How to REALLY Start Your Search!

[jone]

Almost all guys that I have talked to that want an FSU woman have seen the advertisements put out by ADate and the other PPL, PPC sites.  That, then, seems like their introduction to FSU women.  Eye candy at the eye candy store.

Those of us who have traversed the process would tell you that, while choosing candy can be fun, there is so much more to FSU women and the FSU in general.  I would have to guess that with the turmoil in Ukraine, the MOB industry has taken a nose dive.  Not too many well heeled WM want to hop on a flight, for the first time, and land at Boryspil.  But getting on a flight is exactly what I would recommend you do.

So, as a pre-cursor to deciding you want to get involved with an FSU woman, I would like to recommend that you take an excursion to the FSU territories first.  I would hope that we can dedicate this thread to be a type of travelogue and have some of the guys relay the first trips that they took to the FSU and the places they saw, not the women they met.

For me, many years ago, my first trip was to Moscow / Moskva.  I hired a tour guide who spoke perfect English.  We toured all the historical places and the famous places written about in books.  I even made her take me to Lubyanka Square, even though there isn't much to see.

I have enjoyed reading Mende's column in the couple of years I have been on this forum.  For those who aren't familiar with it, I, again, post its URL:   http://russianreport.wordpress.com/

From a cultural perspective, and as a friend to the forum, I can't begin to tell you how lucky we are to have him here.
 
I will take some time, over these holidays, to tell a little about the areas that I have visited and why you might enjoy a trip there.

For other contributors, please, tell us about your first trip, or your most memorable one.  Not from the perspective of the woman, but for the cultural heritage that is so much an underpinning for the WM/FSU relationship.

[lordtiberius]

I just got on a plane and went.  Not that hard

[RoboCop]

Don't know this was exactly what you are looking for Jone's, but I'll try my best.

Several things come to mind when I think about the FSU, and the cultural differences it presented to me:

1: Hole in the ground public toilets requiring you to squat. Even though I got use to them, and dare I say, actually more comfortable with them than the 'regular' toilets I grew up using, it's just something that continues to give me a culture shock when I see them.

2: These hole in the ground public toilets actually cost money to use.

3: The ethnic diversity of Russia itself. When walking around Domodedevo and Sherementeyevo airport, or the local markets around Moscow, you see a lot of people from other parts of the FSU, especially Central Asia. Modern Russia is such a large area. My wife's best friend here in Portland, is Russian, but a native of Yakutia, meaning she is Oriental looking.

4: Getting harassed by gypsy, renegade taxi drivers as soon as I come out of any airport in the FSU, to the point of being followed around. But this might just be something unique to me. Tamila's brother told me once candidly: "It's probably because you look like an easy American foreigner." WTF?

5: The respect for higher learning and intellectual culture in the FSU. Tamila didn't quite understand the 'nerd' stereotype we have in America when I explained it to her, my impression is intelligence is something that's praised, rather than mocked like in some sub-sets of American culture.

6: The fat people they have in the FSU, tends to be a different kind of fat person we have in America. A lot of the guys who were overweight in the FSU had an 'ogre' body type; Americans tend to have a 'sloppy' fat body type that reminds me of the comic book guy from The Simpsons. I recall vividly seeing this overweight guy at the international terminal lounge at Baku airport, and Tamila said to me straight away upon seeing him: "He is from Western country. Fat Azerbaijan men are not like this [sic]." He was with a Russian girl, and after hearing him talk, lo and behold he was American. 

7: Finally, this might be unique to me being from a Div.1 wrestling school, but just how much better the Azeris and people from the Caucasus are to American wrestlers. They spend a lot more time focusing on setting up the attack from the tie-up, and are just so much more technically brilliant than American wrestlers, who tend to rely too much on the shot, athleiticism and strength than anything else.

[I/O]

I would like to recommend that you take an excursion to the FSU territories first.

Agreed - I've been banging this drum for near 10 years.

[jone]

Modes of transportation quickly come to mind.

