It's me again folks, and I have yet another question!

[BillyB]

As far as the money, I don't really care about it.  I'll spend whatever it takes.  But whatever I do spend will be to some purpose, not throwing it away on some scammer or wasting it on a trip to Belarus for no apparent reason.

When you find at least one woman you're interested in that is thrilled to hear your voice on the phone and/or see your face on Skype often, that is the time to buy the ticket.

[Faux Pas]

PBR Streetg
   I was thinking the same thing with the phone.  Like I said before, something is off.  I just can't put my finger on what it is.  She could be an amateur pro dater, who knows.  What I do know is I'm cutting my losses. 

She lives (supposedly) 4 hours from Minsk and said she would arrange the taxi down there for me.  This threw up a tiny flag but taken in conjuncture with all of the rest of the things I've discovered, it does seem plausible she's trying to scam me.  She also said she would set up an apartment.  No mention of cost on the apartment but she did say the taxi would cost me 1$ per km.  I looked up the average rate of taxis there online and they were 55 cents.  More and more things keep piling up. 

Thanks for the advice.  I appreciate it.

You keep ignoring the obvious here guy. That being, if she was interested in you, you would have many phone conversations by now, many skype sessions. She would have called you a few times. It's not a prodater or a scam. Likely a real woman that tested you and for whatever reason, she's not interested anymore. Move on, this one is done

[mendeleyev]

Thanks for the info everyone.  I don't think I'm dealing with a pro dater.  What I think I'm dealing with is an idiot.  I've been talking with her for months and have verified a great many things she has told me.  On the other hand, new information has come to light in the last couple of days, and in researching that I have found that there have been several lies as well.  What I'm taking away from this is she is just messing around and isn't serious about actually trying to form a relationship.  I will list some of the things I've found out.

1) She is a real person. 
2) Her profession is real.  (She is actually a veterinarian.)
3) Her phone number is real. (I have talked to her on it)
4) She does live in Belarus.
5) Her age is correct.

Things I've found are untrue
1) Her last name.  She gave me a false one
2) her phone number isn't a land line like she told me.  It is a mobile
3) the town in which she lives is about 70 miles down the road from where she told me she lives. 

The suspicious activity that lead me to start snooping with earnest.
   We would arrange a time to speak on the phone, but I could never get anyone to answer it.  After about 50 phone calls, I have talked to her exactly once.  I couldn't figure out why, since she lives with her parents and it was a home phone (the lie) why wouldn't they answer the phone if she was out?  It got me to thinking. 

Another thing is she asked me in an email how we might make our relationship grow.  What could we do other than email.  Since she uses an internet cafe for the internet, Skype was out.  I suggested getting a facebook account.  At least that would be a real time conversation.  She said that she didn't have a Facebook account.  When I said get one, it was ignored.  Got me thinking some more. 

So I started digging.  I managed to find her on VK.  Different last name, but it's her.  This is how I found out that she has a mobile phone, because she checks her VK with it.  Not to mention the 900 selfies with the phone.  I checked Belarus phone directories and found out the prefixes for mobile and land lines.  The number she gave me is her mobile.  That explains why the parents didn't answer, but not why she never answers it.  And, if she can check VK with her phone, why not send an email? 

All in all, she seems like she just wants to play around, but isn't serious.  She says she is, but the lies tell a different story.  I'm going to cut ties with this one, but I think I'll ask her about all those fine points first.

Whew, where to start?

I will start with you looking for a nice American or Western girl. You are not going to connect with any FSU lady with this approach.

Fact: She lives in a country that still has an active KGB. Your approach has likely reminded her of that.

That you find her part of the world to be so boring that the only reason you would travel there is for marriage tells me that it would be your last trip. Her last trip, too. Any desire to return home to visit Mama and family might be verboten. If you do not consider her culture and world as worthy of your time, then she will never measure up to your standards because she is a product of that environment.

As for last name, did she interchange a last name and a patronymic? Fairly common in that part of the world, and in fact it is considered polite to do so. Just one example: Natalya Ivanovna Petrova can be correctly identified as Natalya Ivanovna, or as Natalya Petrova, or Natasha Ivanovna, or Natasha Petrova, or Tasha Ivanovna or Tasha Petrova or Nata Ivanovna or Nata Petrova or Natalie Petrova or Natalie Ivanovna. There are more, and each legit. Often on social media, such as VK, one uses the name that most former school classmates would recognize.

