Rich Americans

[Ste]

Is this a good time to start a B-17 vs Lancaster debate?

Ste

[jb]

Ste,

My fav, and one in which I have many hours in, is the B-26. Actually it was the Navy version, the A-26.   

[Ste]

Ste,

My fav, and one in which I have many hours in, is the B-26. Actually it was the Navy version, the A-26.   

Is that the Martin Marauder?

I had a Airfix kit of that!

I have a soft spot for the Short Stirling, the RAF's first four-engined bomber. Suffered from stunted wingspan (to fit in the hangars!), and weak undercarriage. Also an alarming swing to the port side on takeoff, many lost that way.....

Bloody thing was hugely tall!

Ste

[coco]

I don't know why you are all talking about Luxembourg now?
Are we the only from all the poor European to be rich enough?

Anyway to show jb that we are not all that bad some news from my hobby.


www.amba.lu/

[jb]

Not quite, the Navy A-26 was the Douglas Invader, while the Army Air Corps used the B-26 Martin Marauder.  The Douglas version of essentially the same airframe was about 50 MPH faster and carried an extra 1,500 lbs bomb load.  Making it 30 MPH faster than the B-17 and carring about the same amount of ordinance.



The A-26 has been used extensively in a number of civilian transport roles since the end of the war.  It is a favorite of the US Forest Service being used as a fire retardant bomber in putting out forest fires in remote places.  I flew this aircraft as a magnetometer platform doing airborne mineral survey in latin America.  It was ideal for this purpose due to it's ability to operate out of relatively short airfields and low density (high elevations) situations.  The airport in La Paz, Bolivia is, I think, the tallest airport in the world at 4,082 m, almost 13,500 ft. above sea level, the A-26 with it's two P&W R-2800-79, 2,000hp engines equipped with 2 stage superchargers handled this airfield with ease.

It was a real kick in the pants to fly, but it was a difficult airplane to slow down.  Once you got it going above 280 MPH you had to really think hard about your landing approach about 40 miles out, or you'd overshoot everytime.  I had some real adventures with model number Douglas 5000E in Peru, Bolivia, and Argentina.  I almost met my demise in it when we suffered a landing gear malfunction one day, luckily for us, it was a ferry flight and we just happened to have our crew machanic on board who was able to make the necessary repairs while we flew around in circles over Lima, Peru burning off excess fuel.  It was touch and go there for a couple of hours and I had already bent over, put my head between my legs and kissed my ass goodbye. 

This same aircraft was later donated to an RAF museum, I heard it was augered in during an air show somewhere in England and killed one of my dear friends, one of your countrymen, Don Bullock, who worked with us during my two year stint in South America back in the 1970's.

[Ste]

Not quite, the Navy A-26 was the Douglas Invader, while the Army Air Corps used the B-26 Martin Marauder.  The Douglas version of essentially the same airframe was about 50 MPH faster and carried an extra 1,500 lbs bomb load.  Making it 30 MPH faster than the B-17 and carring about the same amount of ordinance.



The A-26 has been used extensively in a number of civilian transport roles since the end of the war.  It is a favorite of the US Forest Service being used as a fire retardant bomber in putting out forest fires in remote places.  I flew this aircraft as a magnetometer platform doing airborne mineral survey in latin America.  It was ideal for this purpose due to it's ability to operate out of relatively short airfields and low density (high elevations) situations.  The airport in La Paz, Bolivia is, I think, the tallest airport in the world at 4,082 m, almost 13,500 ft. above sea level, the A-26 with it's two P&W R-2800-79, 2,000hp engines equipped with 2 stage superchargers handled this airfield with ease.

It was a real kick in the pants to fly, but it was a difficult airplane to slow down.  Once you got it going above 280 MPH you had to really think hard about your landing approach about 40 miles out, or you'd overshoot everytime.  I had some real adventures with model number Douglas 5000E in Peru, Bolivia, and Argentina.  I almost met my demise in it when we suffered a landing gear malfunction one day, luckily for us, it was a ferry flight and we just happened to have our crew machanic on board who was able to make the necessary repairs while we flew around in circles over Lima, Peru burning off excess fuel.  It was touch and go there for a couple of hours and I had already bent over, put my head between my legs and kissed my ass goodbye. 

This same aircraft was later donated to an RAF museum, I heard it was augered in during an air show somewhere in England and killed one of my dear friends, one of your countrymen, Don Bullock, who worked with us during my two year stint in South America back in the 1970's.

