Ukraine is losing the war

[JayH]

I'm fairly certain he is a sociopath who doesn't care if his troops are killed.  Were he not, the second Chechen war would not have occurred.

In the convoluted thinking of Putin & Kremlin cronies being able to deny the Russian invasion of Ukraine is somehow easier if Russian aircraft are not involved.Maybe they think it is harder to explain they are lost?Or on holidays?

[Muzh]

Oooooo
ATO forces are Americans and Poles
Oooooooo
I want brain
Oooooo




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[AkMike]

09.02.15 19:02
 Lieutenant Lamaka, who has reported about air strike on the 40th Battalion, confirms his information and will write a statement
авиация
1st company of the 40th Mechanized Infantry Battalion of the Armed Forces troop executive, Senior Lieutenant Lamaka states that he will immediately report on the Russian aviation air strike over the Ukrainian positions witnessed by numerous Ukrainian servicemen as soon as the enemy cease shelling.


Censor.NET Chief Editor Yurii Butusov wrote on his page on Facebook.

According to Butusov, he contacted with Senior Lieutenant Lamaka, who earlier called to Censor.NET editors office and reported that the Russian Air Force strike-fighters have attacked the Ukrainian troops' positions.

Read also: 40th Battalion reports air strikes by Russian air force at Debaltseve. ATO headquarters does not confirm the information.


"The groups of warplanes, which all our servicemen have observed over Novohryhorivka village situated near Debaltseve, have committed several flights above us. We were under heavy shelling since morning and our strong points were hit by a series of strikes with massive ordnance during the ground-support fighters' flights. Being at our positions, we have recognized these strikes as bombing attacks. I am going to make the report on the incident, witnessed by all our personnel, and send it with due ceremony as soon as the hostile shelling will be ceased. The command reestablished communication with our detachment, which was not available for five days, immediately after I had informed Censor.NET. We have received efficient artillery support for the first time in five days, and are currently conducting fire adjustment on enemy firing points, directly interacting with the artillery. I invite everyone, who believes that we have invented the story about the air strike, to our strong points near Debaltseve - you may check it and perform an examination. I guarantee you an unforgettable experience. We are fighting for the third week already and are exposed to daily shelling. Certainly I have been recently phoned and said that I did not have to call anywhere, but for me the security personnel is of top priority, and I am responsible for my guys to perform tasks with minimal losses," Butusov cited the words of 1st company of the 40th Mechanized Infantry Battalion of the Armed Forces troop executive, Senior Lieutenant Lamaka.

Source: http://en.censor.net.ua/n323883Source: http://en.censor.net.ua/n323883


http://en.censor.net.ua/news/323883/lieutenant_lamaka_who_has_reported_about_air_strike_on_the_40th_battalion_confirms_his_information_and

[Anotherkiwi]

Sometimes it's just better to hear it from the horse's mouth:

Utterly charming - not! 

[Boethius]

If Russian planes bombed Ukrainain positions, that would be a game changer.  It can also be easily confirmed by third parties.

[Изумруд]

It appears that the Debaltseve pocket is slowly being closed, which would be a catastrophe with 1000's of troops still there:

The worst case – The pocket of Debaltseve closes, trapping thousands of Ukrainian troops
Posted on February 9, 2015   

This morning, February 9 2015 at 9:25, Russian forces in eastern Ukraine claimed what was looming and inevitable seeing no change in tactics and steadily rising Russian ground forces since the beginning of January, but latest since the fall of Vuhlehirsk on February 4 – the pocket of Debaltseve closed and thousands of Ukrainian soldiers got trapped between the Russian puppet regime republics of Donetsk and Luhansk.

http://conflictreport.info/2015/02/09/the-worst-case-the-pocket-of-debaltseve-closes-trapping-thousands-of-ukrainian-troops/

[fathertime]

If Russian planes bombed Ukrainain positions, that would be a game changer.  It can also be easily confirmed by third parties.

and why would it be a game changer? 


Fathertime! 

[Boethius]

Because the EU would no longer be able to state that denying Ukrainians arms would be the optimal solution.

[Muzh]

and why would it be a game changer? 


Fathertime!

Simples.


Russia cannot use the plausible deniability anymore, basically stating to the world they HAVE invaded Ukraine and it is NOT a civil war.


What do you think will happen next?


Remember Kuwait?

[fathertime]

Because the EU would no longer be able to state that denying Ukrainians arms would be the optimal solution.

Did the EU use the word 'optimal' as it pertains to solutions? 


What might change if Russia starts using bombers to destroy what remains of Ukraine's military, is that Ukraine capitulates sooner...and  that probably is better then letting this drag on for years. 


Fathertime!

[Boethius]

Ukraine will not capitulate.  Better to die free than live as a slave in someone else's home.

[fathertime]

Simples.


Russia cannot use the plausible deniability anymore, basically stating to the world they HAVE invaded Ukraine and it is NOT a civil war.

Was deniability plausible to begin with? Russia will come up with a viable explanation if they say anything...and those that it behooves will 'believe' it.