As to Facebook, why should she join if you already have vk? VK is the giant where she lives, Facebook is growing but it is not yet the size of VK in her part of the world. Besides, she lives in a country, just like their bigger neighbor, that preaches that Facebook is a tool of the evil CIA. Relax, and since you already have VK, use it with a lady.

As to land line vs mobile, again I fail to see the big deal. If an associate were ask for my home phone, and since I live in Russia, they'd be given my mobile. That is my "home" phone. Do you understand phone service in the FSU? My first land line phone took over a year to be installed--in Moscow, the second largest city in Europe! I also learned the danger of allowing someone in my home, as how did I know they really worked for the phone company or simply had a false document that looked official.

Were you to ask me where I live, I'd tell you that it was near Metro Kozhukhovskaya. True that the Mendeleyev Journal office is several blocks from there, but my home is an easy 50 minutes from there. This isn't the free and prosperous USA, and giving out a more specific address carries potential dangers, making it silly to provide such to an Internet stranger. So, until I know you, really know you, and your reasons for asking where I live, all you need to know is Metro Kozhukhovska. In her culture, that is quite ordinary...and safe.

She may have also given you a very correct address. As a Westerner, you don't have to maintain an official "registered" address in your home country. She lives in the FSU and thus she have very well have this requirement. She may live at that address, or she may live somewhere else that is unregistered. Quite normal as a matter of fact. If she is going to register your visa at her address when you visit, she is going to list her registered address, not where she may really reside. She may not have lied. Besides, what motivation would she have to lie to you? Even if a scammer, you having her home town or correct address isn't going to matter.

A final thought on listing addresses: Her registered address will determine where she will receive routine state-run medical care. If she works in a larger town, or has close relatives who live there, it is definitely to her advantage to have some sort of address there. Medical care in a small village will be basic at best. Medical care in a larger town will be much more advanced. Emergency care is provided anywhere, but one cannot routinely get advanced care in places where she does not have an address. There may be tax issues, and property ownership issues in play, as well. Don't judge--ask. Better yet, don't ask until you have the relationship right to ask. Some questions come far too soon in a relationship.

Your thorough "checking her out" and your "digging" has ruined any possibility of this to go anywhere.

Fact: The vast majority of ladies here are not out to scam you. They just aren't. The good news is that for the few that would, it isn't that hard to avoid them. There are plenty of idiots who are afraid of scams, and they are pathetic little boys. Do not join their little clubs.

So here is my advice: You cannot go fishing unless you go to the water. This isn't a game where you browse thru the catalog, make an order, and sit in the Fed Ex parking lot until the package arrives. Put on your wading boots and go fishing. If not, sell the rod and reel in a garage sale.

[TheBullRDR]

Whew, where to start?

She lives in a country that still have an active KGB. Your approach has likely reminded her of that.

She doesn't know anything about my "digging"  I haven't confronted her about any of this so as far as she knows, everything is just fine.  The questions I asked were to determine, as I have previously stated, why I could never get through to her on the phone.

As for last name, did she interchange a last name and a patronymic? Fairly common in that part of the world, and in fact it is considered polite to do so. Natalya Ivanovna Petrova can be correctly identified as Natalya Ivanovna, or as Natalya Petrova, or Natasha Ivanovna, or Natasha Petrova, or Tasha Ivanovna or Tasha Petrova or Nata Ivanovna or Nata Petrova or Natalie Petrova or Natalie Ivanovna. There are more, and each legit. Often on social media, such as VK, one uses the name that most former school classmates would recognize.

The last name went from Shvec to Melnikova.  Unless I'm missing something, I don't think those are interchangeable. 

As to Facebook, why should she join if you already have vk? VK is the giant where she lives, Facebook is growing but it is not yet the size of VK in her part of the world. Besides, she lives in a country, just like their bigger neighbor, that preaches that Facebook is a tool of the evil CIA. Relax, and since you already have VK, use it with a lady.

Your time line is off here.  I mentioned Facebook weeks ago.  it went ignored.  She has never mentioned VK to me nor would I even know about it except that after an image search on google I found her there.  I would gladly use VK to speak with her.  The point is I dug it up on my own instead of her coming to me with it.  If she wasn't trying to hide it, why the secrecy?  I'm guessing it's because it had a different name but that's only a guess. 

As to land line vs mobile, again I fail to see the big deal. If an associate were ask for my home phone, and since I live in Russia, they'd be given my mobile. That is my "home" phone. Do you understand phone service in the FSU? My first land line phone took over a year to be installed--in Moscow, the second largest city in Europe! I also learned the danger of allowing someone in my home, as how did I know they really worked for the phone company or simply had a false document that looked official.

