Is it actually Russia that is imposing more and more costs?

[Muzh]

 

[fathertime]

Ay, ay, ay!


First, Putler is showing signs of desperation and is instituting the North Korea Syndrome. You know what that is, no?

Hola Muzh!
Well I thought it was obvious that Russia was going to use the the nuclear card if they had to.  That is one of their big cards to play and since they are playing for keeps, it is no joke/bluff, from my standpoint.  Now to make matters worse, many of the nations we have tried to bludgeon with sanctions are teaming up and supporting each other.  This doesn't have to happen...we can let Ukraine fight it's own battle...as there is too much for us at stake to get as involved as some would like.

Second, if any Western country goes to Ukraine would be to help them maintain territorial sovereignty, as in defending their homeland. And since there are no Russian troops in Ukraine, why would you say that Putler's troops would be routed? Are you saying that the West will use Ukraine as a stepping stone to invade Russia?


Are you serious?

I'm not one of the people saying that Russian troops aren't in Ukraine...I think they probably are.  Given that, the question you ask is moot. 


Fathertime!

[fathertime]

I happened to be browsing the internet this evening and found this article discussion how sanctioned states are teaming up and undermining the 'weapons of finance' that the US has been trying to employ.  I think that Russia probably thinks (correctly) that eventually Ukraine (if it were allowed to participate with Western powers) would probably be another nation in the block that would be acting contrary to Russian interests....and they are probably right.


Anyway here is the link:
http://www.doverpost.com/article/20150124/BUSINESS/301249987/-1/news



Fathertime!   

[mendeleyev]

FT,

Oh dear. I shall be compelled to exist upon this planet for another 150 years if it takes this long for opinion writers to catch up with reality. Some days I seem to have the patience of Job, but on other days my eyes roll and suffer headaches from the numbness. This article gives me a headache, if for no other reason than my cats could have done better.

The premise seems to be that due to sanctions, Mr. Putin has been forced to look East, as in places like North Korea, to either raise money or to move money around world markets.

Really, North Korea?

The author is apparently unaware of the financial state of North Korea, itself under international economic sanctions. The fact that two beleaguered nations have found solace in a lonely corner of the world while bartering services with each other is not exactly the stuff that heralds economic breakthroughs. That the author of an article would think it to be economic genius, is well, worthy of a migraine.

To add insult to blindness, the author simultaneously adopts the tired, and very dumb, line that "the sanctions aren't working" but then turns around and tries to make a case that Russia needs to trade with North Korea because the sanctions are working. Hello, earth to article writer...

Newsflash to the article author: if the sanctions are not working, then it would be kind of dumb for ministers of parliament to tell the populace that they need to "eat less" and to suffer on behalf of the Motherland. If the sanctions are not working, then what kind of idiot does that make the president of a country who blames those sanctions on the evil West?

While not a rocket scientist, neither am I a fool. No one can claim me to be a stranger to the inside of supermarkets, and I have been known take part in conversations on the street. Only fools who blithely blather on about the sanctions not working, obviously have not been to Russia as of late.

The ignorance of history is appalling: does this writer really believe that only as of late have Russia and North Korea discussed the use of alternative currencies to the dollar? Even as recently as Mr. Putin's trip to several Asian countries in November 2013 (see the Mendeleyev Journal for trip coverage and photos), and that was prior to Western sanctions and the Russian invasion of Ukraine, this discussion was already taking place between Russia and North Korea (with the assistance of China).

Obviously oblivious (don't ya just luv that play on words) to the author is the fact that branching out from the dollar has been a stated goal of the Russian government since 2006 and toward that end was the building of the high rise development known as Moscow's International Business Centre.





By 2008, then-president Medvedev had begun to speak of turning Moscow into a world financial centre, and introducing other currencies to compete with the dollar. For an opinion writer to try and tie those somehow to current sanctions is amateurish at best.