1.  Buses:  I took a bus from Kyiv to Kharkiv.  Interesting experience.  The girl I sat next to had her head on my shoulder and snuggled right up.  Cute lady.  I should note that on buses they have trip attendants.  I should also note that your seat is assigned.  When you get a ticket, make sure you look at the seat number.  The scheduled stops are inclusive of toilets, but as stated above, you have to pay.  Not much.  Maybe the equivalent of $.025.  At both the beginning and end of the trip, there are people to fleece you.

2.  Taxis:  As an American or Western man, you are going to experience price hits.  I think I overpaid twice what the trip was worth on my first trip to Moscow.  If you can gauge the expected price ahead of time, it is good.  These taxi drivers are merciless.  Unless you know what your trip should cost, you will be double charged.

On a trip from Odessa to Mykolaiv, I was originally quoted $165.00 US.  After refusing him, he came down to $125.00.  He really wanted the money I had in my pocket.  We finally settled for US 75 or 80 (I can't remember).  I found out later that this amount was standard for the trip.

Taxis don't expect to be tipped.  But because all Americans tend to tip, well, make up your own mind.

3.  Trains:  I took an overnight from Mykolaiv to Kyiv.  Fun event.  I paid for the full compartment because I had my dogs with me and felt it would be easier to let them loose in the compartment.   The stop that I remember along the way, I bought some pastries from a local lady who was selling them.  Amazingly cheap and very tasty.  The compartment had a bed to sleep in and I was served tea.  Wonderful trip, I'd do it again.  Beats the bus.  Unless you have a comely Ukrainian woman snuggling next to you.

4.  Airports:  In both Russia and Ukraine I was impressed that schedules were kept and everything ran the same as a Western airport.  The new Terminal D is a great place to fly into in Boryspil (Kyiv)

Enough for my travelogue.

[lordtiberius]

A good topic, your cultural awareness is limiting parameter in your search.  Psychology is a the biggest variable though.

[2tallbill]

Taxis don't expect to be tipped. 

For Americans watch them not have any change

[2tallbill]

How to get started

1. Get some professional photos done with a digital copy so that you
can use them for a profile and for future letters. Don't have them photo shopped
unless you have a bee sting on your nose and that is a rare occurrence. Also get
a number of normal photos of you by the beach, in the forest, the mountains, doing
various things like picnics and barbecues. DON'T include photos of other women unless
they are your Mother, Grandmother or Full sister, or they are older than 80 or less than
8 years old. Do not take photos of your stuff! Your boat, your car, your house, etc.
Don't use non-current photos

2. Get a new email exclusively for your search. Use that new email to start a
new Facebook page. DON'T ask any of your family or friends to your new FB
page. Use the new Facebook page to create an account with Mamba.ru
Don't use your existing FB account or existing email addresses. If you really
want to know why ask me later and I or somebody else will explain. Get a Skype
account and a decent headset and web camera.

3. Learn some Russian There are lots of ways to do this. I like Pimsleur for
conversation and Rosetta Stone for vocabulary. Look on Craigslist or used places
for deals. Rosetta Stone is difficult to buy used on Ebay. Learn the alphabet. It takes
a little time but once you learn it you will be surprised how fast you improve. Talk to
a FSUW and you will start picking up Russian even faster.

4. Make a decision on strategy.

Are you a Visit One (VO) type? with a backup plan or B. a Visit Many (VM) type?
A. A Visit One type writes a zillion girls letters sifting through the girls
who answer, trying to get any high potential girl on the phone or skype as soon as
possible eventually distilling everything down to one excellent girl and then getting
on a plane right away and visiting her. You should NOT fall in love before you meet,
you should be hopefully optimistic but prepared to move on at all times if there is
no chemistry or you find a fatal flaw. (lying, smoking, drug use, having a local
husband) are examples of what might be fatal flaws

If you visit a woman and it doesn't work out you need to use your backup plan. If you
are a crybaby then your backup plan can be to mope around looking at local tourist crap
and take photos and feel sorry for yourself. My advice is that your backup plan should
be to move to a visit many strategy for the remainder of the trip.

