Invasion by Ukraine

[Doll]

Look how much land did Ukraine invaded till 1954

http://cyclowiki.org/wiki/Изменение_границ_Украины
Poland, Romania,  Checks and Russia!

[Faux Pas]

So what is your point?

[Shadow]

So what is your point?

As the countries they invaded are now part of a single large empire, they will take back their land.

[Doll]

So what is your point?

If they want Crimea then again- look at the link I gave
So many lands were invaded by Ukraine over the years

[Doll]

As the countries they invaded are now part of a single large empire, they will take back their land.

There is no empire- Poland is still there, so is Romania( and Russia)
 Where do you see empire? EU?

[Doll]

FYI, all these lands were taken illegally , so was Crimea, that was " gifted" from Russia to Ukraine   FOR A.  MINUTE by the party leader but not the head of the government with no legal procedures
Putin already have it written i am sure

[cc3]

Territories taken after 20 October 1917 were taken by your wonderful Russian Empire...oops...excuse me, Soviet Union...not by an independent Ukraine. Ukraine had been a part, mostly unwilling, of the Russian Empire since 1654. Be certain of your own history before making uninformed, ignorant, and brainwashed postings here.

[Doll]

Territories taken after 20 October 1917 were taken by your wonderful Russian Empire...oops...excuse me, Soviet Union...not by an independent Ukraine. Ukraine had been a part, mostly unwilling, of the Russian Empire since 1654. Be certain of your own history before making uninformed, ignorant, and brainwashed postings here.

There was NO Russian empire
Crimea was gifted to NOT independent Ukraine
So it was illegal

[cc3]

Crimea was traded for Taganrog. Again, your historical ignorance is painfully apparent.

[Doll]

Crimea was traded for Taganrog. Again, your historical ignorance is painfully apparent.

Taganrog is a city
It was done illegally

[Boethius]

No, it was not illegal.  The Presidium of the Supreme Soviet authorized the transfer by decree.  You can't change that history.

As for the rest, what's your point?  Borders changed up to the end of WWII.  Ukraine's borders were established, and populations moved, largely because of the Yalta Conference.  Russia accepted Ukraine's current borders in the Budapest Memorandum.

I am not upset at Ukraine's loss of Crimea.  It was a financial drain on the country.  However, the manner in which it was done was illegal and demonstrates a thug mentality in the Russian leadership, apparently approved of by over 80% of the Russian populace.

[Doll]

No, it was not illegal.  The Presidium of the Supreme Soviet authorized the transfer by decree.  You can't change that history.

As for the rest, what's your point?  Borders changed up to the end of WWII.  Ukraine's borders were established, and populations moved, largely because of the Yalta Conference.  Russia accepted Ukraine's current borders in the Budapest Memorandum.

I am not upset at Ukraine's loss of Crimea.  It was a financial drain on the country.  However, the manner in which it was done was illegal and demonstrates a thug mentality in the Russian leadership, apparently approved of by over 80% of the Russian populace.

19 февраля 1954 года Президиум Верховного Совета СССР издал Указ «О передаче Крымской области из состава РСФСР в состав УССР». 26 апреля того же года Верховный Совет СССР законом «О передаче Крымской области из состава РСФСР в состав УССР» утвердил указ своего Президиума и внес соответствующие изменения в статьи 22 и 23 Конституции СССР[8] (Указ от 19 февраля и закон от 26 апреля подписал председатель Президиума Верховного Совета СССР К. Е. Ворошилов). При этом не учитывалось волеизъявление населения Крыма, так как референдумы не проводились.
И не надо мне Указами тут тыкать- знаю я эти Указы

[cc3]

Taganrog is a city. It is also an okrug. Here are some details of the transfer:

http://uainfo.org/blognews/295891-chto-poluchila-rossiya-vzamen-kryma-v-1954-godu.html

[Doll]

Taganrog is a city. It is also an okrug. Here are some details of the transfer:

http://uainfo.org/blognews/295891-chto-poluchila-rossiya-vzamen-kryma-v-1954-godu.html

it is Rostovskaya oblast

[Faux Pas]

