Ukraine's private "volunteer" militias

[The Natural]

An important article that should raise concerns for anyone concerned about the future of Ukraine (that is, if they're at all able to focus on anything else than infantile Putin bashing):

http://www.vox.com/2015/2/20/8072643/ukraine-volunteer-battalion-danger

[jone]

Natural,

You may want to look at your link once you post it.  In this case, it is a dead address, without beginning or proper ending sequence.  It does not lead to an article as you may think it does.

[lordtiberius]

I think the militias offer not only the best hope for Ukraine, but I believe them to be the next generation of leaders of Europe.

[The Natural]

Natural,

You may want to look at your link once you post it.  In this case, it is a dead address, without beginning or proper ending sequence.  It does not lead to an article as you may think it does.

Thanks Jone. Should work now I think.

[Slumba]

An important article that should raise concerns for anyone concerned about the future of Ukraine (that is, if they're at all able to focus on anything else than infantile Putin bashing):

http://www.vox.com/2015/2/20/8072643/ukraine-volunteer-battalion-danger

They are called "irregular militia" and many such groups fought during the American Revolution.  In fact the Mel Gibson movie "The Patriot", while fictionalized, covers exactly such a group.

Note that the article does not give any estimate of the total size, though it does mention the Dnipro governor/oligarch Kolomoisky and an estimate of 2,000 plus a reserve of 20,000 .

However given that a) he is governor of the region and b) he is the one giving out the cash - would it not make sense to assume that he has full control over them?  But somehow he is ready to go rogue at any moment?

The deputy leader of Azov is the chief of police in Kiev - but somehow he is also ready to go rogue at any moment?

And the leader of Azov, is a member of parliament- I suppose he too, is an outside-the-government rogue?

Just pointing out some logical inconsistencies...

[JayH]

Just pointing out some logical inconsistencies...

Logic and using the word in the same sentence with some people is oxymoron !
 Below--just a brief description of the day for AZOV-who btw were responsible for freeing Mauripol  &  surrounds from the Russian invasion.

"Azov" - Special Purpose Regiment
today at 7:52 pm
Yesterday SHYROKYNE attacked 7 times. Two of them - direct military clash in the streets of the village. Markedly increased aerial reconnaissance "of the NPT." 7:20 - fire with mortars, rocket-propelled grenades and small arms, 8:20 - firing of mortar; 10:00 - shelling out the tank, 10:40 - firing of mortar; 19:00 - in village collision occurred direct combat using firearms, 22:00 - fire with small arms. During the fighting, one soldier was killed and five wounded. Over sektorm "M" fixed activation aerial reconnaissance. Labeled 11 UAV "NPT". # polk_Azov

[sleepycat]

(that is, if they're at all able to focus on anything else than infantile Putin bashing):

Does mongoloid Putin bashing makes you angry?
 

[The Natural]

However given that a) he is governor of the region and b) he is the one giving out the cash - would it not make sense to assume that he has full control over them?  But somehow he is ready to go rogue at any moment?

The deputy leader of Azov is the chief of police in Kiev - but somehow he is also ready to go rogue at any moment?

And the leader of Azov, is a member of parliament- I suppose he too, is an outside-the-government rogue?

Just pointing out some logical inconsistencies...

I don't see the inconsistencies you do. The governement and these private militias has a common enemy at the moment. But what happens Next? Is it unimaginable to think that oligarchs will turn on each other? As you read, they burned tires in the streets of Kiev at the mere mention of disbanding the batallion. They have said "Kiev Next". We will see.
We don't know yet if Porky share the nazi ideology With these groups, or if he's just using their services for the moment. We don't know if he is willing, or politically able, to absorb all the militias into the regular army when the time comes.

Does mongoloid Putin bashing makes you angry?
 

No, it's just pathetic. It's a pitty though, that racists, haters and warmongers such as yourself, frequent a site like this.

[jone]

Does mongoloid Putin bashing makes you angry?
 

Sleepycat,

You may want to change your moniker for the 'Fearless Leader' of Russia.  My take is that some of the gals from Mongolia or that have Mongolian blood in them are the most beautiful on our planet.  We had one staying with us, with her son, last week.  She was outrageously pretty.  A slight Asiatic cast to her green eyes and blondish colored hair makes her stand out in any crowd.

Here is the Wiki definition:

Mongoloid /ˈmɒŋ.ɡə.lɔɪd/ is the general physical type of some or all of the populations of East Asia, Central Asia, Southeast Asia, Eastern Russia, the Arctic, the Americas, parts of the Pacific Islands, and some northeastern parts of South Asia.