I have been on several visit one trips that didn't work out. I've been heartbroken, but
I went to my backup plan and didn't just give up. Give yourself a pep talk then go after
it. I found my wife using my backup plan!

B. A Visit many type This is for guys who would prefer to determine mutual
chemistry first before wasting a lot of time writing letters or makes a great backup
plan for a visit one trip that goes bad. Pick a city with more than 500K people in it
and buy a ticket to the city, arrange for an apartment, a translator, etc. One week
before you leave you write ONE zillion girls who you find attractive and ask them if
they would like to meet you for coffee or tea.

Don't mix visit one and visit many tactics!!!!
Don't write a dozen girls several letters and have skype and phone calls for a
visit many trip. This will usually blow up in your face. If you have questions ask,
Either myself or one of the others can elaborate further.

5. Do NOT recycle girls if you are writing to Sveta in Sochi and Olga in Omsk
and decide to meet Olga and for whatever reason things don't work out with Olga
then don't go back to Sveta. Why? because Sveta was your number two pick. You
don't want a number two girl you want a number one girl. Sveta doesn't want to
be a number two girl either. You picked Olga for a reason, you didn't choose Sveta
for a reason. You want a number one girl. Don't recycle. Find new girls and start over.

6. If you don't have mutual chemistry with Sally move on This is NOT Hollywood.
Sally is not going to suddenly realized you were what she always wanted. If there is
not mutual chemistry on the first date then Dump her forever. Don't waste your
time or her time. If you don't have a date for all day Saturday don't call Sally! don't
call some girl that you've rejected. Spend the time writing more letters.
Even if the girl is so hot that you can't look at her without drooling on your shoes, if
there isn't mutual chemistry between you DON'T ASK HER OUT AGAIN!

7. If you find a beautiful girl with whom you have mutual chemistry and she
passes all the first date tests. Then you stop dating and pursue her exclusively.
Explain to her that you want to spend as much time with her as possible. If she is as
hot about you as you are about her, she will find a way. If she can't find a way then it's
NOT her, dump her and move on.

8. Be ruthless be a gentleman but dump any girl who isn't the future
Mrs______________ your name here. Don't waste her time don't waste your time.
The sooner you get her out of way the sooner both of you can find your future mates.
You are doing her a favor by dumping her and not wasting her time.

9. Don't listen to excuses. if a girl starts making excuses then dump her.
A serious interested girl will find a way and not make excuses. If you need more info
on what I mean then ask and somebody or myself can elaborate further. A serious
good girl will come up with a solution.

10. Get back on a plane to see her again soon It's best if you make plans to
see her again before you even leave. When you leave you are not there! and it's your
job to keep things rolling along. Don't be vague! FSUW don't do vague! Say I am going
to be on a flight to see you on XYZ day and I want you to wear your red dress and black ]
panties and I will be checking the panties. You need to be a man of action! The relationship
is fragile as soon as you leave so make sure she know you are coming back in 2 or 3
months. Call her daily, skype her daily, send her sms daily it's your job to romance her 
and to seduce her. She wants to be romanced and she wants to be seduced!

LASTLY, FSUW are not for entry level daters. You know who you are. If you are considered
gullible by your friends or are socially shy or inept then it might be best to hire a wingman
like Eduard or a guide than to try this on your own.

Udachi!

Bill

[2tallbill]

whoops double post

[calmissile]

Great post Bill.  Agree 100%

[lordtiberius]

If you are an entry level dater, get on a plane anyway.  Life is an adventure.  Why not live it?

[ML]

How to get started

Pretty good listing Bill, but I have some differences

1. Get some professional photos done with a digital copy so that you can use them for a profile and for future letters.
don't need professional photos

Don't have them photo shopped
unless you have a bee sting on your nose and that is a rare occurrence. Also get
a number of normal photos of you by the beach, in the forest, the mountains, doing
various things like picnics and barbecues. DON'T include photos of other women unless
they are your Mother, Grandmother or Full sister, or they are older than 80 or less than
8 years old. Do not take photos of your stuff! Your boat, your car, your house, etc.
Don't use non-current photos

2. Get a new email exclusively for your search. Use that new email to start a
new Facebook page. DON'T ask any of your family or friends to your new FB
page. Use the new Facebook page to create an account with Mamba.ru
Don't use your existing FB account or existing email addresses. If you really
want to know why ask me later and I or somebody else will explain. Get a Skype
account and a decent headset and web camera.

