Minimum Wage debate - USA

[calmissile]

Someone posted this on my Facebook account today.  Since it reflects my position on the topic so well, I thought I would share.   

[lordtiberius]

The problem is somewhat related to amnesty issue as many illegal or semi-illegal aliens even with e-verify are stuck in these jobs.  Do I support a minimum wage hike?  No.  Do I support the President's amnesty plan?  No.  But I do believe men of good will can find compromise to solve problems.  Its what we used to do.

[Muzh]

What I read was the rants of a woman who is getting shafted in pay and wants everyone to be in her same level of misery.

[fathertime]

Minimum wage should be increased and/or the EIC should be increased even more.  The growing disparity in wages is ultimately going to be harmful to all of society.



Fathertime!

[Muzh]

Also, the far right wastes no time in accusing the liberals in class warfare. So I wonder where this woman got her class warfare ideas.

[Gator]

A little off-topic, but I play golf with two wounded warriors from Iraq. 

They did not express any sentiment against raising the minimum wage, but pointed out if enacted a McDonald's beginning worker  would make more than  sergeants with four years of experience risking their lives defending our country. 

If true,  the military needs a pay raise too, a big raise! 

[AC]

My 2 cents:

Bill Gates created and sold the technological equivalent of crack-cocaine, ie a computer operating system which has numerous problems and which each year gets more and more complicated -- for which people line up to pay.  He made hundreds of Billions.  Instead of investing any money in US factories to employ US workers to make X-boxes and such, he had the stuff made in China by people working 6 days a week at slave wages.  I don't know how many of them committed suicide, but it's a well known fact that many of the Apple workers in China did just that.

And he sends a large chunk of the profits to Africa for charity.

I don't know if these guys are Republicans or Democrats, but apparently shipping jobs to China began with a Republican (Nixon and then Reagan).  Regardless of what the Federal government mandates the minimum wage to be -- the first step is to give tax breaks and other incentives to Corporations to bring manufacturing back to the USA.

[tfcrew]

Supposedly been done in Chicago....

http://www.valdostadailytimes.com/news/business/things-to-know-on-chicago-s-new-minimum-wage/article_b7dd56e0-7b0e-11e4-a401-3b196fd888ae.html

The politically popular idea comes as Emanuel faces re-election

Go figure...I can't

[Steamer]

I can understand the woman's frustration with the unfairness of things but why ridicule some poor fast food worker for trying to better his lot in life. Your average pro sports player makes about a million more a year than a GI for running around with a ball. Sure it's unfair but we live with it.

[lordtiberius]

Abolish the minimum wage

[pitbull]

Someone posted this on my Facebook account today.  Since it reflects my position on the topic so well, I thought I would share.   

Er... Excuse me, but how about all the benefits military provides, with  free medical and dental care for servicemen and their families, free (or heavily subsidized) room and board, and GI bill to name just a few. If you add the cost of all these benefits to the salary, the total compensation is quite good.


While low-wage fastfood workers do not have all those great benefits and need to rely on their measly pay only to pay for roof and food. For most healthcare (not even decent healthcare) is out of reach.


The woman is an dumb at best, a dumb hypocrite is a more likely case.

[AC]

Those who think that military pay is great should perhaps ask themselves if they would like their son to be sent to fight in Afghanistan or Iraq or whatever the next hot spot is that soldiers and marines will be sent to.  If you really think that the meager pay these guys get properly compensates them for the hellish existence of being in a war zone then you really are out of touch.  There is a high chance that they might never come home and also a chance that if they do it will be minus a limb or two as well as the possibility of suffering traumatic brain injury.

And free medical care from the VA?  Again this person doesn't have a clue as they've never dealt with that system.

As far as working at a fast food restaurant -- many of them now pay better than minimum wage to start.  These are entry level jobs and minimum wage was always meant to be a starting wage. 

Should the national minimum wage be close to $10.00 per hour?  I think so.  I think $7.25 an hour as a federal minimum wage is a joke and an insult, however I am much more concerned about the shrinking middle class not having the jobs which pay far better than that. 

That is the area that really needs improvement.  It won't happen as long as the Federal government keeps stealing tax money for wasteful programs, instead of letting that money get invested in the private sector.  As Doll mentioned in another thread, food stamps and other free stuff in this country is at epidemic levels.  Are these programs really needed at the level they are at, or could some cuts be made?

One of the biggest reasons there is downward pressure on wages is that politicians have given amnesty to about 25 Million illiterate immigrants.  This affects the quality of life of all Americans who got here legally.

I've read that corporate taxes are less in many countries (such as Norway for example) than they are in the USA.  Cut the red-tape and the cost of doing business in the USA and middle class jobs will come back.  It's a tried and proven remedy that only conservatives have the common sense to do. 

