It has been quite some time since I posted here. Real life has been quite busy and intruding into my ability to post. Nice to see some old names still active here.
I debated about where to post this but I thought it would be most relevant early on in the search. Some things to think about during the search would be the impact of your future wife (hopefully you are actually searching for your other half with the intent to marry her) and her profession. While there is some attention paid in some forums about her future job prospects I don’t think there is enough. Some women are very career minded an other not so much. This likely will impact many of you regardless.
I think it would be helpful to have a sub-forum here to discuss the impact/pitfalls/opportunities etc. as they relate to your future partner’s profession. I have lost count the number of women I have dated in my life and not that I am Don Juan either. I can honestly say every woman I dated was with the intent to have something more than just a meaningful overnight relationship. Finally I think I saved the best woman for last but that isn't the purpose of this post but there is content related to my personal situation.
Along the way, while dating quite a few RW/UW, I often took time to think about the impact of their profession on our potential future lives together though it was never a criteria I would focus early on however in retrospect I should have paid more attention to it. Some very well educated women are working as shop keepers. Others in very low paying jobs even though well educated. Then there are women with almost no education at all.
Depending on your particular financial situation it may be necessary that your future wife works. In my situation it isn’t necessary but some women want to work. Depending on where you live there could be numerous barriers to your wife’s ability to working locally. Obviously language is likely to be the primary one. Of course this can be one in the relationship as well. I speak fluent Russian and the love of my life speaks even better English than I do Russian.
Some things I’ve learned over the many years I’ve dated RW (now over 20 years) is that the potential for your RW/UW to work here can be very limited even if they are very well educated and established professionally in their home country. If the need for them to work here is important then I encourage you to include this as search criteria regarding their education and profession.
Also be realistic about your intellectual level as well. If there are vast disparities between your intellects you likely will have issues. Not to say it can’t work if you are Einstein and she is a IQ points shy of a box of rock (or vice versa) but it will be just another area you have to contend with.
Unfortunately a Russian/Ukrainian education isn’t valued much beyond the hard sciences and computers. If she is good at math, physics, chemistry, programming, etc. she will have decent job opportunities at least in the US. If your plan is to just keep her barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen, then not much to worry about. I jest of course but I think that is the mentality of some men.
Not to say that she can’t work in her field but often she may need to almost completely repeat schooling. Some professions I’ve found to be problematic in these areas are medicine, dentistry and pharmacological area. The barriers to these fields are quite high even for people in the US let alone foreigners. Most women aren’t going to want to repeat med school to become a doctor not to mention the intense competition for med school for example. Her English skill better be amazing to stand a chance on the MCAT exam.
But with a little creativity you maybe find a compromise. If she was a doctor perhaps she can consider nursing which has decent pay and a lower barrier to entry. If she enjoys helping people still might enjoy and the pay isn’t too bad as well in many areas depending on the specialty. Many areas she could be a nurse in about 2 years of schooling.
If a dentist there, a dental hygienist might be an option here. Again a minimal amount of schooling and she can have a decent career.
If she is a mechanical engineer or related fields then not too difficult to find employment in the US. One area that was a surprise to me was the area of law in the US. So for the sake of saving some others time here is what we've learned during our journey in this area over the past several months. Keep in mind that with respect to all professions rules, regulations and licensing frequently change and each state can vary. Be sure to check for updated info and don’t totally rely on any info here as to be 100% accurate but it could help point you in the right direction.
If your woman has a formal legal education as a lawyer in her home country, it isn’t impossible to become a lawyer here without the need repeat a complete legal education. Currently there are 30 U.S. jurisdictions that permit non-U.S.-trained law graduates to become members of the bar. These jurisdictions include 27 states, the District of Columbia (Washington, D.C.), Palau, and the U.S. Virgin Islands.
Often once you have passed the bar in one state, you can then potentially sit for the bar in another. Some of the key states where foreign trained lawyers can practice are NY, CA, TX, IL and DC. For the 2014 Bar Admissions Requirements here: (look at chart 4 on page 11)
http://www.ncbex.org/assets/media_files/Comp-Guide/CompGuide.pdf The easiest way we’ve found for us is to find an ABA (American Bar Association) accredited law school that offers a LL.M. (Masters of Law) degree that is open to foreign trained students. Many states require additional training of foreign trained lawyers at an ABA accredited school. Successful completion of an LLM degree will typically suffice but be sure you have enough credit hours for each state. Typically if you have 24 or more that is typically sufficient.
Make sure you check with your state bar association to make sure there are no surprises with respect to educational hours required or prior evaluation of your CV. Some states you must apply a year in advance or so to sit for the bar.
I’ll provide a bit more detail about the path we’ve chosen. Based on our review of our situation (yours may be similar or not) we decided the best route was to apply to an ABA approved school, get accepted and then successfully complete a LLM program whereupon she will study for the bar and hopefully pass.