3. Learn some Russian There are lots of ways to do this.
Don't waste time learning Russian or any foreign language unless you plan to live in that country.

 I like Pimsleur for
conversation and Rosetta Stone for vocabulary. Look on Craigslist or used places
for deals. Rosetta Stone is difficult to buy used on Ebay. Learn the alphabet. It takes
a little time but once you learn it you will be surprised how fast you improve. Talk to
a FSUW and you will start picking up Russian even faster.

4. Make a decision on strategy.

Are you a Visit One (VO) type? with a backup plan or B. a Visit Many (VM) type?
A. A Visit One type writes a zillion girls letters sifting through the girls
who answer, trying to get any high potential girl on the phone or skype as soon as
possible eventually distilling everything down to one excellent girl and then getting
on a plane right away and visiting her. You should NOT fall in love before you meet,
you should be hopefully optimistic but prepared to move on at all times if there is
no chemistry or you find a fatal flaw. (lying, smoking, drug use, having a local
husband) are examples of what might be fatal flaws

If you visit a woman and it doesn't work out you need to use your backup plan. If you
are a crybaby then your backup plan can be to mope around looking at local tourist crap
and take photos and feel sorry for yourself. My advice is that your backup plan should
be to move to a visit many strategy for the remainder of the trip.

I have been on several visit one trips that didn't work out. I've been heartbroken, but
I went to my backup plan and didn't just give up. Give yourself a pep talk then go after
it. I found my wife using my backup plan!

B. A Visit many type This is for guys who would prefer to determine mutual
chemistry first before wasting a lot of time writing letters or makes a great backup
plan for a visit one trip that goes bad. Pick a city with more than 500K people in it
and buy a ticket to the city, arrange for an apartment, a translator, etc. One week
before you leave you write ONE zillion girls who you find attractive and ask them if
they would like to meet you for coffee or tea.

I strongly advise going WMVM, but this is not the correct way to do it.  Do exchange 6-8 messages over a 6 week period before you arrive in the country.  This one letter and then meet for coffee or tea will subject you to KGB like grilling.  It will not be fun at all.  After 6-8 messages in which you have told a ton of things about yourself and (hopefully) gotten a lot of info about her, you can really have some interesting discussions.

Don't mix visit one and visit many tactics!!!!
Don't write a dozen girls several letters and have skype and phone calls for a
visit many trip. This will usually blow up in your face. If you have questions ask,
Either myself or one of the others can elaborate further.

I have done exactly this several times and nothing blew up in my face at all.

5. Do NOT recycle girls if you are writing to Sveta in Sochi and Olga in Omsk
and decide to meet Olga and for whatever reason things don't work out with Olga
then don't go back to Sveta. Why? because Sveta was your number two pick. You
don't want a number two girl you want a number one girl. Sveta doesn't want to
be a number two girl either. You picked Olga for a reason, you didn't choose Sveta
for a reason. You want a number one girl. Don't recycle. Find new girls and start over.

I strongly disagree.  The rankings you do before first meetings is  nothing but a crock of sheeeet.  Your a-priori number one probably should be number 10 if you had more info and your number 10 should actually have been your number 1 if you had more info.  Look at the success of some of the professional draft picks in rounds 3-4, etc., and the round 1 bombs.

6. If you don't have mutual chemistry with Sally move on This is NOT Hollywood.
Sally is not going to suddenly realized you were what she always wanted. If there is
not mutual chemistry on the first date then Dump her forever. Don't waste your
time or her time. If you don't have a date for all day Saturday don't call Sally! don't
call some girl that you've rejected. Spend the time writing more letters.
Even if the girl is so hot that you can't look at her without drooling on your shoes, if
there isn't mutual chemistry between you DON'T ASK HER OUT AGAIN!

