Different mentality or is it something else? RW vs. RW.

[Wild Orchid*]

On RWA I mentioned a story which happened to me some time a go. The girl I knew was in love with Russian guy, proposed to him, got knocked back. She was devastated and I suggested we’d look for men somewhere else and we did. She came to Au, made her fiancée to marry her as soon as she could (claiming that she was a virgin at the age of 27 and refusing to have sex before the wedding day), and leaving him as soon as she go her temporary 2 years visa. She made him to go through the court accusing him of DV, her claim was dismissed. While she was here and I was still waiting for my visa in Russia, she was badmouthing my fiancée and trying to convince me that I’d make huge mistake if I came – according to her my man was very poor, she could see it from there, he’d make me work very hard, etc… Nothing was true. When I arrived, messages were sent to my husband, implying that I couldn’t be trusted; I was sleeping around, etc.. In other words she was trying her hardest to prevent me from staying here. Eventually they got divorced. She got her citizenship much faster than the rest of us. Talking to people I knew, I found out that as soon as she got her papers she went back to Russia and married her ex and was in process of brining him as her spouse. All that time while she was waiting for her visa I suspected she continued her relationship with ex, I never said anything not to her fiancée, not to mine, and when all the hell broke out I felt very guilty about it, knowing though that even if I said something her husband wouldn’t believe me, he was very much in love. I wrote to immigration and told them about my suspicions in regards of her Russian husband.

Now… I mentioned this story on RWA, where a lot of you wives are members, and was quite surprised by response. Women obviously are angry with me, they are saying that I betrayed my friend (I don’t think she ever was my friend), that I’m a dobber and should be ashamed of myself. Emotions were very hot during that discussion, but imagine my shock when it was drugged out during absolutely unrelated conversation as indication of my character. I stuck with the label of horrible person who can’t be trusted, not that I care much about their opinion…

I’d like to hear your opinion on that. Do you think I was wrong to write to immigration?  And what about women’s reaction to all of that on RWA? I can’t help myself but think that it could be your wives who think that it’s OK to trick man into marriage and use him for brining other man into the country.

[PeeWee]

I think that you should have shot your friend thus putting her out of her misery. What a pathetic excuse for a human she seems to be.

peewee

[Daknack]

I think you deserve a medal

[Wild Orchid*]

Oops

[Jet]

Wild Orchid,
I used to read a bit at RWA and when my wife arrived I showed it to her as well.
She had the same impressions I did:
20% are decent women who just like to discuss things
40% are incredibly self-important women who are generally married to gazillionaires
40% are looking for the fast way to a new life no matter who they step on.
My wife's remark after browsing the site the first time was:
These people are not for me.
She's not been back since.

From reading your posts here, you strike me as someone who is very much like my wife (and that's a good thing!) so why so upset that you don't have the approval of women whom 8 out of 10 you would never consider associating with in real life? You did the right thing - be proud of that  and don't lose too much sleep over the fact that people of low morals don't like it so much.

[Wild Orchid*]

Wild Orchid,
I used to read a bit at RWA and when my wife arrived I showed it to her as well.
She had the same impressions I did:
20% are decent women who just like to discuss things
40% are incredibly self-important women who are generally married to gazillionaires
40% are looking for the fast way to a new life no matter who they step on.
My wife's remark after browsing the site the first time was:
These people are not for me.
She's not been back since.

From reading your posts here, you strike me as someone who is very much like my wife (and that's a good thing!) so why so upset that you don't have the approval of women whom 8 out of 10 you would never consider associating with in real life? You did the right thing - be proud of that  and don't lose too much sleep over the fact that people of low morals don't like it so much.

Thanks. I really needed this.

[Rvrwind]

Wild Orchid...I second Jet on this. Your so-called friend is not your friend. She is a user & abuser!!!
I have never read RWA & have no desire to, but judging by what I have been told by others it is not the type of crowd I would associate with. Women like your ex-friend who use & abuse the men & the system are the reason this endeavour has become so difficult & why men & women find it so hard to trust each other.
Consol yourself with the fact that you did the right thing. This women should not be permitted to bring her Russian husband over & thereby forcing her if she wishes to remain with him to return. They are both lowlifes who used another person to achieve their own ends not once feeling any remorse for what they have done. People of this nature are abundant, unfortunately, & for people like us who walk a straight line, well we are a threat to their exsistance.
I have found myself in the same position on several occaisions, but you know what, I can sleep easy knowing my concience is clear.
Congrats for having the courage to do what many would not.

[PeeWee]

Who was it who had incorrectly stated that this forum was "...not a support group."?  WO, it seems that your loyal and sensative nature, both wonderful traits, has really conflicted you about this. The woman that you tell about was that same scammer that we are warned to avoid. How could your honest mind standby and watch it happen? Your good heart told your brain what needed to be said.

