Why Ukrainians and Russians will never be Brothers

[AkMike]

Song with interesting lyrics (English subs)



We will never be brothers
neither by fatherland, nor by mother
You do not have the spirit to be free
You and us cannot even be allies
You have proclaimed yourself to be senior
we may be younger, but we are not yours
You are so many but, what a pity, you are all faceless
You are big but we are grand
You keep pushing us... you keep drudging
You will choke on your own envy
Will - that word is unknown to you
Ever since your childhood you've been in chains
At your place "silence is gold"
While at ours Molotov cocktails are burning
Yes, the blood in our hearts is hot
What are you to us - blind "kinsfolk"?
Our eyes are fearless
Unarmed we are still dangerous
We have matured and become bold
At the gunpoint of a sniper
Executors knocked us down on our knees
But we have risen up and got even
The rats are not running to hide for nothing
they will bath in their own blood
You keep getting new orders
We have flames of revolution are burning here
You have Tsar, we have Democracy
We will never be brothers.

[mendeleyev]

As long as I've been in Russia, the theme of Ukrainians, and Belorussians, as "little brothers" who somehow cannot manage on their own has been dominate.

This song is a gauge of the continuing rip in the relationship of these two civilizations.

[Photo Guy]

That's a beautiful video. Will Russians understand it??
Slavic countries and ethnic Russians are moving away from Russia because fear has become stronger than love... Russia chooses to be threatening.

[AC]

As long as I've been in Russia, the theme of Ukrainians, and Belorussians, as "little brothers" who somehow cannot manage on their own has been dominate.

This song is a gauge of the continuing rip in the relationship of these two civilizations.

Russians have a very chauvinistic and superior attitude towards Ukrainians, when in fact Russia should fix their own problems before even dreaming of telling somebody else how to live their lives.

The song is indeed a gauge of the failed relationship; and I would say it is permanently altered due to the actions of Putin.

[Belvis]

The song is indeed a gauge of the failed relationship; and I would say it is permanently altered due to the actions of Putin.

Nope, you have confused political conflict with ethnic confrontation. Actually I got impression that mainly russian speaking men fighting at Donbass from both sides.
When the conflict will be settled to some kind of stable situation both peoples will continue their symbiosis.
As for song there is a good answer, popular at youtube. Unfortunately only in Russian:

ОТВЕТ УКРАИНКЕ

Да, вы - крайние, мы – бескрайние.
Но я рядом с тобой стою.
И я знаю, моя украинка,
Каково тебе на краю.
То бросаться на поле дикое,
То – под свастичную броню…
Если хочешь быть – будь «великою»,
Только дай сперва заслоню.
Ты напугана и растеряна
И не те говоришь слова;
Только грудью своей простреленной
Дай прикрою тебя сперва.
Я всегда это делал вовремя.
Но теперь времена не те.
И в когтях полосатых воронов
Ты не чувствуешь их когтей.
И забыла про наших пращуров.
И кричат в тебе боль и страх.
Мы с тобою - «родня не зрячая»,
Потому что глаза в слезах.
Но, обиду смахнув украдкою,
Я тебя к груди притяну,
И за счастье твоё, украинка,
Я пойду на твою войну.
Ты нашла во мне виноватого.
Я желаю тебе добра.
Никогда ты не станешь братом мне,
Потому что ты мне – сестра.

06.04.14 г.
Леонид Корнилов

[JayH]

American trucker who blew Network hits on Putin spoke about the threat from Moscow USA, Chicago, Yesterday, 7:41 Video Print Vadim Dubovskoy lives in Chicago, but was born in the Donbas.  Known driver antyputinist lives in Chicago and did not shy away from their work Mysterious driver trucker who perespivuye Russian agitation, without interrupting the steering, heavy-duty, just six months became a superstar Internet , and amassed a million supporters and enemies referred to in the story TSN. Week . TSN Journalists learned that opera baritone and sense of humor are a resident of Chicago Dubovskoy Vadim, who in his Fury traveled all America except Alaska and Hawaii. He said that it is best written in Ohio and Iowa. Muse, according to Vadim, appears to him as soon as he read the news from Russia and Ukraine, and then there are the right words. His trademark - known tunes from the Soviet childhood. See also: American Trucker pleased Internet Members area new hit: "Russia, again you outcast" Editor-Dubovskoy songs - his wife Victoria, and chief reviewer - my mother. She lives nearby, in US apartment with towels and icons, speaks Ukrainian and Russian, and not red from somewhere yard vocabulary son songs: that when it comes to attitudes to the Putin regime, words can not throw. Dubovskoy born in Donbas. There are still home much of his family. They're from Donetsk during attacks children hiding in the bathroom and Ukraine are patriots. A driver who perespivuye Russian agitation became a superstar Internet   In fact, singing trucker has high conservatory education, but his current job is not ashamed, because believe it to be workable and unemployed - more ashamed. However, the first occupation Dubovskoy forgets source of pleasure and sings in the church choir, congregation incredibly pleasing baritone opera. Driver-antyputinist regularly gets in his address threats from Moscow, Tyumen and Lugansk, but that he was not afraid and he continues to teach in a worldwide network of new portfolio, because the enemy believes laughter equally needed weapons than guns.
Більше читайте тут: http://tsn.ua/svit/amerikanskiy-dalekobiynik-yakiy-pidirvav-merezhu-hitami-pro-putina-rozpoviv-pro-pogrozi-z-moskvi-394721.html

