Ukraine v Russia Travel

[Bruno]

Some of us seem to prefer Ukraine and others Russia. Why is that?

Ukraine have a very big advantage on Russia... Ukraine is visa free... "take the next plane and go" is something possible !

[chivo]

It is not a "big" advantage. its a very minor technicality. maybe from a first timer coming it seems easier, but really there is no difference in going to Ukraine than Russia, other than more desperation from the women.

Chivo

[Ste]

Been reading about the EU and Russian working toward visa free travel by Jan 2007, all agreed waiting to be signed but guess what? Putin is stalling for fear of Russia being overrun by immigrants!

Fukin 'ell like is this guy for real? Imagine all us Europeans off to work illegally in Russia for crap money and lower standard of living. I love Russia and the Russian people but I fear they are deluded somewhat about the desirabilty of their Country to others....

Ste

 

[chivo]

Ste,

Moscow is overrun with illegals, albeit most from the Caucasus.

I'm sure there always is political posturing involving the Russians dealing with the west which has less to do with worries about anyone actually coming here from that part of the world, and more to do with its ever increasing desire to return to the status of "super" power and flexing its muscles.

Anyone from the west can come here and work for more money than the locals make (i do for instance) with or without having to deal with any restrictions concerning visas or anything else. also my standard of living is not as bad as you think. maybe we all still live under the impression that things are not improving here. i can assure you that, especially in Moscow, life is much better than you think, and we dont live in desparation. also im sure my "standard" of living is better than many parts of Europe.

not to give away all my secrets but the fact is i can start a business much easier here with less competition than in the west, not to mention with more available start up capital than the locals. theres more than meets the eye obviously than you can see from your vantage point.

yes Russia is Russia, but a corner has been turned and the light at the end of the tunnel has changed from the oncoming train to hope.

that being said, yes youre right, i dont see a mass exodus eastward from Europe, and quite frankly, i couldnt be more pleased. good luck.

Dan

[chivo]

Freebird,

i know youre one of the experienced travellers to this part of the world. sorry to hear about your situation, but as youre well aware, theres always tomorrow and now that youre here at least you can see what youre dealing with face to face.

good luck in Kharkov, but beware the scammer there as you know. not much advice as you know what to expect, just well wishes, good luck.

Chivo

[wiz]

It is not a "big" advantage. its a very minor technicality. maybe from a first timer coming it seems easier, but really there is no difference in going to Ukraine than Russia, other than more desperation from the women.

Chivo

Chivo

We have already spoke about the Visa requirement and is not a minor technicality as you say.
As Peewee said is exactly like that, "Take the next flight and go to Kiev and that is what I am doing Tomorrow. Just booked my flight and a flat and tomorrow at 14.30 will be in Kiev, meeting a hot lady for the weekend. Monday morning I am back to work at 10.30 local here.

I have just been talking to a woman from St Petersburg for sometime now and soon I have to visit her but before I do that I have to arrange for a letter of invitation, via the Internet, pay by Credit Card  to an agency I don't know off, 40 Dollars and then Go to London, Visit the Russian Consulate pay 235 dollars to get the visa on the same day, or pay 120 and wait 12 days and then go back to London to collect it.

Before I forget the Que out side the Consulate is from here to Moscow and you have to be there at 6 am to have any chance getting in at 10 AM. They are open only between 10 AM - 12.30 PM.

So 2 days out of the office and some over nearly 200 dollars for the 10 day waiting Visa is a minor technicality? I don't think so!

That is a huge advantage of Ukraine over Russia, like it or not, especially for single men looking for women in the FSU countries and also for businessmen who want to pop over for a couple of days.

Freebird

Women in Ukraine do not have digital cameras and they have to go and pay a professional photographer to make their photos and all of them they have very sexy looking photos.

I don't know how old are you and what age woman you are looking to find.

I know a woman in Zap, 45 years old, no children, well educated, working in a scientific position, clever, frugal, thoughtful caring and Loyal, which I met before 3 times. Unfortunately she is on the quiet side, the opposite of my character, so she is not my type but she speaks adequate English and for her character I can assure you is excellent.

She is not an oil painting or a sex bombshell but still attractive. I have many REAL photos of her and she will make a good wife.

If you want send me a private message and I will send you her photos.

Peewee

Ukrainian women are more sophisticated when it comes to dressing up and looking after themselves. Walk down the Maidan square in Kiev and you will think you are in a Christmas tree or a Toy R us shop. Quality in Huge quantities. You be spoiled for choice.

