The dumbest sanction ever

[Boethius]

I happen to be left/progressive in my political beliefs.  You, Natural, are not.  But I also have the ability to think independently. 

As I have asked others, please name the "brown shirts" in the Ukrainian government, complete with their "brown shirt" policies.  I  asked a variation of that question of another poster about 2 months ago.  I am still waiting for an answer.  It is not the "brown shirts" who have stated that women should not be in restaurants.  It is not the "brown shirts" that have carried out extra judicial killings, or called for a return of the death penalty.  It is not the "brown shirts" who hold parades of captured prisoners of war.  This is the "freedom" you support.

[The Natural]

I happen to be left/progressive in my political beliefs.  You, Natural, are not.  But I also have the ability to think independently. 

As I have asked others, please name the "brown shirts" in the Ukrainian government, complete with their "brown shirt" policies.  I  asked a variation of that question of another poster about 2 months ago.  I am still waiting for an answer.  It is not the "brown shirts" who have stated that women should not be in restaurants.  It is not the "brown shirts" that have carried out extra judicial killings, or called for a return of the death penalty.  It is not the "brown shirts" who hold parades of captured prisoners of war.  This is the "freedom" you support.

Hahaha, yeah, and the ability to be funny 

Semantics, the Rada might not contain outright nazis, or they have changed their names or whatever, but it is a fact that they accept nazi punishment batallions comitting attrocities in Donbass and I've seen more than one video of nazi youths marching in the streets of Ukraine.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/lrc-blog/arming-kiev-is-arming-neo-nazis/

[Boethius]

You can see Nazi youths marching anywhere in the world.  Including Russia.  Does that mean all these nations are run by Nazis?


So you can't name the "brown shirts" in the Ukrainian government, nor their policies.  Will you admit you have been manipulated by the press you've been reading to take a position that is false?

There are right wing batallions in Donbas, but they are not "Nazis".  They do not receive government funding.  They do commit war crimes, such as taking no prisoners, but they receive exactly the same from your hero terrorists.

And you can laugh, but I do think independently.  The fact I think differently from you does not mean it isn't so.

[The Natural]

No, I have never seen nazi youths marching the streets of western Europe lately. Here, ocassionally a few nazi's march but there is always counter-marches in opposition to them and a police presence. Not in Ukraine.

Listen, I don't thave the time nor the inclination to study the members of the Ukrainian government. Besides, is it controversial as there are valid points both ways, as the very balanced link below shows.

The non-confrontation of neo-nazi elements of Ukrainian officials either suggest they, or some of them, agree with their ideology, or that they are pressured by them. You are also always downplaying what these batallions are doing with claims the other side is just the same.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30414955

[Muzh]

No, I have never seen nazi youths marching the streets of western Europe lately.

Have a party at your house and watch them goose-step to the festivities. 

[Boethius]

No, I have never seen nazi youths marching the streets of western Europe lately. Here, ocassionally a few nazi's march but there is always counter-marches in opposition to them and a police presence. Not in Ukraine.

Listen, I don't thave the time nor the inclination to study the members of the Ukrainian government. Besides, is it controversial as there are valid points both ways, as the very balanced link below shows.

The non-confrontation of neo-nazi elements of Ukrainian officials either suggest they, or some of them, agree with their ideology, or that they are pressured by them. You are also always downplaying what these batallions are doing with claims the other side is just the same.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30414955

No, instead, EU members elect those elements to their parliaments.  Yup, I can definitely see the significant difference.

How many marches have occurred in Ukraine by neo Nazis?  Do you want me to start linking marches across Europe?  Should I start with Anders Behring Breivik?

The fact that the terrorists treat Pravy Sekhtor (who are right wing, but not Nazi) with the same, or even worse contempt, than Pravy Sekhtor treats them, is relevant.  Whether or not you wish to acknowledge it.
 
BTW, your own link refutes your assertion about a Kyiv fascist run government.

[Brasscasing]

Anybody who wears a hair piece like this deserves to be sanctioned...



