Putin's aspirations and 'accomplishments'

[missAmeno]

Since russian tanks rolled across Georgia I have been dreading day when Ukraine would have to go through same thing. There have been tiny hope Ukraine may manage to avoid it but also understanding Ukraine will not be able to move away from Russia without it. Not much would change till it happens. And of course there was fear if Ukrainians are though enough to fight back.

It happened. For many years to come it will effect how Ukrainians see and feel about Kremlin and its supporters.

One short men believed he can tie once again Ukraine (or at least significant part of it) back to Russia. Quiet ambitious goal. What did he achieve? Ukrainians rather die than be part of Russia again.

He so hard tried to achieve neutrality of Ukraine. He failed. Ukraine firmly and permanently linked to NATO due to his own actions.

Wanted admiration and popularity among Ukrainian people. Wanted to go in history as this amazing politician who united nations. Instead acquired h**lo nickname and enemy neighbor state that for many years will remember his crimes. And in history he will go same: h**lo that should one day be tried in Hague.

Wanted Novorossiya from Donetsk to Odessa (comprising 8 whole regions of Ukraine). Got smaller parts of Donetsk and Lugansk regions.

Wanted corridor through mainland to Crimea. But russian speaking population that he so mush wished to save from oppression dug trenches for russian tanks not to go through and for themselves to remain in Ukrainian oppression. No one would believe one year ago such 'accomplishment' at all achievable.

Wanted  raise Russian economy. Instead lost capital of more than 100 billion dollars, ruble depreciation of over 20% and double-digit inflation for food. Also complete stagnation in the economy without investment and innovation.

Wanted support of nationalists. Received from them title of traitor.

Wanted to be recognized in world politics. Became an outcast. Expelled from G8, friends who been previously supporting him under sanctions, no one but Lukashenko and Nazarbayev want to communicate with him. And even they support the unity of Ukraine and demand money. To top that up Lukashenko after receiving 3.5 billion dollars a year from Russia had no issues to say Russia should be divided between Mongolia and Kazakhstan. If Lukashenko these days can say that interesting what others thinking? 

The only thing on aspirations list accomplished is high rating and that was achieved only by cynical lies of propaganda and oppression of free speech.

'Amazing' accomplishments in such short period of time. 


------------------------------------------------

My post reflects analyzes of Boris Nemtsov. Have no time to do proper translation but wanted to start topic on subject.




P.S. To IT Mods: I am amazed you gone to the length of writing script which replaces h**lo with Putin. To some he is Putin, to some he is h**lo. Whatever h**lo use to mean in the past doesn't matter as in today's world h**lo means russian president. You know, language evolution in modern world and all that 
   

[Shadow]

And like you, Nemtsov is completely impartial on the matter.

[missAmeno]

Lets just do not make this thread about Nemtsov or me or impartiality of either.
Lets make this thread about what Russia and/or Putin tried to achieve and what actually was achieved.


And if you anyway decide to proceed with discussion of impartiality in this thread, begin with your own impartiality in circumstances where well-being and even lives of your loved ones under threat due to actions of short sociopath supported by people drawn in Grand Russia chauvinistic utopia.

[calmissile]

missAmeno,
Very nice summary.
It's amazing how the Putin apologists argue about the details, but overlook the big picture.

Putin invaded and annexed a foreign country.
Putin supplied many fighters to eastern Ukraine although he tried to escape responsibility by claiming they are volunteers on vacation or 'lost their way' while on patrol.
Putin has supplied a large amount of arms and ammunition to eastern Ukraine.  Is anyone stupid enough to believe that all these rockets and ammunition came from old Ukrainian storage facilities.
Putin 'probably' supplied the BUK missile launcher and a few experts that shot down MH-17.

Sometimes we get so focused on the details that we forget the big picture.

[fathertime]

missAmeno,
Very nice summary.
It's amazing how the Putin apologists argue about the details, but overlook the big picture.

Putin invaded and annexed a foreign country.
Putin supplied many fighters to eastern Ukraine although he tried to escape responsibility by claiming they are volunteers on vacation or 'lost their way' while on patrol.
Putin has supplied a large amount of arms and ammunition to eastern Ukraine.  Is anyone stupid enough to believe that all these rockets and ammunition came from old Ukrainian storage facilities.
Putin 'probably' supplied the BUK missile launcher and a few experts that shot down MH-17.

Sometimes we get so focused on the details that we forget the big picture.

I think the bigger picture is much bigger than all those details you just mentioned.  It is amazing how people try to overlook anything that doesn't jive with their own skewed POV.


Fathertime! 

[Doll]

Fathertime, the OP is quite opposite to what I know and SEE in Russia.
Haha- Boris Nemtzov and MissAmeno!
Like I don't know Nemtzov! I've been watching him for many years!
Political prostute.

[Shadow]

Lets just do not make this thread about Nemtsov or me or impartiality of either.
Lets make this thread about what Russia and/or Putin tried to achieve and what actually was achieved.


And if you anyway decide to proceed with discussion of impartiality in this thread, begin with your own impartiality in circumstances where well-being and even lives of your loved ones under threat due to actions of short sociopath supported by people drawn in Grand Russia chauvinistic utopia.

I do not pretend to know what Putin tried to achieve and if he managed this or not.
I only know that in my opinion the goals were fully achieved.
As for being under threat, the people in Ukraine have chosen to fall in to civil war. That adds to a line of bad choices over the last 25 years. However the people have the right to choose, and the obligation to solve their own mess without blaming the rest of the world for it.