STE

Putin is stalling because he is afraid of all the best assets of his country, the WOMEN who hold that society together, will move out in 1000,s and create a huge problem there.

The woman from ST Petersburg that I am talking to, is got her own flat in the centre of the town, gets a very good salary allowing to travel abroad many times but still wants to move out. So I wonder why?

Something is not right in Russian life, obviously.

Do you know what she ask me right at the start of our first telephone conversation?

How much do you like to drink?

She was surprised and did not believe me when I told her that I do not drink but only socially a couple of wine glasses over dinner. So she asked me again.

I think that is a small indication of life there.

[Ste]

Chivo (Dan)

I belive when u say Moscow life is good, and I have seen it for myself. Same in the gf's city, life is good, not lavish but without the pressures we have here. I've seen the Chinese and the Gypies too.

Just so you know I appreciate Russia isn't all doom and gloom!

Ste

[chivo]

Wiz,

if you just book yourself a ticket to Ukraine and a hotel IMO, youre doing yourself an injustice. anyone who thinks that coming to the Ukraine is just a matter of hopping on a plane and bingo, there you are, isnt doing his homework.

that you have problems means, well, you have problems. ive never experienced any hassles with a visa other than the time i overstayed one.

the fact that you can just get on an airplane means youre not so concerned about money. in that case all that you said you had to do in London, i did it Los Angeles without ever visting anyone or doing anything but letting trusted people handle it for a few bucks more, and never even leaving my house. again, maybe you just dont know who to deal with.

in order to get the best prices for airfare and assure that a flat is available at the best time you should do this a few weeks in advance, which makes the timeframe irrelevant. going to the Ukraine is not like going to vegas, and even going to vegas, i plan ahead. for anyone to come here, especially from the states would be absolutely foolish not to plan ahead of time, visa or no visa.

that being the case, i find the visa process to be the least of my worries when i was headed this way.

look im not stupid, i understand that not having to deal with a visa is less of a hassle than dealing with it. but being a "big" problem is just a myth, plain and simple.

Chivo

[BC]

I just send my passport off to an agent in Rome that takes care of the visa. Costs a few extra bucks but beats standing in line and taking time off from work.

[Bruno]

the fact that you can just get on an airplane means youre not so concerned about money. in that case all that you said you had to do in London, i did it Los Angeles without ever visting anyone or doing anything but letting trusted people handle it for a few bucks more, and never even leaving my house. again, maybe you just dont know who to deal with.

in order to get the best prices for airfare and assure that a flat is available at the best time you should do this a few weeks in advance, which makes the timeframe irrelevant. going to the Ukraine is not like going to vegas, and even going to vegas, i plan ahead. for anyone to come here, especially from the states would be absolutely foolish not to plan ahead of time, visa or no visa.

I am concerned by money... visa cost some money and ask time to go at the embassy... i don't know in US but here, for a Russian visa, you need to apply and sign a form yourself at the embassy. They can send the visa and passport to your home but at 20 euro for a stamp, it is a little expense.

Second problem, the stay... i always use apartment from local real-estate agency, the one without internet  site... the internet site charge you for one day what i pay for one month... problem is that these agency don't make the needed "invitation" for receive the visa.

Go to Russia the first time mean use of tourist tour, who mean big money... later, if you was successful in your quest, your girlfriend can send you a invitation... she only need wait a lot of hour in the cold for make it at Russian administration !!!

The expense of my last trip in Ukraine was 393.34 euro for airfare ( trip and tax ), 200 euro for one month studio, 100 euro for birthday present of girl, 500 euro for the stay of 3 week... total of 1200 euro for 3 week all in...

For a same trip to Russia, the 200 euro for studio are changed to 35 euro day + 20 euro invitation ( total 720 euro ), add around 75 euro visa + 20 euro send passport home + railroad price to go at embassy 20 euro ( and one day holiday loose )...

Ukraine : 1200 for 3 week / Russia : 1835 for 3 week = difference of 53%... i am not greedy but 53% of difference for the same thing is huge... Of course for our American people, the airfare is a big part of the trip, your are not lucky like us, European... so the % will be lower.

