Tonight - PBS Scathing Report on Putin

[ML]

Update on Khodorkovsky and his plans.

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/01/12/remote-control-2

[Muzh]

Why not?   

In Putin's first Presidential election, Russians thought him a strong leader who killed Chechens (not knowing that Putin had murdered hundreds  of Russians as a subterfuge to create a wave of terror in Russia, thereby justifying  the war against Chechens that made Putin seem strong).   This parallels the need to "protect ethnic Russians in Ukraine."   

{Screeching halt}


Hold it. Totally disagree with you. People knew about the next bombs that didn't go off and how they were starting to point a finger at Putler. They just wanted to believe and needed a scapegoat to all their problems.


Any Moscovite that tells you the Chechens blew up that building is lying shamesly to you. Or is a Moskali.

[Belvis]

I agree that something is wrong.  However, I don't believe the average Russians are hardwired by their DNA to behave this way.      I believe it is the environment, not genetics.

Man inside the Matrix can't see the world beyond of it.  And I mean not Russians. 
Though may be you're right, it's just the effect of low-calorie diet, and may be insufficient insolation.

[Photo Guy]

I shall tune in. Thanks. Should be interesting.
But, I'm afraid Western media might tell us lies about Putin. He is a very religious Christian and he cares about Russian-speakers everywhere. (satire) 

[Faux Pas]

I've been trying to better understand Russians and their POV.  Crimea as one example has sunk in as far as they have historical ties to that property going way back.  It wasn't legal but it's done and I personally think Ukraine is better off without it.

Could you give an explanation of your opinions about the Russian POV?

There is no "Russian POV" as ML would like to believe. His constant snide remarks and stereo typing would be no different than saying all American's are Jew hating Muslim sympathizers because Obama is. The polls indicate Putin enjoys an 80% approval rating. While that may actually be true, I doubt that it is. Belvis and Doll both indicate they'll follow Putin to the gates of hell and they might but, I know a few Russians that would definitely say that publicly all the while thinking something completely different.

There is a different mindset because they have different history. That doesn't mean even those that truly support Putin (while clearly many do) have a brain or any other defect. There is a strong Pro Putin propaganda show in Russia. Most Russians will half  believe it before they will believe Western propaganda (and yes the Western version is just another version) Putin is their leader and the Authoritarian rule clamp is getting tighter and most Russians are feeling it. Russians have a tendency to go with the devil they know and they've experienced much more in the way of devils than the average American.

[Photo Guy]

There's a divergence of views over there, based on the recent economic summit. If Hitler invades Poland, it has to be supported by Germans. And I pray for the dissenters...
Also- to equate Western propaganda with Russian propaganda is insane. Need examples?

[calmissile]

When I arrived at work today I was surprised when some of my techs and engineers asked me if I watched the program.  I assumed that hardly anyone watched PBS.

IMO it was a very good show.  It should be shown to every American child in their history classes.

I read where many Russians are getting around Putin's control of the internet by using proxy server addresses and are getting western news in  their homes.  In reviewing the history of Maiden (I was there part of the time) it was apparent that the Ukraine public went ballistic when the personal wealth and thievery of public money was made public.  The scenes at his estate were a good reminder of the public outrage.

I am wondering if a new strategy to unseat Putin might be possible using the lessons and tactics of how Yanukovich was removed.  I would think that there is nothing more powerful to raise the ire of the population than a very well made presentation of the amount of money Putin has stolen from the citizens of Russia.  While Putin has some control over content on the internet, I suspect that he has little control over the internal communications between the common people.

Another question.  Isn't it about time to sanction and confiscate his personal wealth instead of just his inner circle?

[Photo Guy]

Not listed on my TV listings, but found it online:
'Putin's Way'



     
     

[Brasscasing]

When I arrived at work today I was surprised when some of my techs and engineers asked me if I watched the program.  I assumed that hardly anyone watched PBS.

IMO it was a very good show.  It should be shown to every American child in their history classes.