[Gylden]

That's why it's called "military service". It's supposed to be a contribution to your country.

[ML]

"The minimum wage is just a clumsy anti-poverty program," said Allen Sanderson, a senior lecturer in the University of Chicago's Department of Economics. "I'd rather go after skills and improve skills. I want people to have more command in the workplace, and I want them to have much more than $7.25 an hour. I just don't want McDonald's to be the place where they can make that."

Sanderson and many other economists and public policy experts fear a number of unintended consequences if the minimum wage is raised from its current level to $10.10 per hour, as President Barack Obama has proposed. These include:

•A loss of jobs, as predicted by a recent Congressional Budget Office report, which forecast that total U.S. employment could be reduced by 500,000 jobs.

•An increase in consumer prices, driven by companies offsetting increased labor costs.

•The possibility that a higher minimum wage would attract more experienced workers and keep them in lower-wage jobs longer, blocking young people or people with limited work experience from entry-level jobs.

The job loss argument is supported by many different academic studies, though proponents of boosting the minimum wage offer up studies of their own showing negligible effects on employment.

But a widely cited 2006 study by David Neumark, an economics professor at the University of California at Irvine, and William Wascher, deputy director of research and statistics at the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System, examined the literature on this issue and found "the weight of the evidence points to dis-employment effects."

It also found that "minimum wages may harm the least skilled workers more than is suggested by the net dis-employment effects estimated in many studies."

Jonathan Meer, an assistant professor of economics at Texas A&M, in a study released in December, looked at how an increase in the minimum wage affects future job creation. The results were not good.

He found that the "minimum wage reduces net job growth, primarily through its effect on job creation" and that those effects "are most pronounced for younger workers and in industries with a higher proportion of low-wage workers."

That's of considerable concern to people like Sanderson and Craig Garthwaite, an assistant professor of management and strategy at Northwestern University's Kellogg School of Management.

"That's troubling, because I think it's important for people to get into the labor market," Garthwaite said. "Even if these aren't great jobs, they lead to better jobs as your skills improve. That's the idea. I don't think we should be doing anything to dissuade people from entering the job market right now."

The core of the argument here is that the minimum wage is meant to be commensurate with the work skills, education and productivity — at that point in time — of people entering the workforce. The goal, then, is to get in at that wage, develop skills and quickly work your way out of minimum wage and up the pay scale.

Sanderson said a minimum wage of $10.10 per hour might not only attract more qualified workers who would block out less-skilled candidates, it could lure young people out of high school and into jobs that — while low-paying — would be more appealing than ones at the current $7.25 per hour.

"The biggest anti-poverty program we have in the U.S. is getting somebody a job," Sanderson said. "If you're a high school dropout, you may be a lovely human being, but you're virtually unemployable. How do we make sure that five or 10 years from now, that person has reason to become a bigger part of the economy?"

The better approach, according to minimum wage hike opponents, is to put money into education and job preparedness plans, which they say have proven success records. And then improve targeted programs like the Earned Income Tax Credit — which subsidizes low-income working families — to directly help the working poor.

"The minimum wage is poorly targeted, and a fair number of beneficiaries of an increase are not going to be people in poverty," Garthwaite said. "The minimum wage does go to people in poverty, but it also goes to a large number of people who are second or third earners in their family."

[pokerintherear]

This discussion should not be happening. If we go back to basics the government should not be making laws like this. The free market will determine what people are worth.

The constitution and bill of rights were drafted to limit the power of Government. The founders knew from history how Governments gather and abuse power. It was set up to totally reject liberalism and progressive type activity. They were wise enough to know there are always groups of people who try and control everything through the power of government. They tried to set up a system to stop what they experienced in the past.

It worked for about 150 years. The last 100 years have been a slow drip of more government control. I think the USA has about another 100 years left before it self destructs. The wise men never realized the population would become so uneducated about common sense and unable to keep a government in check when given a system to do so.

[Muzh]

Those who think that military pay is great should perhaps ask themselves if they would like their son to be sent to fight in Afghanistan or Iraq or whatever the next hot spot is that soldiers and marines will be sent to.  If you really think that the meager pay these guys get properly compensates them for the hellish existence of being in a war zone then you really are out of touch.  There is a high chance that they might never come home and also a chance that if they do it will be minus a limb or two as well as the possibility of suffering traumatic brain injury.

I don't like it but I didn't stop him. As a matter of fact, I'm glad he did. He came back a man. Right now he rides a crotch rocket. His chances of leaving his brains splattered all over the road are much higher than when he was in Fajullah. Again, I'm not happy about that either, but then again, I had a Kawasaki 750 two-stroke with expansions when I was his age so he will bring that up every time I tell him about his bike.