[chivo]

BC.

of course. not to mention a little thing called a business visa thats good for a year for a little more money thats needs no registration here as well for the "business man" who wants to hop over for 3 days or less.

another thing Wiz, that you met one woman who ask this question hardly makes it an across the board situation. maybe something is wrong with the woman. for one she has no man.

if anyone (Russian) has a problem here it might be more about human right issues than anything else. Russia has its problems but compared to lets say Ukraine, please!!!!! Russia is heaven. for you to call out Russia and speak about Ukraine as better tells me how little you know about the FSU.

ive meet hundreds of people who like it here just fine, many who have been all over the world including the USA and England. they and many others have no intention of leaving as many outsiders think.

yes i know that others are hell bent to leave, but the reasons are more complex than any of us can understand. many are hell bent to leave romania, czech republic, bulgaria, etc. too, just check the green card lottery. what does it all mean...who knows for sure, a better life we can assume, but i still think the reasons go deeper.

Ste,

its all good bro, keep on keeping on.

Bruno,

i understand that money is important. i get my visa done in the EU. i cant imagine it being more difficult in Belgium. it requires a invitation that is part of the visa process when you use a service. they will provide you with the invitation that is included in their service. my biggest problem is that i have to leave Russia to renew it. i have different rules to deal with from where i am.

im not sure what city in Ukraine you went to but i hope youre comparing apples to apples. for instance, if you stay in a city outside Kiev it will be cheaper as is staying outside Moscow or Piter. if youre trying to tell me that kiev will cost 200 euro for a month, please let me know where i can get this rate. i stayed a month in three cities outside Moscow and they cost me $90usd, $120 usd and $300 for and upscale apt in Kazan. excluding my airfare my costs for a month in Russia was easily on par, actually less than what you quoted which covers the difference for the visa.

again the visa can be had for a year multi entry done by very reputable people for $500-600, with no problem, even in your country if you know what youre doing. even if you go the tourist visa route everything youre talking about was never a problem, and shouldnt be. invitation, registration easy as pie at about $200 a pop.

now if youre in the habit of visiting the FSU to find a lady multiple visits should be a must. say you come 3 times, hardly out of the ordinary, especially for someone from Europe, your average cost for the visa is around $200 per visit. if youre that strapped for cash, maybe you should look elsewhere for a woman. all other costs are relative being in Ukraine or Russia.

also if you ever want to come to Russia i can assure you that any "tour" you speak of wont be necessary. im not sure what it is exactly, but ive never had to deal with this and i travelled to Russia 8 times before i moved here. again being from an EU country such as yourself, i find it extremely hard to believe its much different than what i went through.

again, its not a "big" problem. thats its more involved than Ukraine is one thing, difficult...hardly.

my concern for you is that you find better contacts which to do business with in Russia before you head this way. well except for Ukraine, you seemed to have found what youre looking for there. good luck.

Chivo

[Bruno]

im not sure what city in Ukraine you went to but i hope youre comparing apples to apples. for instance, if you stay in a city outside Kiev it will be cheaper as is staying outside Moscow or Piter. if youre trying to tell me that kiev will cost 200 euro for a month, please let me know where i can get this rate. i stayed a month in three cities outside Moscow and they cost me $90usd, $120 usd and $300 for and upscale apt in Kazan. excluding my airfare my costs for a month in Russia was easily on par, actually less than what you quoted which covers the difference for the visa.

In 1996, i have make one trip to Moscow, very cheap but a real hell... Trip with bus ( 4 day ) and stay in cheap hotel that same Russian have find bad.

Between 1997 and 2003,  i have go each year to Russia, Liptesk, city of my ex russian wife. First time with appartment and the other with invitation of family...

In 2004, i have visit St-Petersburg with a tour operator... Tourist trip and the more expensive. Very interesting city, better that Moscow in my taste.

In 2005, i was in Ukraine, Nikolaev... Appartment at 180$ month.

Last trip in May 2006, Ukraine Odessa, studio at 200 euro.

Before 1996, several trip to Moldova, Belarus, Poland, etc ... but all was pay by the work... and no problem with visa since it was a military passport and collaboration with CIS army.

For people without experience, travel agency are a must... but later, learn to organize your trip yourself... ask a little homework but spare a few $$$ who will be welcome for the familly of your bride/wife.

[PeeWee]

Been reading about the EU and Russian working toward visa free travel by Jan 2007, all agreed waiting to be signed but guess what? Putin is stalling for fear of Russia being overrun by immigrants!

