Top U.S. general says it is time to consider arming Ukrainian forces

[LiveFromUkraine]

Er..., ahem.


The European Union has.


http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?type=TA&reference=P7-TA-2014-0248&language=EN


There have been European leaders that have censured Putin for destabilizing the New World Order as they were referring to the Budapest Memorandum.


Although, I agree that it is a European problem right now.

Thanks for the link Muzh.  That is the first proclamation of invasion that I have read and it only addresses Crimea (unless I missed something in that link).  I still don't understand why we and other countries involved are not labeling this for what it is with all the evidence that we should have.

[LiveFromUkraine]

What are you, Audie Murphy?

All anyone here wants to do is Arm The Ukrainians.  How you go to arming the Ukrainians to leaving for the front is not logical . . .

It's called context LT.  I am for arming Ukrainians.  I do not believe people who don't think that way are cowards.  The people yelling "cowards" are the people who are sitting on their asses doing nothing besides posting bravado.  Sort of like your insistence of meeting in person or calling on the phone.  You think you are scaring people, but it is more comical than scary.   

[lordtiberius]

Context is insulting people over things they didn't say?  Are you sure?  You say you are for arming Ukraine?  Why?

As for everything else you said, meh,

[LiveFromUkraine]

Context is insulting people over things they didn't say?  Are you sure?  You say you are for arming Ukraine?  Why?

As for everything else you said, meh,

How is your dress?  Do you wear it when you act like a victim while insulting other members?

[lordtiberius]

You are boring.

[LiveFromUkraine]

You are boring.

Says the man with no friends.  Try spending some time offline for a change.

[lordtiberius]

***yawn***

[AC]

Thanks for the link Muzh.  That is the first proclamation of invasion that I have read and it only addresses Crimea (unless I missed something in that link).  I still don't understand why we and other countries involved are not labeling this for what it is with all the evidence that we should have.

NOT just Crimea is addressed in this link.


http://belsat.eu/en/articles/eu-breaks-taboo-russian-forces-ukraine-euobserver/

[LiveFromUkraine]

NOT just Crimea is addressed in this link.


http://belsat.eu/en/articles/eu-breaks-taboo-russian-forces-ukraine-euobserver/

Thanks, AC, I appreciate the link.


I was just reading that article after some google news searching.  haha


http://euobserver.com/foreign/127667


This paragraph sums up the appeasement so far.

When French, German, Russian, and Ukrainian leaders agreed a ceasefire plan in Minsk last Thursday, they also bowed to Russia’s claim its soldiers aren’t in Ukraine, by calling for withdrawal of “foreign armed formations”.

That is why I do believe it is Germany and France holding up weapon support.  There is simply no reason for not saying invasion.  They are finally (officially) admitting to Russian troops so why not go all the way?  I'm trying to understand the EU's end game here.  It looks like their trading partner is more important. 

[Chelseaboy]

I agree LFU,

                  Russia is a big trading partner for Germany and France has two Aircraft Carriers to sell to Russia.

That's probably why the UK didn't get involved in the Minsk 2 agreement meetings...as soon as there was significant talk of the USA and UK arming Ukraine, Merkel and her French buddy were breaking cover and arranging hasty meetings with Putin...it's all about the money which is why i don't believe NATO as a collective will agree to arm Ukraine.

[Faux Pas]

I agree LFU,

                  Russia is a big trading partner for Germany and France has two Aircraft Carriers to sell to Russia.

That's probably why the UK didn't get involved in the Minsk 2 agreement meetings...as soon as there was significant talk of the USA and UK arming Ukraine, Merkel and her French buddy were breaking cover and arranging hasty meetings with Putin...it's all about the money which is why i don't believe NATO as a collective will agree to arm Ukraine.

It's always "all" about money. If or when NATO or entities in the West decide to arm or support Ukraine, that too will be all about money. There's right and wrong but such decisions are never made on that premise rather than business and financial. For example, the actual cost for the arms to arm Ukraine is mi'nute. The shift gain/or loss of profit that results because of arming Ukraine can be major.

[LiveFromUkraine]

It's always "all" about money. If or when NATO or entities in the West decide to arm or support Ukraine, that too will be all about money. There's right and wrong but such decisions are never made on that premise rather than business and financial. For example, the actual cost for the arms to arm Ukraine is mi'nute. The shift gain/or loss of profit that results because of arming Ukraine can be major.

Exactly, which is why I am having a hard time understanding.  The EU has a trade agreement with Ukraine so you would believe there is money on the table so to speak.  I guess it comes down to how much money compared to Russia's relationship with them. 

[Faux Pas]

Exactly, which is why I am having a hard time understanding.  The EU has a trade agreement with Ukraine so you would believe there is money on the table so to speak.  I guess it comes down to how much money compared to Russia's relationship with them.

It requires stepping out of the trees and seeing the forests. Propaganda works on both sides of any conflict to play against the middle. It's a matter of which central bankers are making a play against other central bankers. The wars, death and destruction are just tools of their trade. Think in terms of a chess game between financiers.

