Back to War?

[Boethius]

OK, decentralization. Though I'd like to know how to call a state formation with own army (called militia), own police and own foreign policy (towards Russia) 

First, to be more accurate, not Donbas residents but residents of Donbass territory under Ukrainian administration. Second, all main players including Russia want Donbass to be part of Ukraine under some conditions. It's not easy to convince 35%, many of them with guns, to stay in Ukraine even as autonomy (OK, decentralization )

The criminal terrorists don't want Donbass to be part of Ukraine.
 
Excellent article on the area -
 
http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/143268/paul-stronski/broken-ukraine
 
 

[lordtiberius]

To you, anyone who has a higher education degree than yours (i.e, GED) is nothing but an elitist who hates America.


So what's new besides phi over lambda?

Boring

Hey Belvis, post something insulting will ya? 

Meni nabridli pidarasi

[calmissile]

The criminal terrorists don't want Donbass to be part of Ukraine.
 
Excellent article on the area -
 
http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/143268/paul-stronski/broken-ukraine

Agree, good analysis.

[mendeleyev]

Belvis, while the Russian Constitution has been set up as a 'federation," the government is highly centralized. Presidents of Republics can no longer call themselves as such, and instead must call themselves "heads" of their respective Republics.

Direct election of top officials was stripped from voters and instead, those positions were filled by appointment of the Kremlin. Today, some republics have regained some of those voting privileges, but in many cases the process is one in which the Kremlin nominates a candidate, and only then can that candidate be voted on.

Outside of Chechnya, where a dictator rules with an iron fist to force the independent minded opposition to the underground, few Republics have the kind of self-rule that Putin has demanded that Poroshenko give to the Donbas. There is an expression in the West of "what is good for the goose, is good for the gander." I am curious as to our thoughts on why Putin values this loose and autonomous federalism for Ukraine, but refuses to allow the same for his own people?

[Belvis]

I am curious as to our thoughts on why Putin values this loose and autonomous federalism for Ukraine, but refuses to allow the same for his own people?

Because civil war is going on  in Ukraine, not Russia. You mention Chechnya and its semi-independent dictator.  Special status of Chechnya become possible after the war, and helped to stop the war. So de-facto you've got two options in Ukraine to stop the war: military victory and elimination of all separatists, and autonomous federalism. Trying to find the third solution is the masked support for prolongation of war.
   As for Putin, he is able to help Ukraine in suppression of pro-Russian mood at Donbass. But give me a single good reason why he should do it, and don't tell about money.  Here we have a collision of moral values, different ideologies, not struggle for profit. Suppressing of pro-Russian movements is the task for Ukrainian nationalists, as I incline to think.
   And  about federalizm in Russia. Do peoples here fight with guns for federalizm as in Ukraine? You again raised the speculative question which is discussed among political scientists, not people.

[Boethius]

The "pro Russian" mood in Donbass never encompassed the majority of the population.

Here we have a collision of moral values, different ideologies, not struggle for profit.

On this, I disagree 100%.   Euromaidan was started by oligarchs who felt they were missing out on the distributions occurring under Yanukovych.  Similarly, Donbass was a reaction to distributions, and a fear by oligarchs based there that they would lose access to their fortunes and power.  The previous "leaders" of the "struggle for moral values" were imported from Russia.  The current leaders are looking at consolidating fortune, not morals.


There is a reason the only people left in the region are the vulnerable - the old and the poor.  Or perhaps you believe they are the only ones with the moral values the region allegedly wishes to protect?

[mendeleyev]

Belvis, you are a political, and very astute at side stepping direct questions. My congratulations, you have an open career path in your future.

Because civil war is going on  in Ukraine, not Russia. You mention Chechnya and its semi-independent dictator.  Special status of Chechnya become possible after the war, and helped to stop the war.