[LiveFromUkraine]

The ignorance of history is appalling: does this writer really believe that only as of late have Russia and North Korea discussed the use of alternative currencies to the dollar? Even as recently as Mr. Putin's trip to several Asian countries in November 2013 (see the Mendeleyev Journal for trip coverage and photos), and that was prior to Western sanctions and the Russian invasion of Ukraine, this discussion was already taking place between Russia and North Korea (with the assistance of China).

Obviously oblivious (don't ya just luv that play on words) to the author is the fact that branching out from the dollar has been a stated goal of the Russian government since 2006 and toward that end was the building of the high rise development known as Moscow's International Business Centre.



By 2008, then-president Medvedev had begun to speak of turning Moscow into a world financial centre, and introducing other currencies to compete with the dollar. For an opinion writer to try and tie those somehow to current sanctions is amateurish at best.

Mendy, I do think the article has some merit.


From the article:

When in comes to the weaponization of finance, US foreign policy goes like this: The US imposes sanctions (or other coercive economic measures) on "rogue states" (aka states that are acting contrary to the US' interests) which should then force that state to change its behavior if it wishes to have the sanctions lifted or to have access to US capital markets again. (The best example here is the US imposing sanctions on Russia following the annexation of Crimea.)

The US has been pushing their will through the use of our financial system.  That is why countries, like Switzerland, are opening up details on bank accounts of American citizens.  They are not doing so because they were asked nicely.

There is no doubt that replacing the US dollar as the world currency is a detriment to the US and will be responded too.

BRICS countries has it's own monetary fund now.  The IMF is another tool used for personal gain. How much land has been sold in Ukraine now?  Part of their loan requirements were to open up more to foreign investments which has led to more and more land grabs from big companies. 

I wonder what will be left for Ukrainians when all is said and done? 

[fathertime]

FT,

Oh dear. I shall be compelled to exist upon this planet for another 150 years if it takes this long for opinion writers to catch up with reality. Some days I seem to have the patience of Job, but on other days my eyes roll and suffer headaches from the numbness. This article gives me a headache, if for no other reason than my cats could have done better.

 

 

The premise seems to be that due to sanctions, Mr. Putin has been forced to look East, as in places like North Korea, to either raise money or to move money around world markets.

Really, North Korea?

The author is apparently unaware of the financial state of North Korea, itself under international economic sanctions. The fact that two beleaguered nations have found solace in a lonely corner of the world while bartering services with each other is not exactly the stuff that heralds economic breakthroughs. That the author of an article would think it to be economic genius, is well, worthy of a migraine.

 

Well Mendeleyev, while you focused on North Korea aspect, I noted the other countries involved such as India, China, Iran.  These are all significant nations.
Excerpt:





"Over the longer term, though, others will diversify away from reliance on the dollar and US-dominated institutions, particularly in East Asia, where China has the muscle and the motive to create its own institutions, and where there is less dollar-denominated debt to complicate the process," he wrote.
The Asia Infrastructure Investment Bank, the BRICS bank, and the Silk Route Maritime and Overland initiatives are all already existing examples of that, Bremmer noted.
Another layer to what's going on is that over the past several months several non-Western countries (including Russia, Iran, China, India, and North Korea) have been publically strengthening their military, energy, and economic relationships among each other.


Among other issues, getting overly involved in affairs across oceans and imposing financial sanctions liberally is moving this process forward more swiftly. 


Fathertime!

[Faux Pas]

Mendy, I do think the article has some merit.


From the article:The US has been pushing their will through the use of our financial system.  That is why countries, like Switzerland, are opening up details on bank accounts of American citizens.  They are not doing so because they were asked nicely.

There is no doubt that replacing the US dollar as the world currency is a detriment to the US and will be responded too.

BRICS countries has it's own monetary fund now.  The IMF is another tool used for personal gain. How much land has been sold in Ukraine now?  Part of their loan requirements were to open up more to foreign investments which has led to more and more land grabs from big companies. 

I wonder what will be left for Ukrainians when all is said and done? 