[Anotherkiwi]

Nope, you have confused political conflict with ethnic confrontation. Actually I got impression that mainly russian speaking men fighting at Donbass from both sides.

I think that most would agree that it seems that way.

When the conflict will be settled to some kind of stable situation both peoples will continue their symbiosis.

Maybe - and that's a HUGE "IF."  What you don't seem to realise, Belvis, is that Putin has almost certainly done irreparable harm to the relationship between the two countries, especially by continuing to deny the presence of Russian troops in eastern Ukraine.

It may possibly not matter to you, or most Russians, especially if you don't have relatives living in Ukraine, but it would appear that Ukraine and its people have decided that enough is enough.  Any influence which Russia has had over Ukraine as a whole in the past has probably been totally destroyed by its actions over the past ten months, especially with the makeup of the new Government.

As for song there is a good answer, popular at youtube. Unfortunately only in Russian:

So translate it for us!  There's nothing wrong with your English language skills. 

[JayH]

So translate it for us!  There's nothing wrong with your English language skills. 

ANSWER Ukrainka

Yes, you - the extreme, we - endless.
But I'm standing next to you.
And I know, my Ukrainian,
What you on the edge.
Then throw on the wild,
Then - under svastichnuyu armor ...
If you want to be - whether "great"
Just give first screener.
You're frightened and confused
And do not say those words;
Only a bullet through his chest
Give cover for you first.
I always did this time.
But now times are not the same.
And the ravens claws striped
You do not feel their claws.
And forget about our ancestors.
And you scream in pain and fear.
We are with you - "relatives not sighted"
Because the eyes in tears.
But resentment brushing stealth,
I love you to her chest tighten,
And for your happiness, Ukrainian,
I'll go to your war.
You found me guilty.
I wish you well.
Do you become a brother to me,
Because I - sister.

06.04.14 city
Leonid Kornilov

[Belvis]

It may possibly not matter to you, or most Russians, especially if you don't have relatives living in Ukraine, but it would appear that Ukraine and its people have decided that enough is enough. 

Ukrainian people is very non-uniform, it depends on region. Last elections has shown this split. We had much more fierce war in Chechnya, and now living together with Chechens w/o serious problems. And many Ukrainians start to blame their new authorities in the conflict. Mood there is very unstable, also easily manipulated with media technologies.

So translate it for us!  There's nothing wrong with your English language skills. 

Not a good deal, to translate poetry

Yes, you are outermost (translation of meaning of word Ukraine), we are endless.
But I'm standing next to you.
And I know, my Ukrainka (means female Ukrainian),
What  you're feeling at the edge.
Then you had to throw on the wild field (reference to wars with turks and tatars in the past),
Then - under swastika armor. (means WWII events)
If you want - be the "great"
Just let me shield you first.
You're frightened and confused
And can't  say approapriate  words;
Let I cover you first
With my shoot-through chest.
I always did this right in time.
But now times have changed.
You do not feel the claws
While being in claws of striped ravens. (Obvious hint)
And you have forgot our ancestors.
Pain and fear are screaming inside of you.
You and we  are the "blinded relatives",
Because the eyes in tears.
But I will brush  resentment stealthily,
I will clasp you to my chest,
And for your happiness, Ukrainka,
I'll go to your war.
You have found me guilty.
I wish you well.
You will never be me a brother,
Because you are my sister.

06.04.14
Leonid Kornilov

[SANDRO43]

JayH, please don't post Google translations, they are a pain to read .

[AC]

JayH, please don't post Google translations, they are a pain to read .

       

[Muzh]

Ukrainian people is very non-uniform, it depends on region. Last elections has shown this split. We had much more fierce war in Chechnya, and now living together with Chechens w/o serious problems. And many Ukrainians start to blame their new authorities in the conflict. Mood there is very unstable, also easily manipulated with media technologies.

You mean, stable at gun point, no?


Are you saying that every Chechen just opened their arms to the Russians who devastated their country due to the benevolence of Kadyrov?


Try again.

