Author Topic: The Myth of Russian Humiliation (Read 43311 times)

AC · « **Reply #125 on:** January 05, 2015, 04:23:50 PM »

Quote from: lordtiberius on January 05, 2015, 03:38:02 AM

I have laid out several plausible scenarios one of which is probably happening right now. Do you rebute them? No. Your response to nuclear blackmail is that it doesn't necessitate first strike. Can you tell us what does necessitate a first strike?

Maybe you and Jay should get together and play Cowboys and Indians. Let's leave control of Nuclear weapons and other decisions regarding war to the professionals.

AnonMod · « **Reply #126 on:** January 05, 2015, 04:55:35 PM »

Remember all, discuss issues, not personalities.

lordtiberius · « **Reply #127 on:** January 05, 2015, 06:37:43 PM »

Quote from: AC on January 05, 2015, 04:23:50 PM

Maybe you and Jay should get together and play Cowboys and Indians. Let's leave control of Nuclear weapons and other decisions regarding war to the professionals.

I agree with moderator. You have insulted me but you haven't refuted a single fact or any of my argument.

Good luck in your search.

fathertime · « **Reply #128 on:** January 05, 2015, 09:00:46 PM »

Quote from: lordtiberius on January 05, 2015, 06:37:43 PM

I agree with moderator. You have insulted me but you haven't refuted a single fact or any of my argument.

Good luck in your search.

Actually AC's comment isn't want brought Anonmod on board.... it was my comment that was deleted as I made a funny at JayH's expense....

Fathertime!

lordtiberius · « **Reply #129 on:** January 05, 2015, 09:04:55 PM »

Quote from: fathertime on January 05, 2015, 09:00:46 PM

Actually AC's comment isn't want brought Anonmod on board.... it was my comment that was deleted as I made a funny at JayH's expense....

Fathertime!

Jay H isn't even on this thread. I don't get it.

AC · « **Reply #130 on:** January 05, 2015, 09:59:41 PM »

edited

mendeleyev · « **Reply #131 on:** January 05, 2015, 10:24:31 PM »

Doug, there are basically two kinds of citizens in Russia today. The first, and the majority, have never traveled, or at least not that much. The second are the ones with travel experience and often a bank account in Cyrus, Turkey, or London, etc. They are very much the minority.

Look at the popularity and opinion polls and the percentages you see there will explain the paragraph above.

calmissile · « **Reply #132 on:** January 05, 2015, 10:48:39 PM »

Quote from: mendeleyev on January 05, 2015, 10:24:31 PM

Doug, there are basically two kinds of citizens in Russia today. The first, and the majority, have never traveled, or at least not that much. The second are the ones with travel experience and often a bank account in Cyrus, Turkey, or London, etc. They are very much the minority.

Look at the popularity and opinion polls and the percentages you see there will explain the paragraph above.

Thanks Mendy. I don't believe I have read this distinction before. Makes sense.

lordtiberius · « **Reply #133 on:** January 06, 2015, 04:14:02 PM »

Quote from: mendeleyev on January 05, 2015, 10:24:31 PM

Doug, there are basically two kinds of citizens in Russia today. The first, and the majority, have never traveled, or at least not that much. The second are the ones with travel experience and often a bank account in Cyrus, Turkey, or London, etc. They are very much the minority.

Look at the popularity and opinion polls and the percentages you see there will explain the paragraph above.

Homo Sovieticus is not only a transmittable disease but it is hereditary.

BillyB · « **Reply #134 on:** January 06, 2015, 05:54:39 PM »

Quote from: Gator on January 03, 2015, 04:33:27 PM

Why would Ukraine want Crimea? It will be an economic drain to Ukraine when its limited financial assets are better used elsewhere.

Just because the people living there aren't rich doesn't mean the land isn't rich. When Russia took Crimea, Ukraine lost 10 billion dollars worth of natural resources. It is estimated there are hundreds of billions to trillions of dollars of untapped resources in the portion of the Black Sea which Russia is now owner of since annexing Crimea.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/18/world/europe/in-taking-crimea-putin-gains-a-sea-of-fuel-reserves.html?_r=0

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/07/us-ukraine-crisis-resources-idUSBREA360YB20140407

lordtiberius · « **Reply #135 on:** January 06, 2015, 06:12:04 PM »

Still think he is winning, win-win?

BillyB · « **Reply #136 on:** January 06, 2015, 11:40:02 PM »

Quote from: lordtiberius on January 06, 2015, 06:12:04 PM

Still think he is winning, win-win?