Fukin 'ell like is this guy for real? Imagine all us Europeans off to work illegally in Russia for crap money and lower standard of living. I love Russia and the Russian people but I fear they are deluded somewhat about the desirabilty of their Country to others....

Ste


 

Worried about Russia being over run by immigrants. What a two faced A-hole Putin is. First he begins whinning about how mother Russia is losing 700,000 souls to emigration and that RW need to crank out more babies because actually he needs a bigger army. Now he is whinning about all of the people who will now come to Russia because of a more laxed immigration law? Daaaah! Vladimir, you just got your 700,000 souls back. No need to turn on the baby machine now! Unless Putin is a racist, which he might be because he wants only Russians to populate Russia, then what is his big two faced complaint?

Peewee
 

[wiz]

Wiz,

if you just book yourself a ticket to Ukraine and a hotel IMO, youre doing yourself an injustice. anyone who thinks that coming to the Ukraine is just a matter of hopping on a plane and bingo, there you are, isnt doing his homework.

that you have problems means, well, you have problems. ive never experienced any hassles with a visa other than the time i overstayed one.

the fact that you can just get on an airplane means youre not so concerned about money. in that case all that you said you had to do in London, i did it Los Angeles without ever visting anyone or doing anything but letting trusted people handle it for a few bucks more, and never even leaving my house. again, maybe you just dont know who to deal with.

in order to get the best prices for airfare and assure that a flat is available at the best time you should do this a few weeks in advance, which makes the timeframe irrelevant. going to the Ukraine is not like going to vegas, and even going to vegas, i plan ahead. for anyone to come here, especially from the states would be absolutely foolish not to plan ahead of time, visa or no visa.

that being the case, i find the visa process to be the least of my worries when i was headed this way.

look im not stupid, i understand that not having to deal with a visa is less of a hassle than dealing with it. but being a "big" problem is just a myth, plain and simple.

Chivo

Dear Chivo

I am sorry that you do not understand the fact of less "hassle" and cheaper costs, is the difference that makes traveling to Ukraine at a drop of a hat a better option!

Additionally you make some more wrong assumptions about my finances, and speed in making my arrangements. Of course money is a large consideration on my part and to may other people and I do not spent it unnecessary. I have better use for it!

I am sure you have not read my post: Finding an Honest woman in Ukraine, so I better let you know a few truths.

When I decide to visit Ukraine to meet a woman, is after I have prepared my ground for a long time, like 2-3 months and when I think time has arrived to meet, if she sounds what I look for THEN I go to Ukraine.

The woman I am meeting tomorrow, I have been in touch with her since last March and have exchanged nearly daily e-mails, spoke on the phone several times and received many photos. So it is not a last minute decision.

If it was sex that I was after, with the money I am spending I could have one of the best looking Ukrainian escorts in London.

I am not sure if you know but I am in the travel business, organizing and selling holidays to Ukraine and Greece for UK clients.

The airlines offer a huge discount, called AD75 (75% Discount) to Travel agents so my ticket to Kiev just cost me 104.60 GBP = 193 US dollars.

Apartment accommodation is booked by my agent in Kyiv and they only charge me a Nominal fee of 30 dollars a day.

Transfer from Boryspil airport organized by my agent for 20 Dollars one way.

Total trip cost: 293 USD. and that is tax deductible for my company.

If say a client contacts me and want to go is 24 hours I still can book everything for him at the normal rates.

So where is the HASLLE in Ukraine? Client pays his money and go.

Ticket cost to Ukraine is 212 BGP and an apartment in centre of Kyiv 50 -60 Dollars a night and meeting and greeting the client is 30 dollars each way. Our Agent speaks perfect English, so for 30 dollars he gets also a translator for his arrival and departure.

Now when time will come to Visit St Petersburg if everything seem ok with the woman I am corresponding then:

Flight on Luftanhansa costs around 380 GBP, any cheap hotel say 70-100 dollars a night, say 5 nights and already I am over 1000 dollars.

I am not adding the costs and hassle in getting a Visa.

Do you see any comparison in favour of Russia?

I don’t!

Anyway in my view Ukrainian women are much smarter in dressing up.

The woman in St, Pts is of Ukrainian origins…….

I bow to your superior knowledge of Russia but from a western perspective Ukraine is a better and easier prospect to travel.

I said before that I have visited St. Pts without spending huge money, because of my contacts but for normal clients is not the same.

