Immigration issues and eastern ladies

[ukthesis]

I know from experience that the UK Border Agency does not often consider that a "genuine" relationship exists between a man and woman, the latter coming from the east, who have not met in person for a number or weeks (preferably some months) before they apply to get married either in the UK or in her home country.  They are always alert to the possibility of sham or fake marriages to get UK citizenship. 

This is a real practical problem, even assuming the western guy can spare the time from work to go over for let's say 3 months in a year to visit the lady of interest in order to get through the immigration process to enter the west. 

For the girl in the east will normally also be in work, unless she is quite unusual and can afford not to work.  However, if she works legally, she may only be entitled to let's say 3 weeks vacation a year by an employer.  This short time frame is normally not enough for the guy from the west to meet her enough times in her country or in the UK to satisfy the UK immigration people that the couple are in a serious and genuine relationship, enough for her to apply for a fiancee or marriage visa to the UK.

If she works illegally, she also has a problem when the UK immigration people ask on their forms about her employment and where, if she says she is not working, she gets money from to live.  She can get around this by saying that she is supported by others, but it does raise questions for her to answer, and in any case, even if she works illegally (thus is not paid when she does not work) her employer will eventually get tired of the disruption caused if she has to take quite a bit of time out from her work to see the western guy over there enough times to satisfy the UK immigration people.

This issue of a couple both working full time, thus not having enough free time available in a year to spend with each other to satisfy the home immigration authorities, will also apply to other potential brides such as those living in Asia.  And perhaps equally apply to the guys on here from the States looking for someone to eventually marry from eastern Europe including Russia.  Any comments?

[Faux Pas]

Is there and if so, what is the time requirement of the UK immigration folks?

uk, you come across with this line of questioning as looking for a loophole to circumvent the system in place. I don't know the UK immigration system but working within it is strongly advised. Keep in mind, you're not special and your situation is no different from anyone else.

In the U.S., the length of stay afaik is not mentioned at any point. The number of trips or lack of I have heard can be scrutinized. So often guys come here looking to make a single trip be it 3 days or 3 months and bring a woman back home. Maybe it can be done or maybe it can't but, the real yardstick is the relationship. Has both the man and woman done the diligence to develop one and more importantly, a strong one?

More important than trying to meet minimum guidelines put forward by immigration authorities, work on the relationship and once you have that, the rest will fall into place. The relationship is what is scrutinized in the U.S.. If you've worked on that, it will show when it's time to act on her immigration FWIW

[ukthesis]

Thanks for the advice.  But as you may have read, the UK government is always looking for ways to reduce the numbers coming to live here from outside the European Union.  And UK immigration officers have discretion to apply the rules on the "acceptable" number of direct encounters between the guy and the woman according to the political climate.  I do know that when it comes to the former USSR countries, the UK is renowned for taking a harder line on these things.  For example, I know of a very experienced travel agent in Moldova who has never been able to get a visitor VISA for the UK as part of her job, and she says her example is typical.  I have also had similar advice from a UK immigration lawyer.

I don't know about the USA, but if the two parties are going to argue to UK immigration that they are so much in love after only meeting a few weeks, to want to get married, the UK Border Agency will tend to be sceptical about how genuine their relationship is.  There are many people from the east of Europe who want to come to the UK for job and other purposes, and in which getting married to a UK bloke under false pretences is part of the picture.

So immigration officials would require more than a few weeks of the man and woman "getting to know each other" in this context.  This is especially the case with internet relationships, I have also read, that can be a mask for all sorts of practices than (again) UK officials would bear in mind when making decisions.

[Chicagoguy]

I don't know rules in U.K. but I did not want a refusal on our record. Met first time in Moscow [not her home] then 3 months later in Turkey. Many pictures. Plus dumped list of well over 365 emails. 1 every day for all this time.

At interview in embassy in Moscow they only asked her 1 question and then said OK.

[ukthesis]

Interesting.  My reason for asking is that I am indeed in a romantic relationship with a lady in Moldova and I know that this is what they tell me about the UK government's reputation.  In March, the lady is going to apply to the UK for a visitor visa and we are hoping that as we plan to marry (in Moldova) things will go well.  I've been over there several times and I have the photos to prove it.  I can let her stay in a UK home I own, etc. when she comes here, so we are thinking that we have done what we can.  It may be also the case that Moldova is especially scrutinised since it has a reputation for its citizens overstaying their visas simply because it is the poorest country in Europe.

[Faux Pas]

Interesting.  My reason for asking is that I am indeed in a romantic relationship with a lady in Moldova and I know that this is what they tell me about the UK government's reputation.  In March, the lady is going to apply to the UK for a visitor visa and we are hoping that as we plan to marry (in Moldova) things will go well.  I've been over there several times and I have the photos to prove it.  I can let her stay in a UK home I own, etc. when she comes here, so we are thinking that we have done what we can.  It may be also the case that Moldova is especially scrutinised since it has a reputation for its citizens overstaying their visas simply because it is the poorest country in Europe.

Hopefully some guys from the UK who have been through the UK process can chime in. Is the current UK policy to grant a visitors visa  to a woman inside the FSU common? I have no idea but, that is not the case in the U.S.. It wasn't until a couple of years ago that the requirements for such women to visit the U.S. were loosened but still they can come under close scrutiny. Unless of course they sneak across on the Southern border.

My earlier point was to work on and insure there is a relationship and that it is genuine. It sounds as if you have been doing that. If that relationship does exist it's harder for them to deny that it does exist. Remember, those folks are trained to spot signals and signs of those faking it and even those that are real, exhibit some of those signals and signs.

You've made several trips you state. This is good. IMHO the length of the trips are not as important as the number of trips. It sounds like you might be a tad be paranoid that she'll be denied. I'd advise full steam ahead.

[ukthesis]

I'm glad to hear that, and thanks for the positive advice.  I do know that at the end of the day, the decisions are up to the immigration people, but I think I have done what I can from my end to help.  The lady will have to complete the visa form, but they say on it that if it helps, I can include (as her sponsor) in the "supporting documents" section my own bank accounts.  This is so that they can be assured the lady will, in the UK, not rely on UK taxpayer money to stay there.

Generally, have you guys any other advice on this, for example for a happy marriage?  I want to marry the lady from Moldova, in Moldova, in the summer.  Because I have this quite long relationship with her, over the course of a year, I know she is not one of those scammers and fakes that are often mentioned.  She is 51 years old (I am 63) and I know all her family and friends well.  Her parents are both dead.  Because of this, I don't want the trust issue to interfere with our relationship after we marry in Moldova.