Diagnosing a Scammer

[jone]

My woman has a friend who is using a site in the US to attract attention.  She was wondering what it was, so we took the offer for a free three day trial and put up some of my pictures for a profile.  The site is for local daters but occasionally there is a ringer in there.  This profile stated it was from Ukraine and featured pictures of a very pretty young woman.  I thought it would be fun to analyze the emails that I received as if the forum were receiving them.  Note that the profile jumped out at us, as the pictures were very polished.  Should you look on the internet, you will find that the pictures belong to Alyssa Arce, former Playboy Centerfold and sometime squeeze to Justin Bieber.





My initial inquiry to this gal was to state that it would be difficult to have a long distance relationship with this woman, considering that I live in Los Angeles and she lives in Ukraine.   I should point out that the pictures received were already in the public domain so I will include pictures that she sent as well.

Here was my first exchange after she sent an email address in her profile.  The pictures on her profile were professionally done. 

Me:

Most of the women I know in Ukraine who talk to American men are scammers.  Are you a scammer?  Do you have real pictures?  Can you Skype?

Anyushka:

I am sorry but I don't have Skype as I am  using computer at work!
But we can talk here for now , why not??

[AC]

Your first post to here mentions scammers.  Why would any real women not be offended by such a post?  Redonkulous.   

[jone]

Of course a real woman would be offended.  But the purpose for this thread is to give some heads up on diagnosing scammers.  I have pointed out that we knew at the onset that she was a scammer as the pictures posted were of a playmate.

[SANDRO43]

But the purpose for this thread is to give some heads up on diagnosing scammers.

This little tool might also be helpful: http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?action=ezportal;sa=page;p=37 .

[JayH]

J-- funnily enough from time to time  I amuse myself responding.  I opened some mail today -this was a second letter in 2 days--the first quite cleverly written--this was in response to brief letter suggesting other contact methods would get my interest.

Quoting--
Dear Jay
I hope you are doing well Sweetheart? Even in my silence, my Loving thoughts are upon you. I work thru the days with the sincere hope and desire that someday, soon enough perhaps our Love will meet at the doorstep of our home! I can not picture or imagine a more Loving and heart felt emotion than to come home each night to you My Love. Its not just the nights I wish to spend laying together and holding each other, its the minutes, hours, days , months and years ahead in our lives that bring a warm and happy smile to my face and in my Heart. I work very hard and leave little time for myself, and I wonder if this is all I have left in my life?? There has to more, there has to be a man willing to share with me, exchange our ideas and dreams, build them together and see the future with happiness included. I am committed to this hope, and of all that I have found, there is one distinct possibility of man that could make these dreams come true, and at this very moment, I am writing to this man, that brings me warmth in his letters, love in my thoughts and heart. I hope that my words are not just letters and symbols on a screen, I hope within your Heart, somewhere you will be touched with same warm feelings of love that I wish to share with you!!! It has to be more than just a Dream for us. Together we could make it reality if it comes from our soul! The emptiness in my Heart and in my arms can only be filled by you my Darling, where do we go from here?? What do we want? I no longer want to miss you from thousands of miles apart, If I must miss you, it should be from only a few kilometers, the distance to our home is the shortest distance to our Love. I miss you deeply and sincerely beside me Sweetheart. Where do we want to be a month from now, a year from now, a lifetime from now???
All my Loving thoughts, with warm passionate kisses and embraces to you my dear, Thank you for being in my Heart and thoughts always!
Yours with affection,
Anna

PS: I do not own a computer at home so I can use only this site for communication at the agency. I cant get an access to other sites ((( My family spends a lot for my mother's medical treatment. We buy expensive pills and take her to doctors.  That is it is not good time for me to afford computers or smth like that.

END QUOTE

[Lily]

Me:

Most of the women I know in Ukraine who talk to American men are scammers.  Are you a scammer?  Do you have real pictures?  Can you Skype?

Anyushka:

I am sorry but I don't have Skype as I am  using computer at work!
But we can talk here for now , why not??

 

"Me, a scammer? What is that? 
In my profile, I only have the SURreal pictures."

Asking an alleged scammer whether she is a scammer is akin to asking a person who sticks his hand into your pocket whether he is a thief. 

From my experience with the male scammers - almost all of them wanted to take me to the Skype. Or at least to an independent email. Just not to talk to the potential victim through the dating site.