Something to keep in mind is that the U.S. financial markets is a weapon. The dollar is the worlds reserve currency and will remain so until there is a one world currency. There is no danger of Russia, India, Brazil starting a new one to overtake the dollar. It's not going to happen.

As an example, the sanctions on Russia right now is crushing it's financial sector. The sanctions are intended to. It's a global economy and it is all driven by the U.S. markets. Most economies the world over are tied in some form or fashion into Wall St.. That is no accident and is by design. Basically it's a tool of the international banking cartels used to inflict their will on the world stage. The U.S. gets to shoulder all of the blame of those actions

[Gator]

I happened to be browsing the internet this evening and found this article discussion how sanctioned states are teaming up and undermining the 'weapons of finance' that the US has been trying to employ....blah....blah

Do your homework before subscribing to something you read.

First, examine the writer of the article:

I'll wager Elena Holodny is Russian based on her name, her appearance, the fact she speaks Russian, much of what she writes is about Russia, and her articles tend to tilt in favor of Putin ("Putin spokesman on Asperger's claim: 'That is stupidity not worthy of comment'," "Putin just invited the new Greek prime minister to Moscow," etc.).  She may even receive payments from Russia's propaganda arm.

   
Second, examine the substance of the article:

You wrote, I happened to be browsing the internet this evening and found this article discussion how sanctioned states are teaming up and undermining the 'weapons of finance' that the US has been trying to employ.

Six states are sanctioned by the US other than Russia:

•Myanmar
•Côte d'Ivoire
•Cuba
•Iran
•North Korea
•Syria

Do you tremble    thinking these sanctioned states could somehow affiliate their juggernaut economies and jeopardize the financial stability of the world?   

This list speaks volumes about how Russia's misadventures have reduced its friends to the scum of the earth.  Russia's place in the world is declining, and they did it to themselves.  If Russia did not have oil, it would be as significant as Botswana. 

And you find no fault with Russia.  Truly your commentary is wasting our time.   Mendeleyev should not exert any more effort to help you until you show some signs that you are capable of clear thinking.

[Boethius]

I agree with Gator.  There are many countries in the world with which the U.S. does not agree, but which are not subject to sanctions.  A year ago, there were significant differences between Russia and the U.S. on several issues, yet Russia was not under sanctions.  Moreover, the fact the EU is on board with these sanctions, and even more, is significant.
 
On land, Ukrainian agricultural land cannot be sold to foreigners, at least, not huge tracts of land.  It can be leased long term.

[BillyB]

Really, North Korea?

North Korea is extremely important to Russia as is Iran and China because they are extremely dangerous. It's best Putin strengthen economic ties with these countries and create alliances. Even if there is little economic benefit, there could be a huge benefit for Putin if he gets in a war with the West. If Russia's allies decide to pursue their goals in Asia and the Middle East, that will divert the attention and resources of the West elsewhere since those areas are more important to the West than Ukraine.


Look how the events unfolded during WW1 and WW2. If Putin can get the West to believe WW3 is very possible with his alliances of dangerous nations, they are more likely to give up Ukraine than risk losing their way of life with total destruction of their countries. If the West doesn't back off, Putin has friends that can create mayhem all over the world.

[fathertime]

Gator I hold it is you that isn't thinking clearly or completely.  The list of sanctioned nations doesn't account for the fact that  unsanctioned nations are working with them, as many nations don't want the threat of sanctions to impact their design making to the extent it might currently.  Much of the world's population are moving in a direction that will harm our interests and I contend we are making this happen with our meddling.

So now you are upset and telling Mendeleyev he shouldn't discuss this because it upsets YOU that the viewpoint is counter to your silly rosy one.  I'm happy he has shown the meddle, instead of throwing tantrums as you have done in the past.

Fathertime!

[LiveFromUkraine]

Something to keep in mind is that the U.S. financial markets is a weapon. The dollar is the worlds reserve currency and will remain so until there is a one world currency. There is no danger of Russia, India, Brazil starting a new one to overtake the dollar. It's not going to happen.

