Economic war

[lordtiberius]

http://beforeitsnews.com/survival/2015/01/putin-strikes-back-russia-cuts-off-european-gas-supplies-starts-selling-dollars-the-decision-has-been-made-2555318.html

Without comment

[iceshaft07]

I'm not sure I trust this new source.

I haven't seen this story on any of the following websites:
cnn.com
foxnews.com
bbc.com
themoscowtimes.com
kyivpost.com

In addition, I also see that they make references the QZ8501's black box being a terrorist attack. If it was, I would expect this would be making headlines immediately.

It's been 11 hours now too. I would expect to see something more by now, especially either from my soon-to-be wife, or kyivpost.com.

[lordtiberius]

It is in keeping with the cornered rat theory.  But I welcome your prudence.

FYI:
http://www.theblaze.com/contributions/the-west-has-putin-in-a-box-but-refuses-to-pull-the-trigger/

[JayH]

I'm not sure I trust this new source.
.

 

[krimster2]

I don't believe that this story is correct, but it probably will be within the next two years.  Europe (and even the US) should remember Jimmy Carter's speech where he compared the energy crisis with the "moral equivalent of war", and prepare accordingly, preparing for eliminating energy imports from Russia, should be Europe's top priority right now, primarily through extreme conservation measures, Germany should reverse its nuclear policy and instead start building new reactors and unfortunately switch from nat gas to coal, us should start building liquification plants to export gas, we built the manhattan project in 3 years, we can do this...

[AC]

I don't believe that this story is correct, but it probably will be within the next two years.  Europe (and even the US) should remember Jimmy Carter's speech where he compared the energy crisis with the "moral equivalent of war", and prepare accordingly, preparing for eliminating energy imports from Russia, should be Europe's top priority right now, primarily through extreme conservation measures, Germany should reverse its nuclear policy and instead start building new reactors and unfortunately switch from nat gas to coal, us should start building liquification plants to export gas, we built the manhattan project in 3 years, we can do this...

Sorry pal while I like your optimism Obama is still Prez and he couldn't build the Manhattan project in 30 years.

[Misha]

preparing for eliminating energy imports from Russia, should be Europe's top priority right now

They have been doing it quietly for years ever since the last gas spat. Norway had already overtaken Russia as Europe's leading supplier of natural gas in 2012. Other countries will be more than happy to take up Russian market share (Qatar among others). Rational companies and states do their best to keep their market share, while GAZPROM and Russia have been doing their best to market their competitor's gas by making themselves into pouty and unreliable suppliers 


Also, the Germans have been building wind turbines and putting in solar cells on as many rooftops as they can. The result: we visited extended kin in Germany and they showed us a new house that they had finished building. I asked them what they chose for heating, and they said electricity as it was cheaper than gas   


Simply put, Russia is ensuring that it will soon reach zero market share in Europe...

[ML]

Rational companies and states do their best to keep their market share, while GAZPROM and Russia have been doing their best to market their competitor's gas by making themselves into pouty and unreliable suppliers 

Simply put, Russia is ensuring that it will soon reach zero market share in Europe...

This is what myself and the companies I consulted for noticed with Russians from the very beginning.

They have no concept of trying to maximize long-run profits,
instead only being concerned with trying to get the max today only and showing zero understanding that the bad faith they show can only doom their future business relations.

[AC]

They have been doing it quietly for years ever since the last gas spat. Norway had already overtaken Russia as Europe's leading supplier of natural gas in 2012. Other countries will be more than happy to take up Russian market share (Qatar among others). Rational companies and states do their best to keep their market share, while GAZPROM and Russia have been doing their best to market their competitor's gas by making themselves into pouty and unreliable suppliers 


Also, the Germans have been building wind turbines and putting in solar cells on as many rooftops as they can. The result: we visited extended kin in Germany and they showed us a new house that they had finished building. I asked them what they chose for heating, and they said electricity as it was cheaper than gas   


Simply put, Russia is ensuring that it will soon reach zero market share in Europe...

I think this is a high probability within 5 years.  That's also my timeline for the demise of Mr. Putin.

[Steamer]

Rational companies and states do their best to keep their market share, while GAZPROM and Russia have been doing their best to market their competitor's gas by making themselves into pouty and unreliable suppliers 

Russia will not allow the EU, US or anyone else to dictate (by economic threats) what their policies should be toward their own security. No country would (or should).

[Boethius]

How was Ukraine signing an Association Agreement with the EU a threat to Russia's security?

[Steamer]

How was Ukraine signing an Association Agreement with the EU a threat to Russia's security?

Encroachment.

[Boethius]

Ukraine is a sovereign nation.  How is it deciding its own internal affairs an encroachment on Russia?

[Steamer]

Ukraine is a sovereign nation.  How is it deciding its own internal affairs an encroachment on Russia?

It would be the same if Canada and Russia sought an economic alliance and then had talks about putting Russian bases in Canada. The US would view this as encroachment.

[jone]

Steamer,

You just stepped on something.  I hope it didn't hurt.

Neither the US nor the European Union had any discussions about placing bases or joining NATO.  As a matter of policy, Ukraine was told it COULD NOT join NATO. 

If Canada decided it was in its best interest to form an economic alliance with, say, China, the US would certainly not invade Canada to prevent it.