If they want Crimea then again- look at the link I gave
So many lands were invaded by Ukraine over the years

Doll, you're getting too desperate that you'll believe near anything, now. Repeating a lie over and over doesn't make it come true. I understand your need to believe Putin's actions are justifiable but you are ignoring too many inconvenient truths

[Doll]

Doll, you're getting too desperate that you'll believe near anything, now. Repeating a lie over and over doesn't make it come true. I understand your need to believe Putin's actions are justifiable but you are ignoring too many inconvenient truths

"Lie" is only in your eyes, but you can't undo history. Crimea was Russian and it was just gifted after a glass of gorilka З перчиком
Can Obama gift California just like that?

[Doll]

I know the history of MY country, my parents witnessed  this "gift"
Nobody answered about Poland, Czechoslovakia , Romania and Russian land "gifted' as well

[krimster2]

Doll,
   If you read the article you provided, there is nothing at all about Ukraine invading anyone.  During the time periods mentioned, from 1917 to 1954, there was no such thing as “Ukraine”, instead it was the “Soviet Ukrainian People's Republic”, so in effect Moscow not Kyiv was responsible for treaties determining borders.  The people of Ukraine voted to be independent of Moscow, on 1 December 1991, with more than 90% voting in favor.  Henceforth, Ukraine is a sovereign nation with well established borders equivalent to any other European nation.

However, if you accept your argument, that territory that was 60-100 years ago part of the territory of another nation may at any time be invaded/captured by its former owner, then perhaps Russia should consider its territory that was formally Polish, German, Japanese, Chinese, Korean, etc, because with your logic these countries have an undeniable right to reassert their control over their former territories.  As someone who has had extensive business travel in China, and has asked many mid-level Chinese officials the question regarding territory that was historically taken from China by Russia, all I can say is, “karma’s a bitch”, because one day, Russia will find that “what goes around, comes around”, good luck fighting the Chinese 50 years from now...

[Shadow]

There is no empire- Poland is still there, so is Romania( and Russia)
 Where do you see empire? EU?

Yes I do mean the EU. While they sell it different, any country that is part of the EU has given up its independence. Which makes it ironic that anumber of countries who proclaim to be happy with their freedom have in fact signed up to what they just got out of, in a slightly different form.

[Doll]

Yes I do mean the EU. While they sell it different, any country that is part of the EU has given up its independence. Which makes it ironic that anumber of countries who proclaim to be happy with their freedom have in fact signed up to what they just got out of, in a slightly different form.

Good luck with giving up the independence.
As for being happy - pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeas
Look at former Yugoslavia, Poland, etc

[Doll]

Krimster, I mean the period between 1945 and 1954 which is the Newest History.
Poland and Ko need to have it back OR sanctions)))

[AkMike]

If the Muskovi want to rescind the 1954 treaty the return the Kuban are that was exchanged for Krym.

[Doll]

If the Muskovi want to rescind the 1954 treaty the return the Kuban are that was exchanged for Krym.

Who is "Muskovi? Never hear this word
As for Kuban where I am from then NOBODY will want to do it. To to it against people will is illegal. It was illegal in 1954

[cc3]

Who is "Muskovi? Never hear this word
As for Kuban where I am from then NOBODY will want to do it. To to it against people will is illegal. It was illegal in 1954

My Russian speaking non-treasonous loyal Ukrainian fiancee from Luhansk says that 'Russians' from across the border are considered to be less-than-civilized Eurasian 'moskali' by most of her fellow Luhansk citizens.

[mendeleyev]

I propose that Crimea is returned to its ethnic owners: the Tatars. They would, most assuredly, kick the Russians out. The mistreatment of the native Tatars by Russia still carries deep wounds.

Then we take Piter and give it back to Sweden, Kaliningrad back to the Germans, the Kuril Islands back to Japan, and reset the Russian-Chinese borders back to pre-1969. While at it, return the conquered Caucasus region back to Chechnya and Dagestan, etc. 

If Russia wants to play the very ill-advised "we have history here" game, they may someday be a very small country instead of as today--covering a sixth of the earth's land mass.