Surely you can up with something more creative than how you now call him. 

Hint, hint; 'Fearless Leader'.  (Those not from the United States will have no idea what I am talking about.)

[Faux Pas]

I don't see the inconsistencies you do. The governement and these private militias has a common enemy at the moment. But what happens Next? Is it unimaginable to think that oligarchs will turn on each other? As you read, they burned tires in the streets of Kiev at the mere mention of disbanding the batallion. They have said "Kiev Next". We will see.
We don't know yet if Porky share the nazi ideology With these groups, or if he's just using their services for the moment. We don't know if he is willing, or politically able, to absorb all the militias into the regular army when the time comes.


No, it's just pathetic. It's a pitty though, that racists, haters and warmongers such as yourself, frequent a site like this.

That was an informative story albeit one-sided. Why no mention of the Russian backed rebels? Their funding or organization? Russia is a bigger threat to Ukraine at the moment. Without Russian invading Ukraine there would be no need for such militias thus giving them the power they currently wield. There is much more common ground between these militias than there will be between them and the rebels. Ukraine needs law and order without Putin's influence. The quickest path to that is first remove Putin's influence

[lordtiberius]

Sleepycat,

You may want to change your moniker for the 'Fearless Leader' of Russia.  My take is that some of the gals from Mongolia or that have Mongolian blood in them are the most beautiful on our planet.  We had one staying with us, with her son, last week.  She was outrageously pretty.  A slight Asiatic cast to her green eyes and blondish colored hair makes her stand out in any crowd.

Here is the Wiki definition:

Mongoloid /ˈmɒŋ.ɡə.lɔɪd/ is the general physical type of some or all of the populations of East Asia, Central Asia, Southeast Asia, Eastern Russia, the Arctic, the Americas, parts of the Pacific Islands, and some northeastern parts of South Asia.

Surely you can up with something more creative than how you now call him. 

Hint, hint; 'Fearless Leader'.  (Those not from the United States will have no idea what I am talking about.)

You know there is a difference between a Mongol and a Mongoloid, right?

[mendeleyev]

I admire, respect, and support the Azov units who are fighting. I know a few members personally. Any idea that they are somehow totally comprised of Nazis is pure hogwash. Are all members perfect? No. However, there are perhaps just as many Nazis in the Kremlin when it comes to nationalistic ideology.

Given my long-standing support of the Jewish communities in Russia and Ukraine, I am encouraged that despite propaganda from the Russian fascists, only a tiny number of Ukrainian voters have supported questionable candidates.

(Spelling of Azov corrected)

[Doll]

Azov?

[mendeleyev]

Thank you, Doll. Spelling corrected.

[Изумруд]

I admire, respect, and support the Azov units who are fighting. I know a few members personally. Any idea that they are somehow totally comprised of Nazis is pure hogwash. Are all members perfect? No. However, there are perhaps just as many Nazis in the Kremlin when it comes to nationalistic ideology.

Given my long-standing support of the Jewish communities in Russia and Ukraine, I am encouraged that despite propaganda from the Russian fascists, only a tiny number of Ukrainian voters have supported questionable candidates.

(Spelling of Azov corrected)

I've posted photos of Pavel Gubarev's membership to the neo-nazi group, Russian National Unity, in response to the ridiculous claims of the 'Nazi government' in Kiev; predictably, they're always ignored.  it doesn't fit in with the kremlin propaganda.  Interesting, that it's to Dnipropetrovsk, and not Moscow, that many Jews have fled this conflict; one is even fighting for one of the volunteer batallions.  You'd have thought they'd all have been too terrified to run into the jaws of the Nazi hordes West of Donbass:

Like all conflicts, the one in eastern Ukraine has driven people from their homes. As of mid-February, over a million Ukrainians were refugees within their own country, according to the Internal Displacement Monitoring Centre, which tracks such figures worldwide. Among them, two groups face a particularly complicated life.

One is Crimean Tatars, a Muslim community with a long history of being repressed by Russia. Thousands of them have fled Crimea since Russia annexed it last year. The other is Jews, who have endured their own long history of anti-Semitism in the region, which the conflict with Russia has stirred up again.

Photographer Misha Friedman travelled to Ukraine to visit members of both communities. In this, the first of two stories, he looks at the Jews who have fled to Dnipropetrovsk, roughly 150 miles (240 km) from the rebel-held city of Donetsk. In the next, he profiles the Crimean Tatars who’ve made a home in the western city of Lviv.

http://qz.com/347948/the-ukrainian-city-thats-become-a-haven-for-jews-fleeing-another-european-war/

[Boethius]

It doesn't fit with their preconceived ideas of "nazis" permeating Ukraine (which is false).