Yes, you are outermost (translation of meaning of word Ukraine), we are endless.
But I'm standing next to you.
And I know, my Ukrainka (means female Ukrainian),
What  you're feeling at the edge.
Then you had to throw on the wild field (reference to wars with turks and tatars in the past),
Then - under swastika armor. (means WWII events)
If you want - be the "great"
Just let me shield you first.
You're frightened and confused
And can't  say approapriate  words;
Let I cover you first
With my shoot-through chest.
I always did this right in time.
But now times have changed.
You do not feel the claws
While being in claws of striped ravens. (Obvious hint)
And you have forgot our ancestors.
Pain and fear are screaming inside of you.
You and we  are the "blinded relatives",
Because the eyes in tears.
But I will brush  resentment stealthily,
I will clasp you to my chest,
And for your happiness, Ukrainka,
I'll go to your war.
You have found me guilty.
I wish you well.
You will never be me a brother,
Because you are my sister.

06.04.14
Leonid Kornilov

Oh, how lovely.


Ukraine is now Russia's little sister and wants to protect her virginity.


Oh joy.


I bet you don't see anything wrong with that poem.

[lordtiberius]

My Father-in-Law has a brother in Russia.  His sister married a man who is originally from the Russian Caucuses. 

In America, it is easier to alienize our enemies because our expeditionary military operations.   They are so strange and foreign - whether he be the Nazi, the Jap, the Gook, the Soviet, the Taliban or Isis.  But these peoples are very familiar.  Imagine us going to war with Mexico or Canada.  How do you distinguish a Canadian from an American especially if they are both wearing similar uniforms are carrying similar arms?  How can you ask a Chicano to turn his weapon on a Mexican when the ties between the two countries because or proximity are more easily maintained.

There is a military solution to the crisis but it should not be the only tool used to resolve this.  All Western peoples of good will should use Economic, cultural, political, diplomatic tools afforded us to seek peace.  That includes real political change inside Russia. 

In many ways the G20 was the best thing that happened because it diminished the Russian president.  Such optics do not go well for those who monopolize political power and pervert civil society.  The sanctions are the most effective thing the West has done.  People complain that whining on forum boards and stupid fights over facebook don't do anything but they shape public opinion.  We do need to arm Ukraine to the point where Ukraine can, and if Russia does not change, invades Russia.

This we must do

[cc3]

Ukrainian people is very non-uniform, it depends on region. Last elections has shown this split. We had much more fierce war in Chechnya, and now living together with Chechens w/o serious problems. And many Ukrainians start to blame their new authorities in the conflict. Mood there is very unstable, also easily manipulated with media technologies.

Not a good deal, to translate poetry

Yes, you are outermost (translation of meaning of word Ukraine), we are endless.
But I'm standing next to you.
And I know, my Ukrainka (means female Ukrainian),
What  you're feeling at the edge.
Then you had to throw on the wild field (reference to wars with turks and tatars in the past),
Then - under swastika armor. (means WWII events)
If you want - be the "great"
Just let me shield you first.
You're frightened and confused
And can't  say approapriate  words;
Let I cover you first
With my shoot-through chest.
I always did this right in time.
But now times have changed.
You do not feel the claws
While being in claws of striped ravens. (Obvious hint)
And you have forgot our ancestors.
Pain and fear are screaming inside of you.
You and we  are the "blinded relatives",
Because the eyes in tears.
But I will brush  resentment stealthily,
I will clasp you to my chest,
And for your happiness, Ukrainka,
I'll go to your war.
You have found me guilty.
I wish you well.
You will never be me a brother,
Because you are my sister.

06.04.14
Leonid Kornilov

My "Ukrainka", a Russian ethnic, but Ukrainian patriot, and an involuntarily displaced person (from Luhansk just before the moskali invasion), calls an utter 'BS' on you Belvis. Putin's fascistic aggression has inculcated a visceral hatred in her for moskali leadership and military. Put that in your pipe and smoke it as you worship the hammer and sickle.

[mendeleyev]

(From the Mendeleyev Journal):

Never count out the power of social media as one of the most important propaganda tools at this point in history. The Russian security services have the edge in this battle as they've been at it longer than Ukraine.

The photo below bears the message that Russia and Ukraine is one. One people/nation with one history.






History may grant them a brief nod, but in what matters--relationships--Ukraine has never been allowed to step out of Russia's shadow. Call it a "Shotgun wedding" if you must.

For readers just joining the search for truthful information on this conflict, the flags of these two countries will help you understand the photos: Ukraine's flag is blue/gold and the flag of Russia is white/blue/red.






Russian propaganda wastes no time in reminding the world, and Ukrainians, that Ukraine is the little one (and therefore weaker), which of course explains why the weaker brother/sister is in need of constant protection from the bigger, and much wiser, Russia.






Democracy is the real enemy. Russians do not need such silly Western ideals, and if they do not need it, then neither do Ukrainians. Russians truly believe that they are protecting Ukrainians from the West.