I will not get involved in the politics that you try to drive the message on this thread, because I will be kicked off by Dan.

All I have to tell you Russia is not the paradise or better prospect that you try to paint for one single reason.

Living conditions for an ordinary Russian are difficult if not terrible and the financial benefits from the natural resources have not filtered down to the masses, for the reasons we all know, that is why so many people want to get out, according to Mr Putin’s figures.

All these millionaires created there are living here in London now, so they must know something more than me!

[Bruce]

Pee Wee - Putin is not racist, he wants more Russians in Russia, plain and simple - hence the expression of an attempt to increase the countries birth rate.  Illegal immigration from the South (former Stan Republics etc. ) is a huge problem in Russia. 

You all should listen very closely to Chivo, the man is on the ground and knows what he is talking about. 

For my late June trip I'll soon take a "trip"  to my travel agency so for me the hasstle is the trip to and from the travel agency to drop off and pick up my passport, the fee of about $200 these days as well as to pay a local hotel to register me for the time of my stay once I reach my wife's home city. 

Ukraine and Russia were extremely similar in my experience, though I only went to the two biggest cities in Ukraine (Kiev and Kharkov).  I always liken Russia vs Ukraine to Bud and Bud light or Coke and Coke Light.  Its the real thing - thats in part why I chose Russia for all future trips after visiting both countries a few times by 2002.  My biggest reason was that I just came to the conclusion that Ukraine had more scamming women - based upon my personal experience and those that I read on chat boards since 1999.  I figured the odds of finding a sincere women were highest in Russia - and it worked for me (though plenty have found great wives in Ukraine).  Since then I've been to Russia 13 times, with # 14 coming this summer. 

However, there are logistical advantages when travelling within Ukraine over Russia ie. distances due to country size is comparatively minimized.  Girls are beautiful in both countries.  Girls tend to be a bit darker over all in Ukraine, but there are plenty of blonds in Ukraine and plenty of brunettes in Russia.  I see no difference in make up ie. when girls go out in both countries they do their best to look their best.  I felt Ukraine was a little less expensive than Russia, but if you go to smaller cities in Russia costs go way down.  Moscow is just downright expensive, St. Petersburg is expensive, Sochi is expensive, though Kiev was / is close behind Moscow and St. Pete.  Kharkov was a bargain to the three big cities above and Tver is comparable in prices with Kharkov - which is comparable with Novosibirsk - so it boils down to where you go within each country.

[dorogoyroberto]

It is not a "big" advantage. its a very minor technicality. maybe from a first timer coming it seems easier, but really there is no difference in going to Ukraine than Russia, other than more desperation from the women.

Chivo

And you base this opinion on...?

Roberto
Kiev, Ukraine

[chivo]

Wiz,

are you stupid?

my point was back when you made your first comment and now is that the process of getting a visa is nothing. this is about expanding the playing field, thats all its ever been about. that you say its a big hassell to someone who doesnt understand might scare a person away from a great hunting ground for a lucky few. its just isnt so. a visa is so minimum compared to what you will dealing with later and if a visa is the difference from opening up yourself to this part of the world, then get out now because you have absolutely no chance pulling off getting a woman from here. 

that you PERSONALLY have an unique situation in which you can get bargain travel arrangements doesnt mean the rest of the people can. unless that is what youre offering to everyone. that Ukraine is more of a bargain is great for you. and anyone who is interested in heading to Ukraine is more than welcome to join you.

its a number game.

i make no assumption at all about your finances at all, where do you get this? i talked about cost of travel with no reference to you.

as was said effectively by Bruce, among his other solid takes on things, is there is very little difference with the women as far as looks and attitude (with real, sincere women), and i agree.

im not here to split hairs (which seems to be what youre doing) because like i said earlier the difference between a visa and no visa is slight dollar wise, and even slighter effort wise.

again your personal situation and preferences mean nothing to other members of the board as far as how theyll pick and choose their method of madness other than a few tips about what worked for you with the women and what didnt. again, the visa process is a bug on the windshield.

go to Ukraine, anyone, i certainly have no problem with that. but to disregard Russia because of the visa process is plain shortsighted.

Roberto,

two words...energy & oil. if youre going to sit there and tell me Ukraine is better off overall economically than Russia, then what can i say? Russia is in much better financial condition overall than Ukraine and it dont tell me that a few get most of the oil money, because it still trickles down. and there's no trickling going on in Ukraine.