Hard to say FP.  As of right now, I would agree, but things can change.  We were lucky to bring down the whole world during the last economic fiasco.   Otherwise who knows whom could have landed on top.  Hong Kong and Singapore are tech hubs now.  I can see more and more investments following that route to be honest.

[LiveFromUkraine]

The presence of foreign corporations in the agricultural sector and the size of agro-holdings are both growing quickly.19 In recent years, more than 1.6 million hectares (ha) have been signed over to foreign companies for agricultural purposes.20




The largest land deals involve 405,000 ha to a company listed in Luxembourg, 444,800 ha to Cyprus-registered investors, 120,000 ha to a French corporation, and 250,000 ha to a Russian company.




 China signed an agreement for 3 million ha of prime farmland in Eastern Ukraine in September 2013 but it is unclear if this deal will go forward with the change of government. According to media reports, this deal is now “disputed.”22 If it is implemented, the agreement would give China control over an area roughly the size of Belgium that accounts for 5% of all arable land in Ukraine.23

http://www.oaklandinstitute.org/sites/oaklandinstitute.org/files/OurBiz_Brief_Ukraine.pdf





Does anyone know if Ukraine plans on privatizing agriculture so it can be legally owned?  I quoted my past post here because according to the pdf link, they mentioned IMF and Worldbank were pushing for more privatization in order to bring in foreign investment.

[Boethius]

Those companies lease the land.  They can't own it, legally. 

[Boethius]

No, the US will do things like charge a 30% witholding tax on outgoing
transactions until compliance is met. See Swiss banking.   If that isn't sanctions I don't know what is.

I have no issue with that.  People should not be allowed to hide money abroad.

[LiveFromUkraine]

Those companies lease the land.  They can't own it, legally.

I'll take your word for it since I have no clue.  haha  Still, that is a lot of land that is being controlled by foreign companies even if by lease.  I would imagine these are rather long term leases at that.

[Gator]

Gator I hold it is you that isn't thinking clearly or completely.  The list of sanctioned nations doesn't account for the fact that  unsanctioned nations are working with them, as many nations don't want the threat of sanctions to impact their design making to the extent it might currently. 

You were the one who wrote "sanctioned nations."  Please write clearly if you attempt to make a point.  However,  part of writing clearly is thinking clearly, something beyond you. 

Much of the world's population are moving in a direction that will harm our interests and I contend we are making this happen with our meddling.

Three points:   

1.  The difference between the West and Putin is one word, control.   If the US were interested in control, we would have done what the Soviets did in Europe after WWII.   Do you think the other countries mentioned such as India and China would trust Russia?

2.  Also, why would China take steps that would "harm" its customers?  China's economy has improved dramatically not because of being a gas station (Russia) but because they take raw materials, add value to them and sell the finished products to the West (Japan's model).   The correct policy for world posterity is  global economic growth, not control.

3.  India and China are under no threat of being sanctioned.

So now you are upset and telling Mendeleyev he shouldn't discuss this because it upsets YOU that the viewpoint is counter to your silly rosy one.  I'm happy he has shown the meddle, instead of throwing tantrums as you have done in the past.

That's not it.  Mendy is a far better writer than me; it is his profession.  He is able to use more compassion and elegance in pointing out that you are a blockhead, even suggesting the possibility there is hope for you.  I, OTOH,  know both your darkside and your lack of depth.  You are hopeless, so hopeless that you do not recognize your failings.

[LiveFromUkraine]

I have no issue with that.  People should not be allowed to hide money abroad.

Well, the fact still remains the US pushed it's agenda on a sovereign nation through fines and taxes.  In any case, I see this type of actions as a slippery slope.  Where does it become too much?

[jone]

I agree with Gator.  There are many countries in the world with which the U.S. does not agree, but which are not subject to sanctions.  A year ago, there were significant differences between Russia and the U.S. on several issues, yet Russia was not under sanctions.  Moreover, the fact the EU is on board with these sanctions, and even more, is significant.
 
On land, Ukrainian agricultural land cannot be sold to foreigners, at least, not huge tracts of land.  It can be leased long term.

