Minsk, round two

[mendeleyev]

Am I the only one that thought it odd that Russia be included in negotiations over a conflict in which they claim not to be involved?

I found that just as out of place with the previous round one. If world leaders really wanted to make a point, they should have excluded Russia on the grounds of taking Russia at her word.

[mendeleyev]

There were some interesting points, including this one:

After posing for official photographs the international dignitaries were seated by host Aleksandr Lukashenko, president of Belarus. This video, shown on social media, purports to show Lukashenko attempting to pull the chair out and away from Mr. Putin.



It is kind of funny, especially given the tension between the two men as of late.

However, is this real?

Real in a sense, but this video has been playfully (hopefully that was all) doctored.

The hint of something odd comes if you watch closely as Angela Merkel seems to walk backwards? Is that normal in such a crowded setting? No, of course not. Then, at the same time you see French president François Hollande also moving backwards around the front of the sofa. Again, not realistic.

However that didn't stop Russia's main news station, Channel One, from showing the video and hinting that Lukashenko had tried to have the chair where Mr. Putin was about to take a seat.

Neither did it stop Ukrainian television from showing it, hinting at the troubles between the two leaders.

In reality however, Lukashenko was the host and he was offering the chair while coordinating several things. The least of his thoughts at the time was finding a place to sit in his own presidential palace. Mr. Putin, who dislikes being seen standing next to the taller Lukashenko, wanted to sit and Mr. Lukashenko was busy in conversation, not really realizing that Putin was ready to take a seat.

Here is the real view:



Oh, the world of politics.

[Doll]

Am I the only one that thought it odd that Russia be included in negotiations over a conflict in which they claim not to be involved?

I found that just as out of place with the previous round one. If world leaders really wanted to make a point, they should have excluded Russia on the grounds of taking Russia at her word.

I agree here, but then if Putin is excluded they will admit that Russia is not involved.
They would confess against themselves. Poroshenko will be the only participant of the conflict with 100% guilt on him.

[lordtiberius]

I agree here, but then if Putin is excluded they will admit that Russia is not involved.
They would confess against themselves. Poroshenko will be the only participant of the conflict with 100% guilt on him.

What planet do you live on, warmonger?

[Boethius]

Of course Russia is involved.  Tanks and other heavy armaments don't appear out of thin air, and need trained operators.


Remember, Doll, according to Putin, there were no troops in Crimea, either.  Then later, there was an admission that there were.

[Doll]

Of course Russia is involved.  Tanks and other heavy armaments don't appear out of thin air, and need trained operators.


Remember, Doll, according to Putin, there were no troops in Crimea, either.  Then later, there was an admission that there were.

I am tired of your "song"- I was just commenting on Medny's post which DOES have sense.

[Boethius]

Whether you are tired of it or not is irrelevant to me.

The "song" is reality.  Tanks and the ability to operate sophisticated machinery does not happen from thin air.


If Russia were not involved, it would not be sitting at the negotiating table.

[Boethius]

One of the clauses in the Minsk Agreement calls for the withdrawal of "all foreign armed formations".  You know, those Russian troops that aren't in Ukraine.

[AkMike]

Full text of new agreements reached in Minsk made public. DOCUMENT


The text of the agreements reached during the negotiations in the "Normandy format" in Minsk has been published online. The document is to be signed by the Tripartite Contact Group on the Donbas.


The document was published by Reuters correspondent Iryna Halushko on her Twitter page, Censor.NET reports.

The agreement consists of 13 items:

1. Immediate and comprehensive cease-fire starting 12:00 a.m. Kyiv time, Feb. 15, 2015.

2. Withdrawal of heavy armament 50-140 km away from the contact line.

3. Cease-fire monitoring by OSCE.

4. Dialogue on holding local elections.

5. Amnesty regarding "the events that took place in specific areas of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions."

6. Release and exchange of hostages in "all-for-all' format.

7. Creation of the conditions for delivery of humanitarian aid.

8. Determination of modalities of restoring economic contacts including social transfers

9. Restoration of full control over the border by the Ukrainian government by the end of 2015 provided the fulfillment of item 11.

10. Withdrawal of all foreign troops from the territory of Ukraine.

11. Constitutional reform aimed at decentralization, and provision of special status to specific areas of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions.

12. Local elections to be discussed and agreed with representatives of specific areas of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions.

13. Intensification of the Tripartite Contact Group activities.Source: http://en.censor.net.ua/p324357

Notes:

Such measures, in accordance with the Law "On the special order of local government in individual areas of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions," include the following:

- Exemption from punishment, harassment and discrimination of persons associated with the events that took place in individual areas of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions;

- The right to self-determination with regard to language;

- Participation of local governments in the appointment of heads of prosecutors’ offices and courts in individual areas of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions;

- The possibility for the central executive authorities to conclude agreements with the relevant local authorities on economic, social and cultural development of individual areas of Donetsk and Luhansk regions;

- The state shall support socio-economic development of individual areas of Donetsk and Luhansk regions;

- Assistance from the central government to cross-border cooperation between the individual areas of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions and regions of the Russian Federation;

- The creation of people's militia units [police] upon the decision of local councils in order to maintain public order in individual areas of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions;

- The powers of local council deputies and other officials elected in snap elections, appointed by the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine according to this law, cannot be terminated.