Brass

[Doll]

Anybody who wears a hair piece like this deserves to be sanctioned...



Brass

Sure, this is what EU thinks

[AC]

Don't worry, I won't lose any sleep over people here disliking sources that goes against their own perceptions of what's going on. A little balance is a good think though. The worst elements here hate balance though, and instead resort to personal insults. You know the type (and I'm not calling you one of these, just to have that said). 

I wonder if this source is good enough for you?  You keep claiming that the government in Kiev is a Nazi junta".  If that was true, I wonder why the largest Jewish center in the World is in Dnepropetrovsk, Ukraine, within the borders of the "regime" and why the Jewish people there are safe?  Why is it that most Jewish people who have left the Donbas area to escape the fighting have gone to Dnepropetrovsk, Ukraine and not Russia? (I've already posted about this before, but it seems that the pro-Putin bunch keeps ignoring the obvious)


excerpt
"These days, signs of Rabbi Levi Yitzchak’s presence can be widely felt. Some 700 children attend Chabad’s Ohr Avner Levi Yitzchak Schneerson Jewish Day School, and its affiliated yeshivah and girl’s school, and his former synagogue on Mironova Street now serves as an orphanage for Jewish boys.

With refugees from the war and violence in eastern Ukraine flooding into Dnepropetrovsk—Donetsk is less than 250 kilometers away—the orphanage is additionally hosting refugee families in its facilities, as are at least three other Jewish communal buildings in the city.

“Over there,” Kaminezki says, pointing to a building visible in another direction, “is the headquarters of the NKVD, where Rabbi Levi Yitzchak was tortured and held after his arrest. Our educational campus, the school,cheder, yeshivah and the machon (center for Jewish learning) for girls is located right near it.”

http://www.jrtelegraph.com/2014/10/amidst-chaos-dnepropetrovsk-stands-as-beacon-of-refuge-in-ukraine.html


comment:  The NKVD was the predecessor to the KGB (under Stalin) and they had a history of torturing and murdering people in Ukraine.

[Brasscasing]

Sure, this is what EU thinks

See the guy in the military choir. He's saying "What the f*ck is that on Koby's head?!?"

And Zakharchenko's saying "I don't know but keep singing."

Brass

[Doll]

 

[The Natural]

How many marches have occurred in Ukraine by neo Nazis?  Do you want me to start linking marches across Europe?  Should I start with Anders Behring Breivik?

The fact that the terrorists treat Pravy Sekhtor (who are right wing, but not Nazi) with the same, or even worse contempt, than Pravy Sekhtor treats them, is relevant.  Whether or not you wish to acknowledge it.
 
BTW, your own link refutes your assertion about a Kyiv fascist run government.

You must have great faith in me if you think I know how many nazi marches there are in Ukraine.
You go right ahead and link whatever you like.
What should you start with Breivik? Did he march? As a matter of fact yes, he marched straight to prison.

You still, even more than the previous post, make up excuses for the nazis in Right Sector and the like.
See that in light with my link that Ukraine indirectly support, like you do, the neo-nazis slaughtering people in Donbass. Your persistent misguided use of the word "terrorists" also makes me take you less serious than I otherwise would.

[Boethius]

What should you start with Breivik? Did he march? As a matter of fact
yes, he marched straight to prison

He didn't march to prison because of his beliefs though, did he?

I am not making excuses.  But you don't get to make blanket statements which are false and have them accepted as fact.  I have asked you to prove your so called "facts".

You can start by demonstrating how Pravij Sektor are neo Nazis.  They claim they do not believe in Nazi ideology.  Being right wing, even extreme right, does not mean one is a Nazi.
 

[Brasscasing]

Hey! It's not my fault Koby's having a bad hair (piece) day.

Brass

[Boethius]

Norway's nazis, The Progress Party, is in the current government coalition. 
 
 

[The Natural]

He didn't march to prison because of his beliefs though, did he?

I am not making excuses.  But you don't get to make blanket statements which are false and have them accepted as fact.  I have asked you to prove your so called "facts".