[AC]

Of course a real woman would be offended.  But the purpose for this thread is to give some heads up on diagnosing scammers.  I have pointed out that we knew at the onset that she was a scammer as the pictures posted were of a playmate.

a)  So why waste your time communicating with someone you believe to be a scammer?  Are you extremely bored?

b)  Hire a PI and get the address of the Playboy playmate.  Communicate with her.  She lives in the USA, most likely in California.

c)  If you think that b is a waste of time, refer back to a.

[AC]

From my experience with the male scammers - almost all of them wanted to take me to the Skype. Or at least to an independent email. Just not to talk to the potential victim through the dating site.

Which dating site are you listed on? 

[Lily]

That was Lavalife. However, the site has a new platform now, will see whether any scammers creep in after a while 

[jone]

a)  So why waste your time communicating with someone you believe to be a scammer?  Are you extremely bored?

b)  Hire a PI and get the address of the Playboy playmate.  Communicate with her.  She lives in the USA, most likely in California.

c)  If you think that b is a waste of time, refer back to a.

AC, you, you must be getting old or you didn't read my initial post.  My gal was interested.  She didn't come to me through an MOB site.  And her friend (who is currently staying with us for the holidays) was on the site.  As for the scammer, I thought it would be instructional and entertaining for the Board to see.  (As an aside, my gal is prettier than the scammer. At least in my mind, she is.)

Now, I have a question for you, AC.  You spend a lot of time on this forum.  Are you extremely bored?  Do you have a lot of time to spend?  Or are you just....plain...lonely?

[lordtiberius]

Like you do not spend time on this forum.  Get real!

[jone]

Of course, LT, I spend time here.  I didn't for a couple of months because I had an interlude in my personal life.  But, yes, this place sure beats watching sports on TV.  It is much more entertaining.  My woman calls it my vice.  But occasionally she tells me how she would respond.

I like the idea of having some place to go that does not require me to get dressed up or put on a professional facade.  Many of the members have become friends.  Occasionally, prior to my hiatus, we would all get together for a Skype conference.  It is absolutely a hoot to talk to some of these folks.

Just consider me Joe Sixpack at the end of the bar.  Now, do you guys and gals want me to continue the dialogue with the scammer, or shall I just end the thread here?

[lordtiberius]

Alright.

[ML]

That was Lavalife. However, the site has a new platform now, will see whether any scammers creep in after a while 

Lily, what is the context in which you are calling some men scammers?

Scammer is the word used on these websites for women who try to get money out of men.

So have many men actually tried to get you to send them money?

[AC]

Asking an alleged scammer whether she is a scammer is akin to asking a person who sticks his hand into your pocket whether he is a thief. 

 

[Shadow]

Of course, LT, I spend time here.  I didn't for a couple of months because I had an interlude in my personal life.  But, yes, this place sure beats watching sports on TV.  It is much more entertaining.  My woman calls it my vice.  But occasionally she tells me how she would respond.

I like the idea of having some place to go that does not require me to get dressed up or put on a professional facade.  Many of the members have become friends.  Occasionally, prior to my hiatus, we would all get together for a Skype conference.  It is absolutely a hoot to talk to some of these folks.

Just consider me Joe Sixpack at the end of the bar.  Now, do you guys and gals want me to continue the dialogue with the scammer, or shall I just end the thread here?

In my past the fun we had was the $25 challenge. Which was to try baiting the scammer in to sending $25 to you.

[jone]

Good Morning, Anna,

Surely you are on Vkontakte.  Odnokassniki? 

If you cannot point to something that tells me who you are, there really is no point to communicate.  If a woman only has her email to point to, that indicates to me that she is a scammer. 

So, I ask you again, do you have some real pictures to point to?  If you are real, then you will. 

I know Ukraine very well from work.  I love your country.  But I am also very suspicious of women that can only show email, no real pictures and cannot communicate directly.  More importantly, you look like a sophisticated woman, which makes me even more suspicious.  My friends from UA all communicate with me from their cell phones - using VIBER.  They text me and then have conversations for free. 

My name is Jon *** and I am on VK.  I am a good man and have excellent income.  If you are real, I am worth your time.