 

If this isn't a big deal, then why lie about it?  Why tell me she doesn't have a cell phone and that it is a land line?  Makes no sense.

Were you to ask me where I live, I'd tell you that it was near Metro Kozhukhovskaya. True that the Mendeleyev Journal office is several blocks from there, but my home is an easy 50 minutes from there. This isn't the free and prosperous USA, and giving out a more specific address carries potential dangers, making it silly to provide such to an Internet stranger. So, until I know you, really know you, and your reasons for asking where I live, all you need to know is Metro Kozhukhovska. In her culture, that is quite ordinary...and safe.

She never gave me a specific address.  Just a city.  Come to find out that isn't the right city.  not even close.  Kalinkovichi is in no way Gomel.  126 km apart.  Again, a lie for no reason that I can see.  Especially after researching her town in an effort to learn more about her and plan what we could do when I arrived.  We exchanged emails about it, and the lie just rolled up on itself.  Hindsight on those conversations is 20/20.

Your thorough "checking her out" and your "digging" has ruined any possibility of this to go anywhere.

So catching her in lies, and then making sure they are actually lies, isn't her fault, it's mine.  I should just rush blindly into something without any thought at all.  Not going to happen.

This isn't a game where you browse thru the catalog, make an order, and sit in the Fed Ex parking lot until the package arrives. Put on your wading boots and go fishing. If not, sell the rod and reel in a garage sale.

I'll go fishing when I find a suitable fish. Not going with my fly rod only to find nothing but sharks. 

Honesty is pretty simple.  Don't lie. If you aren't comfortable enough with someone to give out personal information, such as your last name, then just say that.  Not real hard.

 

You keep ignoring the obvious here guy. That being, if she was interested in you, you would have many phone conversations by now, many skype sessions. She would have called you a few times. It's not a prodater or a scam. Likely a real woman that tested you and for whatever reason, she's not interested anymore. Move on, this one is done

I'm not ignoring it.  That's why I said I am moving on.  I just can't wrap my head around why she would keep emailing me daily saying how interested she is if she's not interested.  This makes no sense to me. 

And I don't see the quote right off, but whoever said that the trip to her country would be boring and any trips home wouldn't be allowed, that is BS.  I never said any of those things.  In fact I have already told her that we would return at least once, and probably at least twice a year if she wished.  What I did say is that visiting there isn't the main goal.  If I just wanted a vacation, I would go elsewhere.  Belarus, as a country, is not on my bucket list.  That doesn't mean I wont find interesting things while I'm there and make the most of my time.  Let's be honest, though.  The reason that country even crossed my radar as a destination is because of a woman.  That is the main purpose of me going there. 

When you find at least one woman you're interested in that is thrilled to hear your voice on the phone and/or see your face on Skype often, that is the time to buy the ticket.

I'm realizing this more and more.  Looks like I just swallowed the excuses too long. 

[AC]

So here is my advice: You cannot go fishing unless you go to the water. This isn't a game where you browse thru the catalog, make an order, and sit in the Fed Ex parking lot until the package arrives. Put on your wading boots and go fishing. If not, sell the rod and reel in a garage sale.

Was that an intentional Freudian slip?

 

[AC]

She doesn't know anything about my "digging"  I haven't confronted her about any of this so as far as she knows, everything is just fine.  The questions I asked were to determine, as I have previously stated, why I could never get through to her on the phone.

The last name went from Shvec to Melnikova.  Unless I'm missing something, I don't think those are interchangeable. 

Your time line is off here.  I mentioned Facebook weeks ago.  it went ignored.  She has never mentioned VK to me nor would I even know about it except that after an image search on google I found her there.  I would gladly use VK to speak with her.  The point is I dug it up on my own instead of her coming to me with it.  If she wasn't trying to hide it, why the secrecy?  I'm guessing it's because it had a different name but that's only a guess. 
 

If this isn't a big deal, then why lie about it?  Why tell me she doesn't have a cell phone and that it is a land line?  Makes no sense.

She never gave me a specific address.  Just a city.  Come to find out that isn't the right city.  not even close.  Kalinkovichi is in no way Gomel.  126 km apart.  Again, a lie for no reason that I can see.  Especially after researching her town in an effort to learn more about her and plan what we could do when I arrived.  We exchanged emails about it, and the lie just rolled up on itself.  Hindsight on those conversations is 20/20.