Peewee

[Muj]

WO you saw a serious crime and acted as a good person.  Only if the husband had known of the woman prior.  Obviously he was naive to believe her lie of virginity and needed some wise input. 

[Wild Orchid*]

This women should not be permitted to bring her Russian husband over & thereby forcing her if she wishes to remain with him to return.

I think the same. Out of curiosity I punched their names into immigration site and had a chance to read the letter of rejection. His application (second btw) was refused without right of reapplying. My name never was mentioned in that decision, though I wasn’t anonymous and wasn’t trying to hide. I don’t know, if my letter contributed to this decision or not, I never felt guilty about that, quite contrary I thought I owed it to her Au ex-husband. 
I was simply shocked by women’s reaction on RWA but thinking about those silly and unfair comments they made…. It’s not my problem that they feel that way, really..

[PeeWee]

I think the same. Out of curiosity I punched their names into immigration site and had a chance to read the letter of rejection. His application (second btw) was refused without right of reapplying. My name never was mentioned in that decision, though I wasn’t anonymous and wasn’t trying to hide. I don’t know, if my letter contributed to this decision or not, I never felt guilty about that, quite contrary I thought I owed it to her Au ex-husband. 
I was simply shocked by women’s reaction on RWA but thinking about those silly and unfair comments they made…. It’s not my problem that they feel that way, really..

If there is a system in place that was designed to weedout those less desirable then the system worked.

Peewee

[Jet]

It’s not my problem that they feel that way, really..

ABSOLUTELY! 

[Maxx2]

Wild Orchid,
I used to read a bit at RWA and when my wife arrived I showed it to her as well.
She had the same impressions I did:
20% are decent women who just like to discuss things
40% are incredibly self-important women who are generally married to gazillionaires
40% are looking for the fast way to a new life no matter who they step on.

I am wondered when reading this if this is a good representative sample of RW? 40% are bad, 40% are demanding, arrogant and high maintanance and 20% are good wives?

Wild Orchid, I am one of those men who had his Russian wife do to him what was done to your friend. When she came to me she came with a stack of wedding and honeymoon photos of of her and her previous husband. Last I heard she was in friendly contact with her former mother-in-law. Of course there were false DV charges etc. after I filed for divorce. Her pathway to US citizenship will be much smoother that Jet's wife as example. I figure she has just another year to go. So I know what he must being feeling. Let me tell you something. When all this was happening to me I was in desperate need for the kindness and understanding of others. To me this showed that they believed me and not her. Do you know who's opinion mattered the most to me? Other Russian women. A good Russian woman standing up against a bad one means allot to a guy at these times. For some of us there has been some real standup Russian women. It was Donna Pedro for me, M&M for Paul and Elena Garrett for many others. So when I hear of Russian women  who help out a guy like you did I hold them in my highest regard. You are in the league of the very best in that 20% Jet quoted.

Maxx

[Wild Orchid*]

Maxx, I’ve read you story on RWG. Thank you for your post.

[Son of Clyde]

This can happen in different ways among American women.

Your friend is just a liar and not your friend. My psychology professor once said that some people are born without a conscience, they do not know right from wrong. In the business world these people move up the corporate ladder by stepping on anyone who gets in their way. Your so called friend seems to have this trait.

How can anyone abuse a person who is kind to them and sacrifices their freedom for them? A single man or woman does not have to answer to anyone but when they marry life becomes quite different. You have an obligation to your spouse. You sacrifice some freedom for a happy life with a person you love and care for. Your friend seems like a worthless excuse for a human being. She was abusive to her spouse and to you, her friend. All for a green card?

Does growing up under a communist regime (if you are old enough) harden a person this much?

[Rvrwind]

Does growing up under a communist regime (if you are old enough) harden a person this much?

I'm assuming this is a retorical question Clyde.
If you have spent enough time in this country you would know the answer is a deffinite, yes. They have very little regard for human life (look at the way they drive, pedestrian beware!!!), they have very little regard for employees (how long do you think your boss would get away without paying you?), & basic human rights are pretty much non-existant (try finding a labor board or a welfare office or uneployment insurance office). Yes I would say communism hardens ones outlook & enables them to put more into me, me, me, rather than us.
Even those who did not grow up under direct communist rule see the way those who did are & tend to follow in there footsteps. They have a long way to go before they will ever be equal in many areas to the west (customer service for example), but eventually after a generation or two hopefully things may change.

[Wild Orchid*]

I'm assuming this is a retorical question Clyde.
If you have spent enough time in this country you would know the answer is a deffinite, yes. They have very little regard for human life (look at the way they drive, pedestrian beware!!!), they have very little regard for employees (how long do you think your boss would get away without paying you?), & basic human rights are pretty much non-existant (try finding a labor board or a welfare office or uneployment insurance office). Yes I would say communism hardens ones outlook & enables them to put more into me, me, me, rather than us.
Even those who did not grow up under direct communist rule see the way those who did are & tend to follow in there footsteps. They have a long way to go before they will ever be equal in many areas to the west (customer service for example), but eventually after a generation or two hopefully things may change.