-jon


Here is her next letter:

Hello, dear Jon!
I am glad to read your letter and to know you better.
They say that some people cross your path and change your whole direction.
Do you want me to do this?
I am sending normal ordinary photos as you asked also.
I cannot use anything except mail now because my boss doesn't let me!
Dear, I am looking for love and for making a cosy home for my man.
I am old enough to be ready for a family and to be with one man for all my life.
I would be happy to please my man and make him happy, this is the key to happiness - making something pleasent to each other.
Do you agree? What kind of relationships are you looking for?
I have a high emotional intelligence and I am an "open book". I am an honest and sincere woman and I tend to respect
anyone who reports to me.
I love animals and I like to enjoy nature.
I have an open mind. For me, diversity is a richness!
The way to a man's heart is through his stomach, but if so, I have man's stomach too
So my future husband will enjoy delicious smells often coming form our kitchen
I am not a house woman, I like to go to work and do something useful to society.
My current work is formalize credits when people want to buy furniture or technics.
I work streight in the supermarket , the only one we have here, and it is nice to see
their happy faces when they got what they wanted.
I just love making people around me happy and laugh.
Please tell me more about you, about your job.
I would like to see your photo as well.
Looking forward to hear from you,
Anna c

Here were some of her 'ordinary photos' that she attached.

[SlowCooker]

Jon,

I, for one, appreciate what you're setting out to do in this thread, and would like to see it continue.

SC

[jone]

Of note, SC, is that she has a ring on her Right Hand in the picture with the dog.  In UA, that can be an indicator that she is married (as this is typically where they wear their wedding rings).  In this case, however, that ring doesn't look like it is a wedding ring, so she probably would have gotten a pass on that.

[jone]

Wanna hear something funny:   

A couple of years ago, we pointed out to an obvious scammer that she had a wedding ring on her right hand, as is the case with some gals.  Rather than photoshop out the ring (as AnastasiaDate does) she inverted the picture, so now it looked like the ring was on her left hand.  Which, to the uneducated from the US, looked like she was married because they didn't know the difference of which hand a ring is on in the FSU.

[jone]

As with any conversation, we were trying to draw her out with this message, to see how deep she would 'dig her own grave'.

Hi.


Thank you for your letter.  You are kind to write.

I used to know a woman who does exactly as you do.  She worked in a market in Kharkiv.  I stayed in Kharkiv three summers ago.  I was at the Cosmopolit on the North side of the city.  It was a fun time.  They were putting in the new amusement park there (in Gorky Park, in Kharkiv) with a big yellow roller coaster.

Where do you live?  Aleksandria is near Krivoy Rog.  But I dont' think that is where you are.

Your pictures are pretty.  You would make a beautiful wife and mother for my children (if you want children).

My mother died when I was young.  My father is a retired Judge and he is getting older.  We hired a woman from Poltava to work for him and take care of him.  She does a wonderful job and has become part of our family.  Her name is Viktoria.  She is very pretty and makes tasty meals.

I will try and get some pictures together for my next email.

It is now 3:00 in the morning here and I cannot sleep.  (I should tell you that I love your country.  I shed a tear every time I hear about the Donbas or Lugansk.  I was never to Krim, but spent time in Kherson and Odessa, and, of course, Mykolaiv.)

I am curious as to what language you speak at home and who you have as family.  I no longer believe that Russia is going to try to make a Land Bridge to Krim through Mariupol.  It is too late and the sea of Azov is already frozen. 

Tell me about your daily life.  Who are your friends, and where do you live?

As for me, if you are who you say you are, and until I see and hear you, I still hold disbelief.  But if you are real, then I am real as well and will get to know you much better.  I can easily fly to Ukraine. 

As for my work?  I own a company *********  It is a nationwide company that I operate in the Los Angeles area.  I live by myself.  But I have two dogs, as I previously mentioned.

I had business in Russia (which also brought me to Ukraine) but I sold off my interests when the war started. Many of my friends have married women from your country.  They are all happy and have wonderful families.

Do you like to go to Kyiv?  My favorite place to stay at is the Opera Hotel. 

I see the Grivna is losing much of its value.  Are you experiencing loss too?  Does this hurt your standard of living?

How did you learn English?

Do you have a cell phone?  Which carrier do you use?  I had two, but used LIFE most often.

Write when you can.

Jon

Here is her response:

Dear Jon!
Thanks a lot for your letter. I am getting excited every time when I check my mail because of your letters
Dear I think that family is very important in the life of every person.
I would like to tell you about mine and I hope to know about your family too.
I am the only child in the family, but I have aunt and uncle and I have two cousins of my age.
We are very friendly as we live in a small town and we spent the whole childhood playing together.
I am sending you the photo of my cousins daugter, I love her very much.
She is a little sunshine in our lives. When I hold her in my arms I realize how wonderful it is.
I want to become a mother one day. Do you? haha I am sure not a mother but a parent
My parnets always were an example of how man and a woman must love , care and respect each other.
I know how to make a man happy.
I dream to give all the love in my heart to someone special.... I think you are.
I gave myself a promise that I will be the best wife for my man.
So let's continue our talk and get to know about your family and your life more and more?
And see if we could fall in love ever?
Warmly
Anna.