I read where many Russians are getting around Putin's control of the internet by using proxy server addresses and are getting western news in  their homes.  In reviewing the history of Maiden (I was there part of the time) it was apparent that the Ukraine public went ballistic when the personal wealth and thievery of public money was made public.  The scenes at his estate were a good reminder of the public outrage.

I am wondering if a new strategy to unseat Putin might be possible using the lessons and tactics of how Yanukovich was removed.  I would think that there is nothing more powerful to raise the ire of the population than a very well made presentation of the amount of money Putin has stolen from the citizens of Russia.  While Putin has some control over content on the internet, I suspect that he has little control over the internal communications between the common people.

Another question.  Isn't it about time to sanction and confiscate his personal wealth instead of just his inner circle?

Good question. Canadian opposition politicians have been asking the same questions.

I would like to see him personally sanctioned. Just about everyone else he comes in contact with is...

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26672800

It may have something to do with the idea that if he is sanctioned the West has basically declared him an outlaw and they might want to leave that door diplomatically open for now. I don't think Medvedev's on the list either yet.

Speaking of outlaws looks as though Mr. Yanukovych is a wanted man...

http://www.interpol.int/notice/search/wanted/2014-13031

According to other press releases this is not an arrest on sight warrant but enough for an extradition hearing if Russia were so inclined which they are not, of course.

Brass

[JayH]

TRANSCRIPT--

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/foreign-affairs-defense/putins-way/transcript-74/

[JayH]

I would like to see him personally sanctioned. Just about everyone else he comes in contact with is...

Brass

I agree with Calmissile and your comments.
 You may be right about not overdoing it too soon.
However-- right from the start I advocated pursuing the individuals with every resource possible
Using Sanctions now to pursue  every Russian ( & former Russian) over every  dollar( or rubble) they control down every rat hole everywhere-- add anyone or country that seeks to obstruct to the full on sanctions list .
Freeze those assets asap -- that will get some attention.
In addition-- do the same for Ukrainians  who have exploited the system--put the onus on them to prove assets have been acquired in a proper and legal way and are untainted.
I would also freeze their passports-wherever they are--prevent them and families from moving anywhere-put the onus on them to establish their bona -fides.
The point-- the pressure being applied to the Russians at the top of the tree will very quickly see them very interested in trying to keep what they have-- and if that means removing Putin and Kremlin cronies  to achieve a new direction in Russia - it will get done.
The negative impact of the Sanctions should be incentive to see Russia want to join the world again.
Combined with the overall reverasal of the Russian economy-- and the personal pain-- this is the fastest way of really getting at Putin and Russia--his "associates" will do what is required!!

[AC]

There is no "Russian POV" as ML would like to believe. His constant snide remarks and stereo typing would be no different than saying all American's are Jew hating Muslim sympathizers because Obama is. The polls indicate Putin enjoys an 80% approval rating. While that may actually be true, I doubt that it is. Belvis and Doll both indicate they'll follow Putin to the gates of hell and they might but, I know a few Russians that would definitely say that publicly all the while thinking something completely different.

There is a different mindset because they have different history. That doesn't mean even those that truly support Putin (while clearly many do) have a brain or any other defect. There is a strong Pro Putin propaganda show in Russia. Most Russians will half  believe it before they will believe Western propaganda (and yes the Western version is just another version) Putin is their leader and the Authoritarian rule clamp is getting tighter and most Russians are feeling it. Russians have a tendency to go with the devil they know and they've experienced much more in the way of devils than the average American.

Thanks for your reply.  I think a big part of the problem is that both the TV and print provides a united front telling just one version of the story.  Historically of course Russians also tend to believe that Ukraine was part of their empire, and with the reports about Ukraine being hi-jacked by Nazi's then of course they feel they should intervene.

My personal belief is that Putin's real popularity is 60% with 40% not caring for him -- but who are they going to tell when they could lose their jobs, their home and their life savings if they were aggressive with their opinions?