Chivo

[dorogoyroberto]

two words...energy & oil. if youre going to sit there and tell me Ukraine is better off overall economically than Russia, then what can i say? Russia is in much better financial condition overall than Ukraine and it dont tell me that a few get most of the oil money, because it still trickles down. and there's no trickling going on in Ukraine.

Chivo

Good luck to you, sir!

Roberto
Kiev, Ukraine

[wiz]

Wiz,

are you stupid?

my point was back when you made your first comment and now is that the process of getting a visa is nothing. this is about expanding the playing field, thats all its ever been about. that you say its a big hassell to someone who doesnt understand might scare a person away from a great hunting ground for a lucky few. its just isnt so. a visa is so minimum compared to what you will dealing with later and if a visa is the difference from opening up yourself to this part of the world, then get out now because you have absolutely no chance pulling off getting a woman from here. 

Chivo

Chivo


I will not use the same expression like you did because that is indicative of persons who can’t prove or understand something and then resort to that kind of language.

I will make it simple for you, so you can understand what I am talking about.

Americans, Europeans and some other Nationalities can travel to Ukraine without a Visa. It is a simple as that.

Anybody who wants to travel to Russia needs to get an invitation first and then apply for a Visa, which of course requires planning, time and more money.

Is that simple for you?

If that is not an advantage of Ukraine over Russia when comes to travelling there then I am from planet Mars.

Nowhere, in any of my postings, advocated to people not to come to Russia and miss the huge pool of women. I have been there and still coming back soon. I prefer travelling to Ukraine to find the right woman because I live in UK and not in America, where any trip in the FSU countries needs a long time planning.

I do not use my personal circumstances to make my comments because they do not apply to other people, but common sense and the facts as they are.

With reference to your comment of me having any chances in pooling a woman from there I will have to disappoint you by the fact that I have already pooled few women from there and I have a couple on go right now.

The problem we are discussing about Visa interferes and does not helping the process of me getting to know these women better in a much shorter time.

When two people of the opposite sex meet, irrelevant to which country they live, they realise if there is chemistry between them or not! So when I meet the woman from St. Petersburg in Kiev tonight, with which I have been in daily communication for a month now and I like very much what I see sofar, if there is real chemistry there of course I would like to see her more often than the circumstances allow me. So let me tell you that it would be cheaper for us meeting in a Greek island and spent 14 days together than for me travelling to Russia. Luckily for me this woman has no problem in getting a visa there so we will be able to combine long time together plus sunshine and relaxation at the same cost!

Our decision for a meeting in Kiev tonight was made last minute because of her work commitments, but still I am able to fly in Kiev at the drop of a hat, to meet her!

[Bruno]

I will make it simple for you, so you can understand what I am talking about.

Americans, Europeans and some other Nationalities can travel to Ukraine without a Visa. It is a simple as that.

Anybody who wants to travel to Russia needs to get an invitation first and then apply for a Visa, which of course requires planning, time and more money.

Is that simple for you?

If that is not an advantage of Ukraine over Russia when comes to travelling there then I am from planet Mars.

Being European citizen, i will not worry to much about the Russian visa in a near futur... Putin have agree the 25 May to sign with Europe a agreement for a visa regime relaxation... first step for visa free regime... Russia simply follow the Ukrainian example... Visa free was a good move in Ukraine for boost the economie... What have work in Ukraine can work in Russia...

Ok, in first instance, it is Europe who make the negociation and enjoy the change but remember the case of Ukraine... in May 2005, it was visa free for European, test periode of one month... September 2005, new laws who implies visa free for European and for American, Japan, etc...

Some article over the Sochi conference of the 25 May :
- http://www.interfax.com/3/159848/news.aspx
- http://www.regnum.ru/english/646200.html
- http://www.kremlin.ru/eng/sdocs/themes.shtml

At a press conference following the Russia-EU summit in Sochi, Vladimir Putin emphasized that the decision to simplify visa procedures is the first step towards introducing a completely visa-free regime between Russia and the EU.