[Изумруд]

It doesn't fit with their preconceived ideas of "nazis" permeating Ukraine (which is false).

Of course Boe, and no amount of evidence will change their worldview; It's very blunt but effective propaganda.

[The Natural]

I admire, respect, and support the Azov units who are fighting. I know a few members personally. Any idea that they are somehow totally comprised of Nazis is pure hogwash.

foreignpolicy.com:

"Pro-Russian forces have said they are fighting against Ukrainian nationalists and "fascists" in the conflict, and in the case of Azov and other battalions, these claims are essentially true."

http://foreignpolicy.com/2014/08/30/preparing-for-war-with-ukraines-fascist-defenders-of-freedom/

[Изумруд]

foreignpolicy.com:

"Pro-Russian forces have said they are fighting against Ukrainian nationalists and "fascists" in the conflict, and in the case of Azov and other battalions, these claims are essentially true."

http://foreignpolicy.com/2014/08/30/preparing-for-war-with-ukraines-fascist-defenders-of-freedom/

Did you get a chance to look at thos Gubarev photos yet?  Or read the article of the Jews fleeing Donbass to live in Dnipropetrovsk?  Of course the Pro-Russian forces believe they're fighting Nazis and fascists; they've been indoctrinated with this propaganda for over a year.

[Slumba]

We don't know yet if Porky share the nazi ideology With these groups, or if he's just using their services for the moment. We don't know if he is willing, or politically able, to absorb all the militias into the regular army when the time comes.

Poroshenko the Jewish guy, sharing a nazi ideology?

FWIW Mr. Natural, we chatted I think, on one of the chat apps either here or RUA , I like you and I think if we met in person we would be friendly with each other.  Just because I disagree with you on a subject that neither of us have control over, is no reason for a personal attack.

[jone]

You know there is a difference between a Mongol and a Mongoloid, right?

Did you actually read my post where I quoted from Wiki the definition of Mongoloid.  A Mongol is a person from Mongolia.  A Mongoloid is someone with facial characteristics that are typical of Mongols.  That is the difference.  I take umbridge at any one who uses a representation of a people to insult or make fun of. 

I don't think that Sleepycat meant anything more than disparaging the Russian leader.  His unfortunate choice of semantics created an unintended slur towards those with Mongol features.  It is a common misuse of the term 'Mongoloid'.

[JayH]

Jone-- being pc is the last think on my mind in insulting Putin.

Given Putin & Russia's total disregard for anyone else it highlights the difference in the civilised world's worry about who we are insulting while Russia does not care who it is killing!

[mendeleyev]

Natural, I don't need to sit in an armchair and read what so-called experts think about people I know, know of, and respect. I stand by my statement: Any idea that they are somehow totally comprised of Nazis is pure hogwash.

[The Natural]

FWIW Mr. Natural, we chatted I think, on one of the chat apps either here or RUA , I like you and I think if we met in person we would be friendly with each other.  Just because I disagree with you on a subject that neither of us have control over, is no reason for a personal attack.

Eh, do you feel like I attacked you here? I can't see that, so you must have misunderstood me. I'm sure I would like you too in person, as most here in fact. As I wrote a few months ago, the chat function here, is a much more friendly atmosphere, With only two exceptions in my experience. Exactly what you Write here, that one can disagree and still be on friendly terms. The two unnamed individuals I talk about here, couldn't/can't do that.

Did you get a chance to look at thos Gubarev photos yet?  Or read the article of the Jews fleeing Donbass to live in Dnipropetrovsk?  Of course the Pro-Russian forces believe they're fighting Nazis and fascists; they've been indoctrinated with this propaganda for over a year.

Sorry, I haven't seen Your material. So much to do and so little time.  Will take a quick glance now, even if it's way past bedtime.
I reckon of the 2 million plus refugees from Ukraine to Russia, there's a few jews among them too. By the way, jews are also fleeing from Europe, especially France.

Listen, there IS a nazi or fascist element to the war situation going on in Donbass, which is backed up by the authorities in Kiev. Nobody seems to know the extent of it, certainly nobody here. It is admitted even in mainstream western media, so it's kinda silly to deny it's presence. Maybe I have overemphatized it, I'm not certain. But anti-Russians here are on the other hand grossly undercommunicating it's existence. So there we are, going round in circles....

[sleepycat]

I don't think that Sleepycat meant anything more than disparaging the Russian leader.  His unfortunate choice of semantics created an unintended slur towards those with Mongol features.  It is a common misuse of the term 'Mongoloid'.

The term Mongoloid is also another description of being retarded btw...