

We have  a very corrupt government, no question about it.  I hate to admit it, but it is true.

This silliness about monitoring phone and internet traffic is insignificant compared to all the other abuses we are faced with.

The deliberate targeting of political groups by the IRS is probably the worse in recent memory.  The IRS is such a powerful entity that even Congress is afraid of it.  Now they will have all our health records which is a convenient depository for all the insurance companies to view.

Clinton refusing to testify about Benghazi is typical of this administration.  She says "What difference does it make"  Tell that to the families of the dead!   And she wants to run for president?         I suppose if we were stupid enough to have elected Obama twice, nothing should surprise us.

Snowden, like the Walkers and the Rosenberg's should have his day in court and then sentenced accordingly.
It is not up to each citizen to determine what classified information can be released outside their agency.  PERIOD!

[BillyB]

Billy,
I really think it isn't that simple. Read about these guys a bit. They tried to blow the whistel though the proper channels and look what happened to them.
 
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/06/16/snowden-whistleblower-nsa-officials-roundtable/2428809/

They disagreed with the spy program but even one of the guys called Snowden a traitor. Unlike Snowden, they didn't steal and distribute government property. There are soldiers that disagree with wars and killing but they still have a job to do. Rebelling against their own nation isn't honorable. If all our spies were like Snowden, we'd be hurting. We might as well hand our playbook to our enemies.


There are a few whistle blowers who think the program doesn't work. There is always someone who disagrees with any program. Does it mean they are right and the majority are wrong? We have presidents and congressmen both Republican and Democrat who believe the program is useful. It's hard to get those guys to agree but they agree on this. There are a lot of laws and government programs that I think are limiting my freedoms. I like to go faster than the speed limit but it's the governments job to create a safe environment for all. The government were on to a few suspected terrorists living in America. Thanks to Snowden giving a list of names that the government were hot on, those guys probably changed their act and ways to communicate.

[Gylden]

Hi Cal,
I pretty much agree with you 100%. However if you take the time to research in depth about the whistelblowing from within the NSA, I think you will find that it isn't about the monitoring or the need for it.