You can start by demonstrating how Pravij Sektor are neo Nazis.  They claim they do not believe in Nazi ideology.  Being right wing, even extreme right, does not mean one is a Nazi.

Hey girl, you don't get to dictate me how to spend my time documenting things for you. I'm not paid for writing here, maybe you are?

Norway's nazis, The Progress Party, is in the current government coalition. 
 
 

Haha, been busy Googling now? Can't take you seriously. But by all means, do continue. I can always use a cheap laugh.

[Boethius]

Well, no, I don't get to dictate to you.   But I also can't take you seriously, if you post about all these Ukrainain "nazis" ruling the country, yet you can't back it up with actual facts.  All that tells me is that you have been reading sources that conform to the ideas you already hold.

What's so funny?  The party has been described as "nazi". 

[Boethius]

Another neutral source on Maidan -
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/13/ukraine-uprising-fascist-coup-grassroots-movement
 

[Chicagoguy]

I believe Swift will be next. There was a very strong reaction from Putin's group when this was mentioned a few weeks ago. It would really hurt many people and businesses.

Maybe others here can explain better than me what Swift is. My banking days are long behind me.

[AkMike]

SWIFT is the Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication, a member-owned cooperative through which the financial world conducts its business operations with speed, certainty and confidence. More than 10,800 banking organisations, securities institutions and corporate customers in over 200 countries trust us every day to exchange millions of standardised financial messages.


http://www.swift.com/about_swift/index

[ML]

Anytime a person transfers money from one bank account to another bank account (his or someone else's) it goes through the SWIFT system.  Each bank has a SWIFT code that must be shown in the transfer.

It is huge . . . and would cause havoc for the inhabitants of a country that couldn't use it.

Yes, there are other ways like Western Union . . . but none has volume anywhere near the SWIFT system.

[mendeleyev]

Dmitry Kiselyov, indeed.

Free speech has nothing to do with sanctions against him. His position as head of the expanded Russia Today, appointed by President Putin, means as the Kremlin consolidated most media under the RT umbrella last year, he directs most Russian news organizations, and that makes him one of the most powerful individuals in Russia. His sanctions are not new, they've been around since March of last year.

As to his free speech, he practices it quite well. As a supposed "new anchor" he says things like:

Russia is "the only country in the world capable of turning the U.S.A. into radioactive dust."

He hates homosexuals, saying on television during a newscast that, "They should be prohibited from donating blood, sperm."

Again on gays, "their (hearts and organs), in case they die in a car accident, should be buried or burned as unfit for extending anyone's life."

His televised views on Ukraine: “There is no Ukraine. That is only a virtual concept, a virtual country."

[AkMike]

Putler is sticking up for Kobzon!

[Изумруд]

The non-confrontation of neo-nazi elements of Ukrainian officials either suggest they, or some of them, agree with their ideology, or that they are pressured by them. You are also always downplaying what these batallions are doing with claims the other side is just the same.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30414955

Natural, as I promised earlier:  photos of Gubarev in the neo-nazi Russian National unity party.  That is why I believe that article by saker is completely shoddy.  That, or he is being wilfully ignorant of the truth to perpetrate his worldview; that is even worse.

[Anotherkiwi]

The Saker:

http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.no/2015/02/the-dumbest-sanction-ever.html



"Yet again the EU leaders have shown their total lack of common sense combined with a no less total lack of common decency.  That latest sanction is a monument of stupidity at best, and a vicious petty and ugly crime at worst."

Without getting into a debate about the merits (or otherwise) of this particular sanction, I find that the most interesting thing about that article is the comments section.  Not one single comment that I could see (before I stopped in case it caused me to throw up) that bore any resemblance to fact, or even questioning why this particular person had been sanctioned.  Totally uncritical fawning over the author and the article, without the faintest attempt to even ask the question "Why?"  It's as if everyone who commented focused solely on the fact that some ill, old guy now can't travel to the West to seek treatment for his cancer.

Whatever those commenters (and Natural and Doll) may think, his name was NOT plucked out of a hat to be added to the list of proscribed persons.