Bruno, A Happy European 

[Rvrwind]

Well this thread certainly deteriorated from the original post, but then what else is new.
Things are changing in Russia. They aregoing to relax the Visa situation & the oil money is trickling down. I see it all around me. Many people are living better than they ever have before & jobs are becoming more plentiful. If you think that 2000 years of poverty & communist & czarist rule can be overcome in 20 years, your friggin' delusional! It took the west 200 years to get to where they are today, lets cut Russia some slack & give them some time to adjust.
Everybody seems to expect everything to change over night, relax, take a lude, take two, there small!!! Time will allow a more reasonable transition & more reliable. And believe me, economically speaking, Russia is far away better of than the Ukraine!!
Chivo-where are you located? I'm in Tver, livin' & workin', LOL. Wouldn't mind gettin' together for a Piva if your not way out in Siberia!!! 

[wiz]

Well this thread certainly deteriorated from the original post, but then what else is new.
Things are changing in Russia. They aregoing to relax the Visa situation & the oil money is trickling down. I see it all around me. Many people are living better than they ever have before & jobs are becoming more plentiful. If you think that 2000 years of poverty & communist & czarist rule can be overcome in 20 years, your friggin' delusional! It took the west 200 years to get to where they are today, lets cut Russia some slack & give them some time to adjust.
Everybody seems to expect everything to change over night, relax, take a lude, take two, there small!!! Time will allow a more reasonable transition & more reliable. And believe me, economically speaking, Russia is far away better of than the Ukraine!!
Chivo-where are you located? I'm in Tver, livin' & workin', LOL. Wouldn't mind gettin' together for a Piva if your not way out in Siberia!!! 

Canadian cowboy

Who has changed the original post to political one?

Not me of course as I stuck in my line of travel and that is all.

Did you see me slamming Russia down or giving history lessons or making economical or politica comparisson between Russia and Ukraine?

I am glad to hear from Bruno that Putin finally puts a stop to Visa and will open its frontier to tourists. Sure soon will start receiving huge amount of tourists and become a popular destination because is a huge country with much to offer.

Sorry but I must catch my flight to Kiev now.... more on Monday.

[wiz]

Being European citizen, i will not worry to much about the Russian visa in a near futur... Putin have agree the 25 May to sign with Europe a agreement for a visa regime relaxation... first step for visa free regime... Russia simply follow the Ukrainian example... Visa free was a good move in Ukraine for boost the economie... What have work in Ukraine can work in Russia...

Ok, in first instance, it is Europe who make the negociation and enjoy the change but remember the case of Ukraine... in May 2005, it was visa free for European, test periode of one month... September 2005, new laws who implies visa free for European and for American, Japan, etc...

Some article over the Sochi conference of the 25 May :
- http://www.interfax.com/3/159848/news.aspx
- http://www.regnum.ru/english/646200.html
- http://www.kremlin.ru/eng/sdocs/themes.shtml
Bruno, A Happy European 

Bloody plane delayed for one hour.....

Bruno

I suggest that you read the agreement in full in your 3rd link ....at the presidents Putin site.

Nothing has changed for normal European citizens and the shutters are still ON.

Even from this agreemnt GB, Ireland, Denmark are excluded!

You and me we still have to go through the same precedures to get a Visa.

[catzenmouse]

Everybody seems to expect everything to change over night, relax, take a lude, take two, there small!!!

ROFL! Dating yourself with that one Rvr! 

 As far as the Russia vs Ukraine goes I think that they are both going through growing pains and will continue to do so for many years to come. There are good and bad people in both countries. If you prefer one over the other then that is a personal choice and it is exactly how you should handle it. My wife is Russian so that causes me to lean in that direction. Other ladies are from Ukraine so I am sure that their husbands lean in that direction. When I was searching I was open to pretty much any of the FSU countries. Visa/No Visa, longer travel/shorter travel were little things. The important thing is to find someone that is right for you and you for her. Everything else are just details.

 For some the visa is no big deal for others it is. Another personal choice. Just like the WOVO vs WMVM. It ultimately boils down to "What works for you?"

Ken

[Bruno]

Bruno

I suggest that you read the agreement in full in your 3rd link ....at the presidents Putin site.

Nothing has changed for normal European citizens and the shutters are still ON.

Even from this agreemnt GB, Ireland, Denmark are excluded!

You and me we still have to go through the same precedures to get a Visa.

About you and me, i am not sure :

Besides, Vladimir Putin stressed significance of agreements on easing visa regime and readmission prepared by experts. “Signature of them will give a momentum to business initiatives, cultural and scientific ties, student exchange,” he supposes.

Will be more easy for business men like you !!!

And i have never say that it change something now but Putin say that it is the first step to a full visa free regime ! Give some time for the next negociation...