[Muzh]

When I arrived at work today I was surprised when some of my techs and engineers asked me if I watched the program.  I assumed that hardly anyone watched PBS.

Wonders don't cease to exist, don't they?

[Muzh]

In reviewing the history of Maiden

Maiden = Babe


MaidAn = Ukrainian Revolution

[Photo Guy]

Trouble posting this link to 'Putin's Way' Frontline PBS.
Anyway, google 'PBS Video Putin's Way' ...pretty easy to find.

     

[Doll]

Or is a Moskali

[lordtiberius]

The rat is going to jump.  Re-think that first strike opetion

[Gator]

Ahem. That number is 4 years old. With all the "interest" accrued by now it must be at least twice that much.

I adjusted for the 50% decline in the ruble.      

Actually, there is nothing humorous about this.    To realize how "Putin's way" materially damaged the general welfare of virtually all Russians.  It is so wrong.

I got the same feeling when watching  HBO's Bill Maher Monday.   Maher's writers came up with the names of 10 controversial films to be released by the studios who produced The Interview.  Heading the Top 10 films was Bill Cosby in While You Were Sleeping.   I laughed then in the same breath caught myself because rape is not funny.  And that is what Putin did while mother Russia was sleeping.

[AC]

Ahem. That number is 4 years old. With all the "interest" accrued by now it must be at least twice that much.



When they showed him walking down some aisles to a resounding applause I can imagine what was on his mind every time he looked one way and then the other. Maybe something like: What an idiot. (Turn head the other way) Heh, moron. (Turn head again and points to someone) Dickhead, if you only knew I stole everything from you, including your underwear. Heh heh heh

Whether Putin stole 40 Billion, 50 Billion, 60 Billion or 80 Billion it's peanuts compared to the money which "Presdent" Obama has stolen from the American people in lost wages and future tax burdens on their children and grandchildren.

When Obama took office we were only 4 Trillion in debit.  We are now 18 Trillion in debt.

That's 14 Trillion in little over 5 years.  Has Mr. Putin added 14 Trillion to his nations debt?  I think not.

You talk about Putin walking down some aisles to applause.  I think of the great pretender and his speech in Europe to applause by all the Euro-sheeple.  His beaming his huge grin and thinking "that's right, I'm a Marxist, and I'm going to tax the American people to death in my quest to completely alter that country and give them Socialism" dickheads.  All the Euro-trash-sheeple-fools ate it up.  MsNBC, CNN, etc have given this guy the largest pass in history, and you want to complain about Putin.

Terrorism is way up in the World, but the great pretender won't call it what it is:  Islamic Extremist Terrorism.

As poster Faux Pas said he sympathizes with Muslims, while disrespecting the best ally we have in the ME.

The great pretender showed his true colors by not attending the historic walk in support of the French.  The Russians and Germans were there.

The great pretender refuses to approve the Keystone pipeline.  The great pretender is hell bent on buying more votes by giving amnesty to another 15 million illegal immigrants.

Yes, Putin is a bad guy.  Yet I can see why the Russian people like him.  Obviously this is changing because he's irrevocably damaged their economy.  Just like Obama has irrevocably damaged America.

[TheBullRDR]

Well Said AC

 

[JayH]

 

Did anyone notice the thread is about Putin?

[AkMike]

LOL, Like it's the first time a thread ever got hijacked?? 

 My crystal ball says it won't be the last time either! 

[JayH]

LOL, Like it's the first time a thread ever got hijacked?? 

 My crystal ball says it won't be the last time either! 

Yeah--but venting on the other side of the world has zero relevance-- and I am a bit over hearing internal US stuff and being told not to comment!!  half joking--but really-- put it in it's own thread and see how much interest there is( not!!)

[AkMike]

It'll get back on track sooner or later..


 Maybe? 

[mendeleyev]

Frontline did an excellent job with this and while it is a work of extreme importance, there are other works which will help those interested to "connect the dots" that you have seen in this work.