Fathertime! 

[fathertime]

Ukraine will not capitulate.  Better to die free than live as a slave in someone else's home.

That is a nice slogan and they get to choose, but they shouldn't expect the kind of help they want from the USA.  So far around 5000 people have been killed (which isn't many for a war of this magnitude), when it hits 500,000 we shall see how that slogan flies.


Fathertime! 

[Muzh]

That is a nice slogan and they get to choose, but they shouldn't expect the kind of help they want from the USA.  So far around 5000 people have been killed (which isn't many for a war of this magnitude), when it hits 500,000 we shall see how that slogan flies.


Fathertime!

German intelligence has calculated that number to around 50,000.

[LiveFromUkraine]

Was deniability plausible to begin with? Russia will come up with a viable explanation if they say anything...and those that it behooves will 'believe' it.

Deniability was being used to withhold major support, imo.  Once that is taken away, the western countries will need to make some hard decisions about confronting Russia. 

[Boethius]

Ukraine lost 10 million people in WWII.  It lost millions in WWI.  Its leaders, in past centuries, were drawn and quartered. 
 
This is the longest period of sustained independence in Ukraine's history.  It is too late for Russia to reabsorb the country.
 

[calmissile]

Simples.


Russia cannot use the plausible deniability anymore, basically stating to the world they HAVE invaded Ukraine and it is NOT a civil war.


What do you think will happen next?


Remember Kuwait?

Remember it well and that is exactly what we should have done  for them (after being asked).  All this bullshit talking to Russia is useless and anyone old enough to remember the cold war should already know it!  I am beginning to think Europe has become a bunch of pacifists that won't even defend their own countries.  Maybe Putin has more grandiose ideas for further expansion after Ukraine.

[fathertime]

German intelligence has calculated that number to around 50,000.

I hadn't heard that number were killed thus far...it has always been reported as 5k or 5.5k or something along those lines. 


Fathertime!   

[jone]

If you are comparing Kuwait to Ukraine, I will remind you all that Iraq is NOT Russia.  Russia is a slightly different animal and fighting on its (comparatively) home turf.

[AkMike]

LPR militants claim to have used warplane

(Note that this was reported on the 4th of Feb)

04.02.2015 | 14:00

The militants of the Luhansk People’s Republic organization have said that they attacked a Ukrainian armed forces column near Debaltseve using an aircraft, Russian news agency RIA Novosti reported on Wednesday.

According to the report, the militants said they used a Ukrainian Su-25 jet aircraft that was captured in July, 2014.

Ukraine has linked militant's claims of using the aviation with the possible use of Russian air forces in the Donbas.

"The militants have created a basis in order to for Russian Su-25 jet aircraft to be used in Donetsk and Luhansk regions," MP form the Bloc of Poroshenko Party Yuliy Mamchur said.

As reported earlier, Ukraine claimed that aircraft and helicopters that could have been used by the militants were destroyed as a result of a special operation by Ukrainian forces.


Read more on UNIAN: http://www.unian.info/war/1040166-lpr-militants-claim-to-have-used-warplane.html

[Muzh]

If you are comparing Kuwait to Ukraine, I will remind you all that Iraq is NOT Russia.  Russia is a slightly different animal and fighting on its (comparatively) home turf.

It was NOT meant as a comparison between countries, more along the line of emotional response.

[lordtiberius]

For Billy B and the invincibility of the Russian army
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/mobile/opinion/article/russian-army-facing-big-problems-in-ukraine/515636.html

[AkMike]

Russia again used aircraft in the Donbas

Vladimir Kostya February 10, 2015, 1:34
   
Russian-terrorist forces again used military aircraft against the Ukrainian security forces.

This in his blog said volunteer and activist Yury Kasyanov, news reports "Press Ukraine".

"Russia is again used aircraft for our positions in the area Debaltseve. Information on the person I trust," - he said.

Earlier, it was reported that two Russian Su-25 attacked the Ukrainian military positions in the area of ​​Debaltsevo Donetsk region.

This was reported in the press service of the regiment "Azov".

According to the report, the blow was inflicted on the positions of the 40th Battalion.

"Russian aircraft attacked the Ukrainian troops near Novohryhorivka.

2 Su-25 Russian Air Force 20 minutes ago inflicted airstrike on positions 40th Battalion in the area under Novohryhorivka Debaltseve "- said in a statement.

http://uapress.info/uk/news/show/61040

[AC]

Did the EU use the word 'optimal' as it pertains to solutions? 


What might change if Russia starts using bombers to destroy what remains of Ukraine's military, is that Ukraine capitulates sooner...and  that probably is better then letting this drag on for years. 

Uh huh.  The Russian apologist strikes again.  Hey fathertime, are you a member of the American Communist Party?  Still waiting for that answer ft, or is it "live from ukraine the Kremlin".

[fathertime]

Uh huh.  The Russian apologist strikes again.  Hey fathertime, are you a member of the American Communist Party? 

No I'm a Russian General, remember? 


Fathertime!