7. If you find a beautiful girl with whom you have mutual chemistry and she
passes all the first date tests. Then you stop dating and pursue her exclusively.

Disagree strongly.  You (and she) don't know jack after a first date.  Foolish to put all your eggs in one basket.  Mostly, these gals can't spend every day with you during your visit.  Prearrange the specific days you will meet with each gal.  After you cycle through these first meetings, then decide which ones you want to go on second date with, etc.
Explain to her that you want to spend as much time with her as possible. If she is as
hot about you as you are about her, she will find a way. If she can't find a way then it's
NOT her, dump her and move on.

8. Be ruthless be a gentleman but dump any girl who isn't the future
Mrs______________ your name here. Don't waste her time don't waste your time.
The sooner you get her out of way the sooner both of you can find your future mates.
You are doing her a favor by dumping her and not wasting her time.

9. Don't listen to excuses. if a girl starts making excuses then dump her.
A serious interested girl will find a way and not make excuses. If you need more info
on what I mean then ask and somebody or myself can elaborate further. A serious
good girl will come up with a solution.

10. Get back on a plane to see her again soon It's best if you make plans to
see her again before you even leave. When you leave you are not there! and it's your
job to keep things rolling along. Don't be vague! FSUW don't do vague! Say I am going
to be on a flight to see you on XYZ day and I want you to wear your red dress and black ]
panties and I will be checking the panties.

Even better, leave a pair or two of black panties with her when you leave.

You need to be a man of action! The relationship
is fragile as soon as you leave so make sure she know you are coming back in 2 or 3
months. Call her daily, skype her daily, send her sms daily it's your job to romance her 
and to seduce her. She wants to be romanced and she wants to be seduced!

LASTLY, FSUW are not for entry level daters. You know who you are. If you are considered gullible by your friends or are socially shy or inept then it might be best to hire a wingman
like Eduard or a guide than to try this on your own.

Udachi!

Bill

[lordtiberius]

Go to Cuba

[2tallbill]

ML,  the way you quoted me makes it difficult to do a point by point discussion.

Pretty good listing Bill, but I have some differences

Naturally, not everyone is going to see everything my way. 


Don't waste time learning Russian or any foreign language unless you plan to live in that country.

What are you going to do only speak to English fluent people? hire a translator to
follow you around everywhere? knowing a little will help a guy.


I strongly advise going WMVM, but this is not the correct way to do it.  Do exchange 6-8 messages over a 6 week period before you arrive in the country.  This one letter and then meet for coffee or tea will subject you to KGB like grilling.  It will not be fun at all.  After 6-8 messages in which you have told a ton of things about yourself and (hopefully) gotten a lot of info about her, you can really have some interesting discussions.

I've never undergone a KGB grilling as a result of one letter method. Have you actually
tried it? I've been asked what I am doing in Voronezh, Tblisi, St Petersburg etc, then I
tell them I came to meet a girl and it didn't work out. Grilling was over


I have done exactly this several times and nothing blew up in my face at all.

I've seen many guys do it and it took them dozens of trips or more before they
were successful. I agree that I said "blow up in their face" which was too harsh but
guys who make that mistake make trip after trip after trip after trip.   


I strongly disagree.  The rankings you do before first meetings is  nothing but a crock of sheeeet.  Your a-priori number one probably should be number 10 if you had more info and your number 10 should actually have been your number 1 if you had more info.  Look at the success of some of the professional draft picks in rounds 3-4, etc., and the round 1 bombs.