Your positioning of facts is a far cry from reality.  Step away from the Kool Aid. 

The cold facts are that if Russia had played things cool instead of going off on a wild-ass tangent, things would have worked out fine for Russian interests.  There is no reason to believe that a Ukrainian government would have ceased relations with Russia simply because they wished to align themselves with their next door neighbors to the West.

By carving off the parts of Ukraine that had the most Russian speakers in the population, Russia polarized the populace by removing the group of people that would continue to support Ukrainian/Russo relationships.  Now, by claiming that Ukraine is run by a Nazi Junta, Russia further alienates its own people against the Ukrainians. 

Simply put, whether Ukraine moved in the direction of a European affiliation (after all Ukraine is a part of Europe) it was the heavy handed politics and the subsequent invasion that permanently twisted Ukraine out of Russia's sphere of influence.  With it went Russia's hopes of a Eurasian commonwealth and has put friend and foe alike (who were Russia's foes prior to the end of the Olympic games?) on notice that Russia cannot be trusted.

Ask a Belarusian how they now feel about Russian encroachment.  You will find a wariness that was previously not there.  (Trust me, I have some insight into how Belarusians think.)

NATO has no plans to place bases in Ukraine, nor, at this time, to do anything more than mildly affiliate with Ukraine on joint exercises.  However, if Russia chooses to further invade Eastern Ukraine, all bets are off.  Moreover, instead of having a desired effect (Putin was told by his political advisers that the great majority of Eastern and Southern Ukrainians wanted to be part of Novorossiya) the Baltic countries, as well as Poland now are on high alert and are slowly isolating Moscow.  I am certain that this is NOT what Putin's advisers told him would happen when he opted for control of Krim.

[Hammer2722]

Ask a Belarusian how they now feel about Russian encroachment.  You will find a wariness that was previously not there.  (Trust me, I have some insight into how Belarusians think.)

My girl is from Belarus, she says most Belarusians don't trust Putin at all. They believe he will eventually turn his attention to them.

[jone]

I hear the same thing on my end, Hammer.

[AC]

How to win friends and influence people in high places, by V. Putin. 
Right now his best friend is the guy in N. Korea.  The others are fading fast.

[BillyB]

Economic war against Russia is running out of gas. The West isn't as united anymore and 7 nations are wanting to end the sanctions against Russia. Most likely after their meeting, the sanctions will soften. Putin will be happy to see the West isn't as united as they'd like him to believe.


http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/579370/20150116/russia-uk-sanctions-eu.htm#.VLmCobk5CUn

[lordtiberius]

Economic war against Russia is running out of gas. The West isn't as united anymore and 7 nations are wanting to end the sanctions against Russia. Most likely after their meeting, the sanctions will soften. Putin will be happy to see the West isn't as united as they'd like him to believe.


http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/579370/20150116/russia-uk-sanctions-eu.htm#.VLmCobk5CUn

from the article you quoted, which reported the airport in Russian hands btw:

Austria, Cyprus, Czech Republic, France, Italy, Hungary and Slovakia are reportedly in agreement on the matter.

Putin "not invited" to G7

As long as Russia is isolated from the West, Mr Putin has "no chance" of being invited in the next meeting of G7 leaders. Merkel, who will host the G7 summit, said the G7 and the former G8 group is a "community of values" and the annexation of Crimea including the conflict in eastern Ukraine are considered serious violations of these values.

Merkel declared that there was no chance as of the moment for Mr Putin to be invited in the G7 summit, Reuters reported. She said the fate of the sanctions imposed on Russia will be discussed further in the spring but they still remain in place given the current situation.

U.S. and UK to face Russian aggression

Meanwhile, in an op-ed article published in a British newspaper, U.S. President Barack Obama and British Prime Minister David Cameron have declared their commitment and "enduring mission" to fight the growing terror threats and stand up to Russian aggression against Ukraine.  The two Western leaders said they will face Russia's aggressive stance in Ukraine since the failure to challenge Moscow may lead to instability as Mr Putin continues to ignore international law.

Mr Obama and Mr Cameron have also pledged to defend freedom and confront terrorists like ISIS, Al-Qaeda and Boko Haram   [RUSSIA] who try to justify their acts of violence with ideology. The two leaders are expected to meet in the White House to discuss more on the global issues including economic growth.

[Steamer]

You just stepped on something.  I hope it didn't hurt.

Not a bit.

Neither the US nor the European Union had any discussions about placing bases or joining NATO.  As a matter of policy, Ukraine was told it COULD NOT join NATO. 

Well it sure isn't for a lack of trying. For as long as they've been independent Ukraine has been begging the EU and NATO for membership but they don't want Ukraine. So now Ukraine is trying to convince anyone that will listen that the US and EU should pounce even harder on Russia but the only ones listening are the US, Poland and the Baltic states. EU is backing off all of this sanction business.  Soon Ukraine will find itself alone and freezing in the corner with no one willing to help.

[lordtiberius]

By soon, you mean right now right?

[Steamer]

Your positioning of facts is a far cry from reality.  Step away from the Kool Aid. 

It was an analogy.

[Doll]

My girl is from Belarus, she says most Belarusians don't trust Putin at all. They believe he will eventually turn his attention to them.

BS

[Steamer]

By soon, you mean right now right?

Things are difficult now but it could get much worse.