Currently we are in the application process to LLM programs. In the US law schools are ranked by Tiers 1-4. Ideally you want to land a slot at a T1 school and the higher up the better. At the very top are what are called the T14 school which are typically the best of the best such as Yale, Harvard, Stanford, NYU, etc. Where you graduate from can have a huge impact on your future employment prospects and in law it is very critical. The odds of getting accepted to these top schools are very small even for the very highly qualified applicants applying to them.
The minimum admission standards are very high with a high level of English ability for the T1 schools. At a minimum you’ll need at least 100 (out of 120 max) on the TOEFL iBT. You are going into a Master’s level degree program and they expect you to have the requisite level of English ability to be successful in a challenging program. Obviously at the more competitive schools higher is better. Without having taken the test before, she got 110 on her first attempt and was disappointed that she didn’t do better. To put that result in perspective they tested a native English speaking student who was at the 95th percentile (on the SAT) and they scored 105 with no prior experience.
She’ll need her transcripts from her school as ultimately letters of recommendation. Past academic excellence goes a long way. Most schools accept online applications. Go to
www.LSAC.org (Law School Admissions Council) to find out more. . The entire process can be time consuming so start early if possible. It took us longer to get some of the info and her credentials evaluated than we anticipated which impacted the ability to apply to some of the top schools as they had earlier deadlines. In addition make sure you spend some serious time writing a good personal statement. This is a very key task.
So at a minimum try in getting a Tier 1 school with the hope of getting into a T14 school if at all possible. Of course geographically this may not work for some of you. We are willing to relocate depending on wherever my lady gets accepted. So far she has been accepted to several T1 school and we expect a few more offers by the time most schools finish up which is by mid-March. Apply earlier rather than later as you are more likely to get an earlier decision. Normally a request in an interview is a good thing but not always done. With one T1 school we had an interview request 2 days after the application was submitted electronically and the next day after her interview we received an offer letter.
The downside to all of this, besides the time involved, will be the cost. As a foreign student there are limited options for financial aid. Having said that we have some decent offers for tuition assistance but the cost can still be substantial and even more so for the top tier schools. Surprisingly even some of the very lowly ranked schools can be very expensive. Be aware that often the financial aid deadlines are sooner than normal admission and/or require supporting documentation or some sort of essay.
The range of tuition for the schools we’ve applied to range from $30k to about $60k for tuition and other fees but without living expenses factored in. Obviously this isn’t an insignificant sum. How you fund your education obviously will depend on your financial situation. My lady loves her career and wants to continue it in the US.
Is it all worth the effort? Too early to say for us for certain as it is a significant time and financial investment. If she does well at a Tier 1 school she should have very good employment prospects. If she goes to a large firm we can recoup our investment in the first 6 months of her work if she gets in a decent law firm.
There are all the pitfalls of normal graduates from law school but the added ones of being a foreigner. Sometimes you can turn this to your advantage if you find work with an international law firm. In addition your lady may already have a very solid legal career and this can be helpful and offset some of the potential negatives. Every situation is different but try to play to her strengths. My lady was responsible for some very successful litigation in international courts resulting in multi-million Euro awards for her clients. A proven track record can be an asset compared to students just out of school with nothing but an academic record to show even if it isn’t in the US legal system.
So for many states practicing as a lawyer may not be a huge barrier to entry with a little planning and an investment of time. It might be worth it for some of the women. Obviously before you invest such a substantial sum in her education you need to be very sure about your relationship.
One issue we had early on was my aversion to lawyers in general. When we first starting dating she couldn’t understand why I was so against her profession. Her position was why wouldn’t I be in favor of a woman who is intelligent, well-educated, successful and attractive. I said it could all be summed up by one word; “LAWYER”. She couldn’t understand my aversion for the longest time. I told her a lot of lawyer jokes. Explained the context for my viewpoint and so on to no avail and ultimately chocked it up to just a cultural difference. Then one day it all changed for her. She had to deal with attorney from NYC. She finished her meeting and gave me a call immediately. Basically the one meeting opened her eyes to what attorneys are like in the US. It was a contract negotiating meeting and she was pretty thoroughly repulsed by his obnoxious behavior and lack of manner not to mention his Empire State Building sized ego. So now we are on the same page about most “American” lawyers of which she has no desire to emulate their boorish behavior.
At this point we are just in a waiting game to see what school offers the best combination of prominence, financial aid, location and future employment prospects. Since she has been accepted to very well regarded schools now, we can play the waiting game to see if anything better comes along. Almost like a WMVM strategy.
I know this is sort of long post but hopefully informative. Think through the impact of her profession especially if she wants to continue it wherever you live.