That's because you are a visit many guy, and that was my advice for a visit one
guy. You blend tactics and as a result get it wrong. You made 6-8 exchanges and
didn't make the determinations that a visit one guy already made. You didn't take
the time that a visit one guy does to narrow the field. You didn't exchange 80 to 100
Skype video conversations with one girl and ignored the girls that you sifted out.
The sifted out girls know they were sifted out. They know that you are coming back
to them after selecting somebody else. You have some draft picks that you don't know
much about. A visit many guy should write one or two letters at the very most and
then meet them


Disagree strongly.  You (and she) don't know jack after a first date.  Foolish to put all your eggs in one basket.  Mostly, these gals can't spend every day with you during your visit.  Prearrange the specific days you will meet with each gal.  After you cycle through these first meetings, then decide which ones you want to go on second date with, etc.
Explain to her that you want to spend as much time with her as possible. If she is as
hot about you as you are about her, she will find a way. If she can't find a way then it's
NOT her, dump her and move on.

It's not foolishly putting all your eggs in one basket. It's making a decision on the spot
about each egg. If you think the next date might be better then your last date didn't
make the right impression and should be dumped. Doing it your way is simply recycling
girls that you aren't all that interested in

Even better, leave a pair or two of black panties with her when you leave.

I don't get it.

[jone]

I can appreciate the two styles represented in the previous posts, by Bill and ML.  You should know that both are successful and the take that I have is that each got off his buns and pursued his dream.  Congratulations to each!

The reason for starting the thread was that we experience a number of contributors on here who have no clue about the FSU.  My hope is that the readers will acclimate themselves with the FSU, through experience, before deciding that an FSU woman is for them.

I was in Russia many times before deciding that I was interested in marrying a woman from the FSU.  Each person's experience differs, as noted above, but having a background knowledge of FSU culture and an introduction to the people is very valuable.

[2tallbill]

I can appreciate the two styles represented in the previous posts, by Bill and ML.

Exactly, somebody can read my theories and ML's theories and take what they
think will work for them, their personality and their situation. All my theories
are my opinions based on my anecdotal experiences. I have spent quite some
time distilling them and refining them over the years and can argue their merits
however in the end they are my theories not facts carved in stone.

[ML]

I can appreciate the two styles represented in the previous posts, by Bill and ML. 

Thanks.  Just as long as everyone understands that my way is not only the best way . . . it is the only way.  :-))

Also, for those who are really new to this, my complete procedure is laid out in the Starting Out section "Pursuing FSUW 101. The procedures and the dating websites."  As shown at URL  http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=14615.0

[Chicagoguy]

Good post Bill !    Where you been.

[AC]

Thanks.  Just as long as everyone understands that my way is not only the best way . . . it is the only way.  :-))

Also, for those who are really new to this, my complete procedure is laid out in the Starting Out section "Pursuing FSUW 101. The procedures and the dating websites."  As shown at URL  http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=14615.0

I like your confidence.   

 

[2tallbill]

Good post Bill !    Where you been.

My new wife and daughter take up a good share of my time. As I write this,
I smell something wonderful being prepared in the kitchen.

[jone]

My new wife and daughter take up a good share of my time. As I write this,
I smell something wonderful being prepared in the kitchen.

You sure it isn't in the baby's room and requires your able assistance?

[lordtiberius]

Why go to someone's country without knowing how to say, please, thank you and bathroom in the native language?

[I/O]

Why go to someone's country without knowing how to say, please, thank you and bathroom in the native language?

To check the place out - I did....severally. 27 countries IIRC before I learnt a word of foreign language.

[ML]

Why go to someone's country without knowing how to say, please, thank you and bathroom in the native language?

I have been to 50 or more countries of the world.  Always managed to go poo-poo and pee-pee without knowing the local words.

Why go?  Because I wanted to go for vacations or went for business.

English is the first or second language in virtually every country of the world.

Most all educated persons in the various countries can converse in English.

I restricted my pursuit to women who could converse (even if not perfectly) in English.

I only made the mistake twice of violating this rule and had HORRIBLE experience.

Often the business people I dealt with had interpreters, but I did not because I only negotiated in English and all contracts were in English.

No disrespect is shown by not learning a language.

All things about the culture, history, geography, etc., of a country is available to read in English.

Almost all good women will discourage learning their language because it will take away from them learning English.

[lordtiberius]

Its basic respect 101.  Not everyone is a cunning linguist but everyone can show respect.

Congratulations on your marriage.