And free medical care from the VA?  Again this person doesn't have a clue as they've never dealt with that system.

I'm very optimistic that big changes are going to occur to the VA very, very soon.

As far as working at a fast food restaurant -- many of them now pay better than minimum wage to start.  These are entry level jobs and minimum wage was always meant to be a starting wage. 

Should the national minimum wage be close to $10.00 per hour?  I think so.  I think $7.25 an hour as a federal minimum wage is a joke and an insult, however I am much more concerned about the shrinking middle class not having the jobs which pay far better than that.

That is the area that really needs improvement.  It won't happen as long as the Federal government keeps stealing tax money for wasteful programs, instead of letting that money get invested in the private sector.  As Doll mentioned in another thread, food stamps and other free stuff in this country is at epidemic levels.  Are these programs really needed at the level they are at, or could some cuts be made?

Do you ever research on your own? That was an inane sound bite from talk-show radio.


Here, see if you can use your brain to make some conclusions.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2013/07/12/the-politics-and-demographics-of-food-stamp-recipients/

One of the biggest reasons there is downward pressure on wages is that politicians have given amnesty to about 25 Million illiterate immigrants.  This affects the quality of life of all Americans who got here legally.

Please provide a citation for this "25 million illiterate immigrants" statement. Or is it form talk-show radio, again?

I've read that corporate taxes are less in many countries (such as Norway for example) than they are in the USA.  Cut the red-tape and the cost of doing business in the USA and middle class jobs will come back.  It's a tried and proven remedy that only conservatives have the common sense to do.

Here, with picture for easy understanding.


http://www.forbes.com/pictures/eglg45hhik/japan-2/


Psst, according to Forbes, US Corporate taxes are just a hair higher than the median for industrial nations.

[Muzh]

"The minimum wage is just a clumsy anti-poverty program," said Allen Sanderson, a senior lecturer in the University of Chicago's Department of Economics. "I'd rather go after skills and improve skills. I want people to have more command in the workplace, and I want them to have much more than $7.25 an hour. I just don't want McDonald's to be the place where they can make that."

Couldn't agree more with that statement. However, go to a school board meeting, anywhere in the US. Pushing hard for real-life class subjects. Read: Learn how to operate a cash register.


Why?


Because it cost a lot of money to educate properly our youth.


Now, guess who goes to the school board meetings and yell the loudest.


(Hint: They sound like this "I don't have any children so why should I pay for a goddamn lazy whippersnapper constantly playing video games?"

[Muzh]

This discussion should not be happening. If we go back to basics the government should not be making laws like this. The free market will determine what people are worth.

The constitution and bill of rights were drafted to limit the power of Government. The founders knew from history how Governments gather and abuse power. It was set up to totally reject liberalism and progressive type activity. They were wise enough to know there are always groups of people who try and control everything through the power of government. They tried to set up a system to stop what they experienced in the past.

It worked for about 150 years. The last 100 years have been a slow drip of more government control. I think the USA has about another 100 years left before it self destructs. The wise men never realized the population would become so uneducated about common sense and unable to keep a government in check when given a system to do so.

Bullshevik!


It is a FACT that sonny born into money will grow up to have money and minority born into squalor will grow up to be someone's bitch in jail.


And then there are the exceptions to the rule where sonny will grow up to be a homeless drug junkie and minority will win the lotto and take off from there.


You still believe that hard work will make you rich?

[pokerintherear]

You still believe that hard work will make you rich?

Well of course I say to the negative man.

It will make you rich in more ways than you can imagine. Hard work gives you richness in mind, soul, and body. The by product is richness in paper currency if needed.

[Muzh]

Well of course I say to the negative man.

It will make you rich in more ways than you can imagine. Hard work gives you richness in mind, soul, and body. The by product is richness in paper currency if needed.

If you put it in those terms, then I have no argument. BTW, the paper is worthless. But you knew that already. 

[tfcrew]

[tfcrew]

I think the USA has about another 100 years left before it self destructs. 

That many? I'm worried about the next two.

Actually, America was a Johnny-come-lately on wage reform stuff...

The first national minimum wage law was enacted by the government of New Zealand in 1894, followed by Australia in 1896 and the United Kingdom in 1909.^[8] In the United States, statutory minimum wages were first introduced nationally in 1938,[

Note that King Edward III had a maximum wage rule---

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage

[Chicagoguy]

I wouldn't mind if it was full health care for these people first and wages second. Most are young and healthy so premiums might be better than most.

[tfcrew]

And free medical care from the VA?  Again this person doesn't have a clue as they've never dealt with that system.

 Explain.
 

[lordtiberius]

The VA sucks.  They do everything on their power not to give you decent care.  A bloated government agency