The document is signed by the members of a Trilateral Contact Group:

[OSCE] Ambassador Heidi Tagliavini

Second President of Ukraine L.D. Kuchma                                     

The Ambassador of the Russian Federation to Ukraine M.Yu. Zurabov

A. V. Zakharchenko

I. V. Plotnitsky
Read more on UNIAN: http://www.unian.info/politics/1043394-minsk-agreement-full-text-in-english.html

[AkMike]

#5 would be a deal breaker for me. What about the MH17 being shot down?
Amnesty for them also?

 First we'll see if they manage to keep their word with a cease fire.

[Hammer2722]

#5 would be a deal breaker for me. What about the MH17 being shot down?
Amnesty for them also?

 First we'll see if they manage to keep their word with a cease fire.

I doubt the cease fire will even start. Just more games being played by Putin. Ukraine will withdraw their heavy artillery, then Putin will start another offensive.

[Brasscasing]

I don't think it'll be implemented to any great degree either.

I believe Merkel and Hollande have in one fell swoop managed to derail the one action capable of saving Ukraine and that was arming her. A consideration that was a year too long in the making and a process which no doubt will again start from scratch when the criminal dictator Putin reneges on this agreement resulting in more innocent casualties and land lost.

However, if there is one small glimmer of light in Merkel's 'peace for our time' document, it's that there's supposed to be a general amnesty of all prisoners which includes Nadiya Savchenko. So, secure the prisoner release quickly Ukraine before the new Russian offensive begins.

Brass

[ML]

Russia will probably say that Nadiya Savchenko isn't included since she was charged with something different . . . I think.

[Brasscasing]

Russia will probably say that Nadiya Savchenko isn't included since she was charged with something different . . . I think.

I hope not. This young woman deserves to be saved.

Brass

[Doll]

I doubt the cease fire will even start. Just more games being played by Putin. Ukraine will withdraw their heavy artillery, then Putin will start another offensive.

No, it will be the opposite

[Изумруд]

If Russia were not involved, it would not be sitting at the negotiating table.

Succinctly written.

One of the clauses in the Minsk Agreement calls for the withdrawal of "all foreign armed formations".  You know, those Russian troops that aren't in Ukraine.

Yes, the ghosts that Zacharchenko himself confessed to.

[Hammer2722]

No, it will be the opposite

Didn't take long for one of Putin's paid trolls to post.LOL
 

[Muzh]

I don't think it'll be implemented to any great degree either.

I believe Merkel and Hollande have in one fell swoop managed to derail the one action capable of saving Ukraine and that was arming her. A consideration that was a year too long in the making and a process which no doubt will again start from scratch when the criminal dictator Putin reneges on this agreement resulting in more innocent casualties and land lost.

However, if there is one small glimmer of light in Merkel's 'peace for our time' document, it's that there's supposed to be a general amnesty of all prisoners which includes Nadiya Savchenko. So, secure the prisoner release quickly Ukraine before the new Russian offensive begins.

Brass

Let's not despair yet.

Although the White House hasn't approved lethal aid, Congress has passed a bill authorizing it, which should help smooth some hurdles. Ukraine also has been accorded the highest priority for a foreign military sales customer, moving them to the front of the line.


That has already resulted in benefits for Kiev.


Kevlar vests headed to Pakistan were diverted to Ukraine, officials said. The U.S. used a contract for allies fighting in Afghanistan to speed up the delivery of radios to Ukraine. And the Pentagon was able to use special presidential drawdown authority to take equipment from its stockpiles to ship counter-mortar radar to Ukraine.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-weapons-to-ukraine-could-take-months-officials-say-1423693717?KEYWORDS=us+weapons+could+take+months

[Doll]

Didn't take long for one of Putin's paid trolls to post.LOL

I  wish.

Vova, will you pay me? Pleaseeeeeeeee

[Doll]

Didn't take long for one of Putin's paid trolls to post.LOL

Speaking of "troll". You can't stand (you- Americans) any opinion different from yours.
Nothing new- country of freedoms

[cc3]

Speaking of "troll". You can't stand (you- Americans) any opinion different from yours.
Nothing new- country of freedoms

A pro-muscovite complains of lack of freedoms in the US? What a joke ...if she had been posting pro-US statements from muscovy, she would be in the FSB torture cellars being re-educated right now.

[AkMike]

Doll,

 Have a bowl of tasty soup and calm down.

[fathertime]

A pro-muscovite complains of lack of freedoms in the US? What a joke ...if she had been posting pro-US statements from muscovy, she would be in the FSB torture cellars being re-educated right now.

You are mistaken. Doll wasn't so much complaining about lack of freedoms.  She was commenting on how twisted out of shape people here get when they read a dissenting voice, which does not make the poster a "a paid Russian troll" although I'm wondering if they lost my address and banking acct number. 

Fathertime!

[calmissile]

Am I the only one that thought it odd that Russia be included in negotiations over a conflict in which they claim not to be involved?

I found that just as out of place with the previous round one. If world leaders really wanted to make a point, they should have excluded Russia on the grounds of taking Russia at her word.

100% agree.  Since Russia has no troops or weapons in Ukraine, they have no business at the bargaining table.
Merkel seems more like a covert agent for Putin.

[Muzh]

You are mistaken. Doll wasn't so much complaining about lack of freedoms.  She was commenting on how twisted out of shape people here get when they read a dissenting voice, which does not make the poster a "a paid Russian troll" although I'm wondering if they lost my address and banking acct number. 

Fathertime!

That's Article One from our Bill of Rights for you and her, baby.