The damage of sanctions so far hasn't outweigh Putin's gain in taking Crimea. Besides owning Crimea, Putin has stopped Ukraine from becoming energy independent which will make Russia stronger at the negotiating table. Also, if Ukraine kept Crimea and the Black Sea around it, Ukraine would someday be Russia's competitor in the energy market. Ukraine could flood the market just as Saudi Arabia is doing right now. Guess what that would do to Russia's economy?

Putin's not winning but the West isn't winning either. The majority of Russians support Putin and their hate for the West grows. I recently read about some Russians are using the American flag as doormats. Russia, if you include their nukes, are the second most powerful nation in the world. Most Russian citizens will support Putin in a war and a war with Russia will be much uglier than anything we've seen in a long time.

If Putin backs down to the West, he won't be able to do it with dignity. If he proceeds with his goals, win or lose, he may get his name etched in history books around the world and a legacy that may last forever.

lordtiberius · « **Reply #137 on:** January 07, 2015, 06:09:31 AM »

Do you have your life savings in rubles?

Doll · « **Reply #138 on:** January 07, 2015, 06:14:31 AM »

Quote

Ukraine would someday be Russia's competitor in the energy market. Ukraine could flood the market just as Saudi Arabia is doing right now.

With what? Flood with what? Russian gas?

Doll · « **Reply #139 on:** January 07, 2015, 06:19:12 AM »

When was Ukraine energy independent? Oil? Gas? What besides coal?
Ukraine was "independent" with the Russian gas pipeline. Now Russia wants money for it. Bastards!

Shadow · « **Reply #140 on:** January 07, 2015, 06:24:11 AM »

Quote from: lordtiberius on January 07, 2015, 06:09:31 AM

Do you have your life savings in rubles?

Only Americans would put savings in money.

Boethius · « **Reply #141 on:** January 07, 2015, 08:37:58 AM »

Quote from: Doll on January 07, 2015, 06:19:12 AM

When was Ukraine energy independent? Oil? Gas? What besides coal?
Ukraine was "independent" with the Russian gas pipeline. Now Russia wants money for it. Bastards!

Russia always received money from Ukraine for their gas, albeit often late, and there are oligarchs who stole gas.

But, Ukraine does have shale oil, lots of it, in Western Ukraine.

jone · « **Reply #142 on:** January 07, 2015, 02:30:07 PM »

Quote from: Shadow on January 07, 2015, 06:24:11 AM

Only Americans would put savings in money.

Silly you. We put our savings into real estate, for the most part. That is why reverse mortgages are so popular in today's society. They have the ability to remove some of the equity from the property in exchange for an increase in the standard of living.

Photo Guy · « **Reply #143 on:** January 08, 2015, 12:53:57 PM »

Russia has always been quick to use energy as blackmail/leverage for political ends. EU is now more aware of it now.

lordtiberius · « **Reply #144 on:** January 08, 2015, 04:33:11 PM »

Quote from: Photo Guy on January 08, 2015, 12:53:57 PM

EU is now more aware of it now.

Idiots.

Shadow · « **Reply #145 on:** January 08, 2015, 04:50:22 PM »

Quote from: lordtiberius on January 08, 2015, 04:33:11 PM

Idiots.

The idiots that migrated to form your country.

lordtiberius · « **Reply #146 on:** January 08, 2015, 04:57:29 PM »

Quote from: Shadow on January 08, 2015, 04:50:22 PM

The idiots that migrated to form your country.

Not true. We have our own indigenous idiots THANK YOU!

Shadow · « **Reply #147 on:** January 09, 2015, 05:05:39 AM »

Quote from: lordtiberius on January 08, 2015, 04:57:29 PM

Not true. We have our own indigenous idiots THANK YOU!

They are Russian.

lordtiberius · « **Reply #148 on:** January 09, 2015, 05:16:31 AM »

Quote from: Shadow on January 09, 2015, 05:05:39 AM

They are Russian.

I wish . . .

Doll · « **Reply #149 on:** January 09, 2015, 05:19:38 AM »

Quote from: Boethius on January 07, 2015, 08:37:58 AM

Russia always received money from Ukraine for their gas, albeit often late, and there are oligarchs who stole gas.

But, Ukraine does have shale oil, lots of it, in Western Ukraine.

I understand "energy independence" as having own recourses.
They have shale oil? Let them use it but gas is Russian.

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Author Topic: The Myth of Russian Humiliation (Read 43311 times)

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