My current reading is Bomber Command and USAAF during WW2, and I have nothing but respect for those guys who went and did it. A lot is said about the USSR on the Eastern Front but bombing was the only way of hitting back until D-Day. The lose rates were astronomical even on an easy night. I have a picture of two B17's colliding in the air waiting to land, 20 aircrew dead, three on the ground in a flash. No relaxing even when the hard bit was over.

Hard to imagine, twenty years old, 30,000 feet in the air, flak, fighters, collisions, being bombed on, mechanical failure, -60C, oxygen masks, electrically heated suits, sat in one position for upto ten hours.


Nothing makes my blood boil more than someone complaining over a minor discomfort, I always think of these boys.....

Ste

[coco]

De Gaulle In Russia

www.normandieniemen.org

[jb]

My current reading is Bomber Command and USAAF during WW2, and I have nothing but respect for those guys who went and did it. A lot is said about the USSR on the Eastern Front but bombing was the only way of hitting back until D-Day. The lose rates were astronomical even on an easy night. I have a picture of two B17's colliding in the air waiting to land, 20 aircrew dead, three on the ground in a flash. No relaxing even when the hard bit was over.

Interesting reading, I'm sure.

The true stories from that era were horrific, I can't imagine that we could ever wage war again on that scale, what with the embedded video reporters putting the war in living color right in our living rooms each and every evening.  We just celebrated the 62nd anniversary of D-Day where over 6,000 Americans, over 2,000 Brits, and about a 1,000 Canadians were killed in a single day.  Can you just picture the public outrage seeing those images on the nightly news today?  My own father and two of his brothers participated in that D-Day invasion and I'm sure my mother and the rest of the family held their breath until they heard from them.  I was but a tiny tot at the time and have no personal memories, but I heard plenty of first hand recounting as I grew up.  Those men were extraordinary.

[Michelangelo]

We just celebrated the 62nd anniversary of D-Day ... My own father and two of his brothers participated in that D-Day invasion...   I was but a tiny tot at the time and have no personal memories...

My God, JB--u were around at D-Day?  How old are you man?  You do look like a dog in ur pic and a bit "long in the teeth," but 65???  Amazing!

[jb]

Yes, Michael, over 60 now, I started this process back when I was Clyde's age.  Is that a problem for you?

[David1963]

Yes, Michael, over 60 now, I started this process back when I was Clyde's age.  Is that a problem for you?

That is an awful long time to search for a woman.  You missed out on many years, I'm sure it is worth it though.

I think to many people are trying to find the youngest, prettiest woman they can which lends itself to a very long search.

I find that loosening up in areas to me, that are not as important; age and looks, to find someone sooner is better.  Everyone is different though.

[Michelangelo]

Yes, Michael, over 60 now, I started this process back when I was Clyde's age.  Is that a problem for you?

No, not at all.  Wisdom comes with age.  But you look like such a young pup!  

[Michelangelo]

JB, I'm trying to "enlighten" my fiancee on the vital role America played in WW II.  The USSR education system left that out of their history books 

So I sent her by sms your line about 6000 Americans dying in one day at D-Day. 

She replied that half the Russian population was killed by the Germans in WW II and the entire city of Minsk destroyed...

[Shadow]

JB, I'm trying to "enlighten" my fiancee on the vital role America played in WW II.  The USSR education system left that out of their history books 

So I sent her by sms your line about 6000 Americans dying in one day at D-Day. 

She replied that half the Russian population was killed by the Germans in WW II and the entire city of Minsk destroyed...

Michelangelo just never discuss such things from an 'America won the war' type of view with Russians. You will start WW3.

[jb]

When you consider I dated my wife for several years before we married, and we've been married now for over 5 years. I didn't miss out on so much.  I was single about 12 years after my divorce and although I dated a number of women during that time I really didn't think I'd ever remarry again, it was not a priority for me.  I was quite happy being single.  I'll admit I had fallen into a rut and she was what yanked me, kicking and screaming, out of it.

My wife is not a young girl at the time, although we had met years eariler when she was a smokin'hotkova,  she was in her 40's when we started dating and still hasn't hit the 50 mark yet, I don't dare mention her real age (because she reads this forum), but there isn't a 20 age gap between us either. 

I'll let you guys struggle with the fuzzy math if you are really that curious.