[southernX]

i think what needs to be remembered also is ukraine  will not be eligible for IMF funding if it is at ''war '', or ''invaded ''etc

so a lot of this hedging language being used has a complex background of reasons why so


however there is a deep reluctance on the part of germany or france at present to arm ukraine imo

SX

[mendeleyev]

This past week, over 750 pieces of heavy fighting equipment was delivered to the Baltic states from the USA. Most of it will remain there after joint training exercises.

In addition, ABC news reports that 3,000 US troops are headed to the Baltic region.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/3000-us-troops-head-eastern-europe-exercises-29501996

[AkMike]

But the testosterone deficient leader in Washington is scared to send it where it's needed.

[calmissile]

An important Senate Hearing was held yesterday on arming Ukraine and the Russian threats to Europe.

I am not surprised the alphabet news channels did not provide much coverage.l

To get a sense of what our congress is thinking might surprise some that think nothing is going on.

The first link is the transcripts of the prepared testimony.  It is much better to watch the full video and the question and answer dialogue.

http://www.foreign.senate.gov/hearings/us-policy-in-ukraine-countering-russia-and-driving-reform-03-10-15


The second link is to the full hearing and was an eye opener to me.  Enjoy.

http://www.c-span.org/video/?324727-1/victoria-nuland-testimony-us-policy-toward-ukraine-russia

[Gator]

i think what needs to be remembered also is ukraine  will not be eligible for IMF funding if it is at ''war '', or ''invaded ''etc

so a lot of this hedging language being used has a complex background of reasons why so


however there is a deep reluctance on the part of germany or france at present to arm ukraine imo

SX

I am a more confused than normal.  Your statement alone would be an incentive for Putin to keep applying pressure through the insurgents.  Without IMF funding, the economy of Ukraine will inevitably collapse. 


OTOH, I had the impression that Ukraine is already receiving some IMF funds.  If so, does that mean an armed insurgency/rebellion is not considered war by the IMF?

[JayH]

I am a more confused than normal.  Your statement alone would be an incentive for Putin to keep applying pressure through the insurgents.  Without IMF funding, the economy of Ukraine will inevitably collapse. 


OTOH, I had the impression that Ukraine is already receiving some IMF funds.  If so, does that mean an armed insurgency/rebellion is not considered war by the IMF?

Not  a declared war by Ukraine--it keeps IMF funding coming on schedule. It is lifeline for Ukraine right now.
It is almost certainly the reason Ukraine's leaders have been extremely circumspect in how they deem the Russian invasion -and undeclared war.
Sure that plays into Putins hands to a degree-- but it is about priorities for Ukraine right now.

[Boethius]

There have been reports the IMF would not fund if the war escalated. 
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-02-25/ukraine-said-to-risk-losing-imf-support-for-aid-if-war-escalates

[BillyB]

There have been reports the IMF would not fund if the war escalated. 

The IMF should not fund any nation that is engaged of war. Who knows who will lead Ukraine should a major war break out? Does the IMF want to send funds over there to be used by a new Russian puppet president? If war breaks out, Western nations should send humanitarian aid to keep people from starving. Life will get tough but helping a country financially doesn't make sense when it's unknown who's going to lead the nation in the near future, if they'll honor the loan agreement at the end of the war, and how they'll use the money.

[lordtiberius]

Should?

Lol.

What SHOULD happen is no SWIFT for Putin, aid, loans and weapons for Ukraine. Duh. . . .

[fathertime]

I happened to be browsing about the internet and found this Washington Post article.  Apparently Russian Critic, Alexei Navalny,  stands against arming Ukrainians as he feels it will make the situation worse.   I've heard both sides of the argument and still believe like him that arming Ukraine is not the way to go. 
[/size][/color]
[/size]Here is the link:[/color]
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/dont-send-weapons-to-ukraine-top-russian-kremlin-critic-says/2015/03/17/9c3ca224-cbea-11e4-8730-4f473416e759_story.html


Fathertime! 

[sleepycat]

I happened to be browsing about the internet and found this Washington Post article.  Apparently Russian Critic, Alexei Navalny,  stands against arming Ukrainians as he feels it will make the situation worse.   I've heard both sides of the argument and still believe like him that arming Ukraine is not the way to go. 
[/size][/color]
[/size]Here is the link:[/color]
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/dont-send-weapons-to-ukraine-top-russian-kremlin-critic-says/2015/03/17/9c3ca224-cbea-11e4-8730-4f473416e759_story.html


Fathertime!

Neville why are you using different font sizes within the same post?
If you are going to copy & paste then at least fix up the font sizes so it doesn't look so amateurish...
 

[fathertime]

Neville why are you using different font sizes within the same post?
If you are going to copy & paste then at least fix up the font sizes so it doesn't look so amateurish...
 

No talk of dwarfs or mongoloids or shaved vagina's  or even Putin....makes this post seem so out of place forYOU.

Fathertime!