Ironically, this last statement is also true in Russia.  Because of this, and a lack of capital for local investment, much of the land in Russia still remains fallow.  One of our endeavors in Russia was to create an experimental farm which had breeding stock and would inseminate cows for dairy herds, etc.  We could only buy sufficient farmland to feed the dairy herd we were using for the farm, no more.  Fortunately we perfected title on the land we had or it would probably already be under review for redistribution.  I no longer have a financial interest in this endeavor.

Great tracts of farmland in Russia are not developed because there aren't any investors to put the land into production.  The land is still owned by the State, the same situation it was in under the Soviet Union.  This is the stilted growth and infrastructure created by the current system of government.  The end result:  Buy grains and meat from other countries.  Pay for it with oil revenue.  In essence, Russia is a large gas station that does trade through oil distribution.

[Gator]

Well, the fact still remains the US pushed it's agenda on a sovereign nation through fines and taxes.  In any case, I see this type of actions as a slippery slope.  Where does it become too much?

Aren't the fines levied against Swiss banks not Switzerland.  Sometimes part of the fines are paid to other countries including Switzerland. 

... the Swiss bank [UBS] admitted to fraud and bribery in connection with efforts to rig the interest rates and agreed to pay $1.5 billion in fines to regulators in the United States, UK and Switzerland.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/12/19/us-ubs-libor-idUSBRE8BI00020121219

Regarding 30% withholding tax on transactions with foreign bank accounts, I agree with Boethius.  A US citizen is required to report all income.  Some large fat cats do not.  If the cheating fat cats do not want to pay taxes, renounce their US citizenship. 

[LiveFromUkraine]

http://www.oaklandinstitute.org/sites/oaklandinstitute.org/files/OurBiz_Brief_Ukraine.pdf

Damn it, I was trying to quote the link I posted earlier and accidentally modifed that post. 


Here was my question again:


Does anyone know if Ukraine plans on privatizing agriculture so it can be legally owned by foreigners?  I quoted my past post here because according to the pdf link, they mentioned IMF and Worldbank were pushing for more privatization in order to bring in foreign investment.

[LiveFromUkraine]

Aren't the fines levied against Swiss banks not Switzerland.  Sometimes part of the fines are paid to other countries including Switzerland. 

How are the Swiss banks suppose to remain legal under Swiss law and give up the goods on it's customers?  I think, in this day and age, an attack on a nation's banks is an attack on the country.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/12/19/us-ubs-libor-idUSBRE8BI00020121219

Regarding 30% withholding tax on transactions with foreign bank accounts, I agree with Boethius.  A US citizen is required to report all income.  Some large fat cats do not.  If the cheating fat cats do not want to pay taxes, renounce their US citizenship.

Screw sovereignty if you and others think it is the right thing to do. 

[jone]

Two separate things, LFU:

1.  Privatization:  The Ukrainian government has allowed almost all land to become privately held.  Through graft and corruption there is a concentration of land held by a few. 

2.  Foreign investors, as Bo stated, are not allowed to hold large tracts of land.  There are companies, particularly in Poland, that would like to own land in Ukraine but are not allowed to do so.  Anyone driving from Ukraine to Poland will see a significant change of development between the two countries, with Poland having modernized its farming operation.

[jone]

If the reforms required by the EU hold in the Rada, I could see  a time in the very near future where there would be a run on farming in Ukraine.  I spent a significant amount of time in the Mykolaiv area reviewing old farming infrastructure left over from SU days.

[Boethius]

How are the Swiss banks suppose to remain legal under Swiss law and give up the goods on it's customers?  I think, in this day and age, an attack on a nation's banks is an attack on the country.

They don't have to do business in the U.S.  The U.S. has no jurisdiction in Switzerland.

Screw sovereignty if you and others think it is the right thing to do.

See above.  BTW, it is not just Switzerland caught in this.  Canadian banks have to hand over information as well.  The difference is, Americans with Canadian bank accounts are already paying tax on those accounts.