[Michelangelo]

Michelangelo just never discuss such things from an 'America won the war' type of view with Russians. You will start WW3.

RIGHT; and i never said such a thing.  All I was trying to get across was that America was IN the war :-)  She could not believe my father had fought in WW II, since he was an American :-)

Hitler was not too pleased about D-Day, BTW.  Wonder what would have happened without it?

[jb]

Russians know the Allies were in the war, but like a lot of histories written on this side of the pond, the emphasis is placed on our contribrution, not theirs. 

I believe to this day one of the reasons why Stalin clamped down the Iron Curtain after the war in 1945 was because he was so angry with Churchhill and Roosevelt for not opening a western front sooner than they did.  He was pushing for a D-Day style invasion much earlier to relieve pressure on the Eastern (Russian) front.  He felt that every day the Western Allies delayed the start of the conquest of western Europe cost that many more Russian lives.

Unfortunately, he was probably right, however the war machine was not in place to be effective sooner.  But he was still pissed.

[Jumper]

Micheal-
wasn't it Patton? who reputadely said something to the effect of:
 "Wars are not won by dying for your country, its making the other poor Baestard die for his"

but that might not be a good point to make with her..

and yea history often is twisted around by school programs,
 both here and abroad.

My wife meeting  my grandfather(91) was amazed at his clarity and accurate remembering of places in Europe during his time there during  WW2.
she was more amazed that he lost 4 brothers in that war.
Three in Europe,  one in the pacific.He had 8 brothers and 5 sisters.  

[Michelangelo]

Yeah, historians mostly agree that Roosevelt was waiting for the Russians to inflict maximum damage on the Germans before we entered the war...

It was also interesting to read the French view of the war when I was in Paris last month..

We all write our own histories...

[coco]

My uncle french nationality but ethnic Luxembourger was forced in the Wehrmacht by the German.He was a snipper and killed many Russian.He was a good looking guy of the Aryan type and founded a new tribe with some Natasha's.

He was made a prisoner at the battle of Kursk.He was liberated from the camp of Tambow by the free French from De Gaulle.

He spend some time with the Brits in Iran and joined the Free French in North Africa.

With the Armée Rhin-Danube he invaded Austria defended by the Waffen and Totenkopf SS.A snipper again he killed many SS.

When asked which from all this armies was the best,he used to say the French best food and best wine.

[Michelangelo]

But I kinda like the Russian women...

[Michelangelo]

Micheal-
wasn't it Patton? who reputedly said something to the effect of:
 "Wars are not won by dying for your country, its making the other poor Baestard die for his"

but that might not be a good point to make with her..

and yea history often is twisted around by school programs,
 both here and abroad.

My wife meeting  my grandfather(91) was amazed at his clarity and accurate remembering of places in Europe during his time there during  WW2.
she was more amazed that he lost 4 brothers in that war.
Three in Europe,  one in the pacific.He had 8 brothers and 5 sisters.  

Good points :-) 
I also made a point when I showed her a map of modern day Germany and all the US bases there and asked if the US did not drive into Germany, why did we "get" half the land?  She said we must have "made a deal with Hitler." :-)
It was great your wife got to meet your grandfather. What a validation of history!
 BTW, my fiancee says that the history books have been "changed" now in Ukraine.
She is not too happy about it :-)

[coco]

He did too...I learned my first Russian from him

[Jumper]

 Micheal, she was most impressed by how much he knew of the Ukranian sufrage during that time, and the huge losses of both German,Russian, and Ukrainian lives.Both during and after the war.
 She was surprised he would know anything at all about it..
when in fact he knew more of her nations history in the great patriatic war than she did.lol!

[docetae]

Yeah, historians mostly agree that Roosevelt was waiting for the Russians to inflict maximum damage on the Germans before we entered the war...

It was also interesting to read the French view of the war when I was in Paris last month..

We all write our own histories...

depending of the role of the french ... In France, majority of the people were belonging to the silence crowd ... not for german, but not for DeGaulle too.... just trying to survive. At the end of the war , the story was different as you get "heros of the last hour"

Do not forget that after war, it was very close that France become communist too. De Gaulle get support from US because he was the only alternative to the red ...

At the beginning of the war (1939), France was able to stop and even to fight back nazis, but the incompetence of General like Gamelin and politics have built the history we know.

I get a different view on ww2 for several reasons mainly from family archive of my step father and from my late grand father .