Here are the pics she sent:

[SlowCooker]

Of note, SC, is that she has a ring on her Right Hand in the picture with the dog.  In UA, that can be an indicator that she is married (as this is typically where they wear their wedding rings).  In this case, however, that ring doesn't look like it is a wedding ring, so she probably would have gotten a pass on that.

Good catch!  I didn't even notice her hand was in the picture, and I barely noticed the dog.   

[Shadow]

Good catch!  I didn't even notice her hand was in the picture, and I barely noticed the dog.   

pay less attention to the face and more to the pictures.

[jone]

Anna,

Thank you for your letter. You are lucky to have your cousins.  I grew up in a family of five children in a small town in Wisconsin.

Your pictures are very interesting.  However:

01:  How did you learn English?  Even the most proficient writers in Ukraine do not speak English (or write it) as well as you do.  I am impressed with your English skills when you say you are from a small town in Ukraine.

02:  You did not explain where you live.  The only Oleksandorovka is in the DNR, it is under daily bombings by both the Separatists and the Ukrainian Army

03:  My last name is *****.  But you sign your letters with Anna only.  What is your last name?  Do you have an address?  How else can I send you flowers?

04:  Every cell phone in Ukraine has one of four basic carriers on it.  The reason I asked which carrier you used is that I can then tell you how to use Viber, if you're interested and we can talk

05  You never responded when I asked if you had VK or Odnoklassniki.  Most Ukrainian women would jump at the chance to tell what their lives were like using one of these.

Right now, we're communicating via email.  And you have access to pictures?  I cannot imagine that with your skillset in English and able to post pictures online, that many of the above factors (Social Media, Cell Phone Usage, Where you live) might not tell me too much about who you are. 

If you want a relationship, which I am happy to give, you are going to have to come forward and give of yourself.  You reached out to a man who knows your country but is disbelieving until enough information is given to ally his concerns.  While I love that you sent pictures, and you are very beautiful, you are speaking to someone who could become your husband, yet you do not share these things?

Should you actually share them, and I am comfortable, I will hop on a plane and come to meet you.  But there needs to be much more than the words you are currently writing.

Jon


(THERE WAS NO RESPONSE TO THIS EMAIL)

[jone]

I'll make this quick.  Once the scammer stopped in her efforts to scam, I thought that a follow-up email would be fun.  Here is is/was:

Dear 'Anna'

As you may have noticed, Alyssa Arce was a Playboy Playmate in 2013.  I had access to the same pictures that you were sending from the first day. 

You must have a really different sense of propriety to try to lure guys, theoretically for money.  Doesn't that ever weigh on you?  But I do admire your effort.  Looks like you went on Instagram to get the additional pics. The one with the dog was cute. You should know, however, she was wearing a diamond on her right hand.  In Ukraine, that would be a wedding ring.

Your small town in Ukraine only exists in only in your figment of imagination.  The way you spelled your city was an intentional mistake, apparently.   My friend Natalia lives in Oleksandria.  She is a real beauty. 

As a scammer, there are about five things you did wrong on your presentation.  Any one of them would have burned you with me.  But I'm not going to tell you what they are, that would make you a better scammer for those unsuspecting people you try to fool.

Naturally, we notified the web repository the first day of your attempted deception.  I am sure that they take a long time to get your pics off their site, but it will happen.

As a side note, I have met many beautiful women coming from Eastern Europe.  My favorite now lives with me. She is about five eight, 115 pounds (normally) and has Alyssa's figure.  She was helping me write the letters we sent to you.  Her name is Tatyana.  She was wondering about the site and what it did.  (One of her friends is on it.)  So we had some fun with the three day free trial. Her original home is Belarus, but both of us have traveled extensively through Ukraine and the FSU.

There were about five women on this site, all professing to be from Ukraine.  Are you responsible for the other profiles as well? 

Most women in Ukraine are not as pretty as Alyssa. But the occasional beauty does stand out.  We'd be interested in knowing your real story.  If you are from overseas, that would make us curious being on an American site.

It is an odd profession that you practice.  I can't say I'd want to do it, but to each their own.  Tell us your real story.  It would be fun.

Jon

Hopefully this interchange gives some insight into newbies and how to detect scams.