I think it is much worse now than it used to be under so called communist regime. Back then it was a lot about US, people were helping each other, now it is absolutely different. I wouldn't want to grow up in modern Russia. In USSSR they had Workers Unions, they had some sort of protection from the bosses, and bosses were not bosses-owners, they were bosses-leaders. Now it is all about money and nothing else. Nobody has any pride in the work they are doing, all they care about - profit. So I wouldn't blame communists for the heartless Russia it became now.

[Rvrwind]

Good Point WO, I stand corrected.

[BradSTL]

Now it is all about money and nothing else. Nobody has any pride in the work they are doing, all they care about - profit. So I wouldn't blame communists for the heartless Russia it became now.

WO... this part of your post made me chuckle a little bit.  I did not know much about the USSR until I reached 9th grade (9th form), when I was 14-15.  Communists, and their propaganda, constantly criticized Americans for being "money mad" (kind of the term for the moment).  Soooo... its a little funny to see the same conditions happening in Russia .  Lenin has got to be turning over in that glass coffin.  Anyway, with time and experience--- these things sort themselves out.

[BradSTL]

My psychology professor once said that some people are born without a conscience, they do not know right from wrong. In the business world these people move up the corporate ladder by stepping on anyone who gets in their way.

Yeah Clyde--- know this kind of critter all too well.  They *appear* to be successful, but, they have burned bridges all the way to the top.   Then, in a moment when they really need help, there ain't no one around to help them.  There is a perfect catch-all phrase in America for this situation (among men), it goes, "the lights come on and you are the only one with your d**k in your hand".

[PeeWee]

My psychology professor once said that some people are born without a conscience, they do not know right from wrong. In the business world these people move up the corporate ladder by stepping on anyone who gets in their way.

Hmmmmm.  Ah...kind of like Ken Lay?

Peewee

[Wild Orchid*]

WO... this part of your post made me chuckle a little bit.  I did not know much about the USSR until I reached 9th grade (9th form), when I was 14-15.  Communists, and their propaganda, constantly criticized Americans for being "money mad" (kind of the term for the moment).  Soooo... its a little funny to see the same conditions happening in Russia .  Lenin has got to be turning over in that glass coffin.  Anyway, with time and experience--- these things sort themselves out.

Sometimes it is just sad and nothing else. I used to work in Law College, where students had to pay for half a year upfront. On 2 occasions student was murdered in the beginning of the term, and my boss was refusing to give money back though no service was provided. When it happend for the first time, I was the one talking to the family and sure I said "You'll get your money back". How stupid of me!!! I put myself in so much trouble! According to my ex-boss it was none of my business. Later on she had huge argument with the family about the money. I was disgusted with her, but next time around I was smarter...Still.. This time the boy (18 y.o.) went missing in the beginning of the winter and my boss wouldn't pay family back till  his body was discovered after all snow melted away. How could she look in his mama's eyes and say that she can't return the money because she is not sure if he was really dead? Was she like that before she became rich?

[milestogo]

WO, thanks for being one of the good ones!!  I would love to know more about how stuff like this can actually happen.  I understand there are people who are so cold and heartless but it fascinates me how this can happen to men.  I'm not saying anything bad about them but in each case there must be huge ignored red flags.  Virgin at 27 w/no sex before marriage for instance???  It must be exceedingly difficult to credibly fake being in love with someone.  Why do men miss all of the red flags that I have to think would be unavoidable in such an arrangement?

I've spent a lot of time thinking about this and considering what Maxx (a hero) and you (deserve a medal) do for people.  Keep doing it.  We should all support Maxx's site when it gets up and running.

[Wild Orchid*]

I visit Russian forum for people living in Au, men on this forum call foreign men who married or want to marry woman from FSU kabanchik - little boar. Woman is a hunter of course. She hunts them, get one in the corner and then... you can imagine what can happen when he is in the corner. unfortunately for us we all considered to be a boar hunters. But you are right sometimes there are red flags and sometimes they are so obvious it is hard not to notice. Maxx won't like it, but I came to conclusion that some men want to be a boar. That friend of mine for instance. He was calling her late at night (11 p.m.) and quite often she wasn't home (was at the boyfriend's place), not once he asked her where she was at that time of the night. There were many examples like that. I don't know, may be he wasn't experienced enough, he was only 29 when they got married.

[milestogo]

How disgusting these woman and their characterizations of men as little boars.  However, I tend to agree with you about the men.  I just spoke to Don about this.  It's no different than any decision in life where judgement causes some to suceed and  not to.  However, I only feel bad for these men and will not call them foolish since they are only following their hearts even when they make poor judgements.