Nice try, but it will not work. The only reason the war stopped in Chechnya was not at all as you pretend. The war stopped because Chechnya had been reduced to rubble and hundreds of thousands died, and many more simply "disappeared." Why? Because they wanted to be independent again, as they had before being conquered by Russia.

Is it not strange how Putin wants some to be independent, but murders hundreds of thousands in a neighboring region who wish for the same?

As for federalization, you did not answer the question. So, why does Putin want federalization for Ukraine, but all the while he has quashed the concept for Russia?

[lordtiberius]

Mariupol is next
http://youtu.be/aG8ZslJJ-xI

[Belvis]

Is it not strange how Putin wants some to be independent, but murders hundreds of thousands in a neighboring region who wish for the same?

Oh, I see the liberal template regarding Putin and Chechnya. I hold this question, and even know where from you took the number of  hundreds of thousands of murdered. For your information this number was voiced first by Kadyrov to get large dotations from Moscow. Red Cross had completely different numbers as well the data of demography. OK, we have here different topic.
So you justify, judging by your words,  Putin's politics in Chechnya, and correspondently project it on Donbass .  It means you support  hundreds of thousands to be murdered in a  region who wish to be independent.
In my view,  Putin's politics in Chechnya can not serve an excuse to the war in Donbass.

As for federalization, you did not answer the question. So, why does Putin want federalization for Ukraine, but all the while he has quashed the concept for Russia?

I have answered but you do not hear. Putin want federalization for Ukraine because the war is going on there, and federalization is a solution to settle the conflict in a way which is favorable for Russia. Putin has quashed the concept for Russia because there is no war in Russia.

[mendeleyev]

Belvis:

I hold this question, and even know where from you took the number of  hundreds of thousands of murdered. For your information this number was voiced first by Kadyrov to get large dotations from Moscow.

Novel answer. I will have to remember that one. Were it true, and it is not, then Putin's boy is a scheming liar. Why, if what you say is true, does Putin not find someone with integrity?



Belvis:
 

Putin has quashed the concept for Russia because there is no war in Russia.

So, we call it the Russian "Federation" and such is enshrined in the Constitution, but at least you have admitted that Putin has quashed it.

[jone]

Oh, I see the liberal template regarding Putin and Chechnya. I hold this question, and even know where from you took the number of  hundreds of thousands of murdered. For your information this number was voiced first by Kadyrov to get large dotations from Moscow. Red Cross had completely different numbers as well the data of demography. OK, we have here different topic.
So you justify, judging by your words,  Putin's politics in Chechnya, and correspondently project it on Donbass .  It means you support  hundreds of thousands to be murdered in a  region who wish to be independent.
In my view,  Putin's politics in Chechnya can not serve an excuse to the war in Donbass.
I have answered but you do not hear. Putin want federalization for Ukraine because the war is going on there, and federalization is a solution to settle the conflict in a way which is favorable for Russia. Putin has quashed the concept for Russia because there is no war in Russia.

Belvis,

You are so out of your league.

[lordtiberius]

Oh, I see the liberal template regarding Putin and Chechnya. I hold this question, and even know where from you took the number of  hundreds of thousands of murdered. For your information this number was voiced first by Kadyrov to get large dotations from Moscow. Red Cross had completely different numbers as well the data of demography. OK, we have here different topic.
So you justify, judging by your words,  Putin's politics in Chechnya, and correspondently project it on Donbass .  It means you support  hundreds of thousands to be murdered in a  region who wish to be independent.
In my view,  Putin's politics in Chechnya can not serve an excuse to the war in Donbass.
I have answered but you do not hear. Putin want federalization for Ukraine because the war is going on there, and federalization is a solution to settle the conflict in a way which is favorable for Russia. Putin has quashed the concept for Russia because there is no war in Russia.

Yeah, yeah, Russia is always good and everyone else is wrong.

Question, how is it that a punk ass Chechen mafioso kills a Russian citizen subject at Red Square but the FSB has no office in Chechenya - allegedly a part of Russia?

[mendeleyev]