Oh, those silly and mindless Ukrainians. According to the Russian pig at the left, Ukrainians are traitors.






Most Ukrainians yearn for democracy, for transparency in government, and the chance to live with European ideals of justice and economic freedoms. On the path to Europe (Европа), from their viewpoint the only thing standing in their way is Russia.




Not to be fooled by a coup which was followed by a referendum at the point of a gun, Ukrainians are angry at Russia for stealing Crimea.




As Russia continues to send in thousands of troops to back up ethnic Russian terrorists operating in Eastern Ukraine, most Ukrainians want to sweep those invaders out of their homeland. (The stripped bugs represent Russian soldiers, wearing the stripes of the ribbon of Saint George--a  Russian victory symbol from World War II.)

The caption promises that cleanliness promotes good health.

[Belvis]

My "Ukrainka", a Russian ethnic, but Ukrainian patriot, and an involuntarily displaced person (from Luhansk just before the moskali invasion), calls an utter 'BS' on you Belvis. Putin's fascistic aggression has inculcated a visceral hatred in her for moskali leadership and military. Put that in your pipe and smoke it as you worship the hammer and sickle.

Well, it will be your problem, to live with this hatred. Civil war at Donbass has become your war, not mine.
By the way, you're behind the times. We have exchanged the hammer and sickle logo for  new  insignia : $

[AkMike]

It's hardly a civil war when another country invades yours. It war!
Civil war is a war within a country by it's own citizens.

 The first shooting was by Russia's FSU/GRU Col. Girkin by his admission.

[Belvis]

It's hardly a civil war when another country invades yours. It war!

I'll believe you when Ukraine stop to buy coal, electricity and gas in Russia, and may be  introduce visas for Russian citizens.

[Doll]

Well, it will be your problem, to live with this hatred. Civil war at Donbass has become your war, not mine.
By the way, you're behind the times. We have exchanged the hammer and sickle logo for  new  insignia : $

+100

[Muzh]

Well, it will be your problem, to live with this hatred. Civil war at Donbass has become your war, not mine.
By the way, you're behind the times. We have exchanged the hammer and sickle logo for  new  insignia : $

I don't think you guys have changed that much from Stalin's failed state.


http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinion/article/russia-is-repeating-old-mistakes/512544.html

[Gator]

Civil war at Donbass has become your war, not mine.

Do you really believe Russia has no role in the conflict?

      By the way, you're behind the times. We have exchanged the hammer and sickle logo for  new  insignia : $     

That would be great if true.  If Russia were indeed about the almighty $$$, it would have made much different management decisions. 

It would have used these past 25 years to build a diversified economy instead of one based on the price of commodities.  Its economy would have added value to its rich supply of commodities (e, g., manufacturing petrochemicals) rather than selling them to more developed economies.   It would have lifted up its people much more rather than allowing only a few at the very top to enrich themselves.  It would have fostered Ukraine developing its economy and becoming an important part of a regional trade partner with Russia (it would not have cut off its nose to spite its face).  And it would understand the need to live harmoniously with the world. 

If Russia had done all that it could have done, its economy today would be something to marvel, including a much larger middle class enjoying the fruits of its capitalistic and democratic society.   

[AkMike]

I'll believe you when Ukraine stop to buy coal, electricity and gas in Russia, and may be  introduce visas for Russian citizens.

Russia is stealing mass quantities of coal from the Donbas regions. Why?

Kazakhstan has stopped selling power to Russia. Why?

Gas and oil are fueling the Russian economy. Russia's economy is going in the toilet.  Why?

[Belvis]

Do you really believe Russia has no role in the conflict?

Did I say that? Russia pursues the own purposes in the conflict using Ukrainian turmoil. Russia supports pro-russian forces there.  I meant this war does not touch me personally, it's foreign war.

Russia is stealing mass quantities of coal from the Donbas regions. Why?

It's boring to dicuss fakes. You've lost common sense and seems to be very naive  taking information only those you'd pleased to read. Don't forget, information war is under way.

Kazakhstan has stopped selling power to Russia. Why?

Large fluctuations in exchange rates require negotiations on new price, pure business.

Gas and oil are fueling the Russian economy. Russia's economy is going in the toilet.  Why?

Why? Because you has knowledge about Russia's economy only from forums and popular writings. Hitler made the same mistake 70 years ago, he relied too much on newpaper reports about Russia

[lordtiberius]

Belvis wants war.  Why not give him more than he wants?

[Gator]

Belvis wants war.  Why not give him more than he wants?

I have seen nothing from Belvis to suggest war, any kind of war. 

OTOH, if I were Russian it would be difficult to feel Belvis's indifference to what is happening in Ukraine, knowing that my government is implicated.  I suppose indifference is the most we could expect given everything.  Other Russian members here are not so indifferent.