[Doll]

What "threat" , Shadow?

[Shadow]

What "threat" , Shadow?

And if you anyway decide to proceed with discussion of impartiality in this thread, begin with your own impartiality in circumstances where well-being and even lives of your loved ones under threat due to actions of short sociopath supported by people drawn in Grand Russia chauvinistic utopia.

that one

[Slumba]

As for being under threat, the people in Ukraine have chosen to fall in to civil war. That adds to a line of bad choices over the last 25 years. However the people have the right to choose, and the obligation to solve their own mess without blaming the rest of the world for it.

Is it still "civil war" if regular army troops from another nation, not in uniform, go into the country with weapons suplied by another country, and assist greatly in fomenting or enlarging the war?

Or is that a fact that you dispute?

[Shadow]

Is it still "civil war" if regular army troops from another nation, not in uniform, go into the country with weapons suplied by another country, and assist greatly in fomenting or enlarging the war?

Or is that a fact that you dispute?

It hiring mercennaries from another country sign that the country is participating in the war? In that case there are more countries involved as Russia.

[Doll]

Exactly! People here need to read - there are troops from other contries  now in Ukraine. It is just official infor, the rest it "hidden".

[lordtiberius]

300% agree with MissA about the pervert script writers.

If you cannot defend your decisions with reason, you are unworthy of your birthright.  Doll, FT and Shadow maybe a lot of things but at least they try, which makes you less than them.  Drink up on your power trip H**lo (not Putin)

[Muzh]

Exactly! People here need to read - there are troops from other contries  now in Ukraine. It is just official infor, the rest it "hidden".

Oh, you mean a civil war like Spain had in the 1930's? Yeah, I can see the resemblance where the NAZIs were NOT in Spain fighting for the fascists. Yeah, them fascist. Can never get their story straight.


So I guess you are right. A civil war where the NAZIS come into a country undercover to "save" the population at large.

[Shadow]

300% agree with MissA about the pervert script writers.

If you cannot defend your decisions with reason, you are unworthy of your birthright.  Doll, FT and Shadow maybe a lot of things but at least they try, which makes you less than them.  Drink up on your power trip H**lo (not Putin)

Right now I am certaqinly less that those fighting for their country, regardless on which side they stand. If such conflict would arise here, I do not know if I will fight or flee.
If I do fight, it will be until the end, and I will probably become 'frozen minded'.

[Doll]

300% agree with MissA about the pervert script writers.

If you cannot defend your decisions with reason, you are unworthy of your birthright.  Doll, FT and Shadow maybe a lot of things but at least they try, which makes you less than them.   

What decisions?
I am Russian and I am proud of it.
Don't care for your 300%

[Muzh]

Right now I am certaqinly less that those fighting for their country, regardless on which side they stand. If such conflict would arise here, I do not know if I will fight or flee.
If I do fight, it will be until the end, and I will probably become 'frozen minded'.

Heh, me thinks you are the fleeing kind.

[Shadow]

Heh, me thinks you are the fleeing kind.

You might be surprised. I will avoid conflict when possible, but once I decide it is inevitable I will turn in to the opposite. As the very few people who managed to get me to that level found out.

[Muzh]

You might be surprised. I will avoid conflict when possible, but once I decide it is inevitable I will turn in to the opposite. As the very few people who managed to get me to that level found out.

Usually, as history proves over and over again, those avoiding conflict will eventually be overwhelmed by the conflicter. Not much to stand up then, don't you think?

[Shadow]

Usually, as history proves over and over again, those avoiding conflict will eventually be overwhelmed by the conflicter. Not much to stand up then, don't you think?

You forgot the 'if possible'.

[AC]

It's a very thought provoking article by Nemtsov, thank-you for sharing it and bringing these ideas to our attention.  I still believe it's too early to say for sure one way or the other how this will play out, as if Putin wants to I suppose he could take large chunks of Ukraine, although he knows now for sure that he has turned most of the hearts and minds of the Ukrainian people against him and the price will be very high.

It seems to me his actions right now show a man who is vacillating back and forth in his decision making process.  He knows that if he moves forward with a complete invasion of Ukraine that the sanctions will get worse and that there is a chance then that another nation or nations will finally step forward and truly assist Ukraine to defend herself, so he keeps playing this foolish game of back and forth, trying to buy time.

Meanwhile as the article suggests the Ruble has lost about 20% in value and the cost has been close to $100 Billion, possibly higher.  There's also the cost that he is splitting the opinions of the Russian people against him, especially the Oligarchs.

It will be very interesting to see what happens during the G20 summit.

[AC]

What decisions?
I am Russian and I am proud of it.

Which is why you emigrated to the USA for a better life.   

[AC]

Haha- Boris Nemtzov and MissAmeno!
Like I don't know Nemtzov! I've been watching him for many years!
Political prostute.(sic)

His Facebook page says that he lives in Moscow.  And you?  Where do you live?  Oh that's right, you live in the USA.  He had the courage to stay in Russia and work towards making it a better country, while you fled.

[Boethius]

Nemtsov was appointed an economic advisor to Ukraine by Yushchenko.  His economic advice was excellent, Ukraine's economy grew by leaps and bounds based on his advice.


My better half holds the same opinion as does Doll about Nemtsov.

[Shadow]

Nemtsov was appointed an economic advisor to Ukraine by Yushchenko.  His economic advice was excellent, Ukraine's economy grew by leaps and bounds based on his advice.


My better half holds the same opinion as does Doll about Nemtsov.

Being a good economic advisor does not mean you are a good politician.