So catching her in lies, and then making sure they are actually lies, isn't her fault, it's mine.  I should just rush blindly into something without any thought at all.  Not going to happen.

I'll go fishing when I find a suitable fish. Not going with my fly rod only to find nothing but sharks. 

Honesty is pretty simple.  Don't lie. If you aren't comfortable enough with someone to give out personal information, such as your last name, then just say that.  Not real hard.

 I'm not ignoring it.  That's why I said I am moving on.  I just can't wrap my head around why she would keep emailing me daily saying how interested she is if she's not interested.  This makes no sense to me. 

And I don't see the quote right off, but whoever said that the trip to her country would be boring and any trips home wouldn't be allowed, that is BS.  I never said any of those things.  In fact I have already told her that we would return at least once, and probably at least twice a year if she wished.  What I did say is that visiting there isn't the main goal.  If I just wanted a vacation, I would go elsewhere.  Belarus, as a country, is not on my bucket list.  That doesn't mean I wont find interesting things while I'm there and make the most of my time.  Let's be honest, though.  The reason that country even crossed my radar as a destination is because of a woman.  That is the main purpose of me going there. 

I'm realizing this more and more.  Looks like I just swallowed the excuses too long.

Based on all of your answers here I would say that you are not ready yet for FSU women.  They are a different breed.  Why not make an exploratory trip to Kiev or other easy to visit Ukrainian city?  Make it a "visit many" trip but go with the mindset that you actually are a tourist, wanting to not only visit a city on your bucket list, but wanting to make some friends and get to know the people.

Your approach seems to be all or nothing and that may not work out as planned.

[jone]

Only Alex300 seemed to get what I is truly happening here.  And he should - his wife worked in an agency as I am about to describe to you:

This is a 'construct' conversation.  There is no REAL woman on the other end of the phone when you have been talking.  Instead you are talking to a person on a phone that is reading of your relationship from a screen that details your previous conversations.  There are women who sit around all day in agencies acting out profiles that are put up on the internet.

These women will use the base information from a profile and take things from there. 

Let's examine the evidence:

01.  You have never interacted with this women in a video format.
02.  She has talked to you on the phone, but that could be anyone.  You don't know.
03.  When you have suggested that you share a video you are rebuffed.
04.  When you suggest that she shares with you personal information (like FaceBook or VK) you are rebuffed or ignored.
05.  She has changed her name so that you could not obtain those links to the real person.

I am convinced that if you contacted the individual that you found on VK that she would have NO knowledge of you and that she would wonder who you were if you contacted her.  Since you say you have no skin in the game and you are playing out her lie, why don't you take my challenge and message her through VK.  I am confident that you will not get a response that confirms your conversations.

I was talking to someone in Niko a couple of years ago.  We would be talking in person, on Skype, when I was talking to her 'profile' on one of the websites.  I would ask her questions on the website and 'she' would make up answers.  When I finally confronted the agency employee about her lies, the individual was mad at me for tricking her.  Imagine that! 

You are not the first to be tricked.  It is an art form.  But you can get real people that really want a relationship.  Use one of the subscription websites.  The women on these sites are not there to make money.

[TheBullRDR]

why don't you take my challenge and message her through VK.

A very good idea and I fully intend to.  Firstly, I was not sending any emails for a few days to see the reaction from her.  Then I surely will contact the vk profile person and see if they are one and the same or, as you say, totally different. 

As far as using a subscription site, I met this one on EM.  So I've been down that road.  There are more dishonest people than you think on there.  Granted, it's a small percentage.  With this one, say about 4 out of every 150.  That's my personal experience anyway. 

Anyway, thanks for the advice. I will let you know what happens when I do email the VK profile. 

[msmobyone]

The very first response you had was smart advice ..

REALLY... why are you bothering ...


Spend your time profitably, finding a keeper..end of

[alex330]

She lives (supposedly) 4 hours from Minsk and said she would arrange the taxi down there for me.  This threw up a tiny flag but taken in conjuncture with all of the rest of the things I've discovered, it does seem plausible she's trying to scam me.  She also said she would set up an apartment.  No mention of cost on the apartment but she did say the taxi would cost me 1$ per km.  I looked up the average rate of taxis there online and they were 55 cents.

Look at my reply to the amusing April fools story Larry posted a link to upthread. Even if this girl is legit she has already caused "bugs in head" as they say in Ukraine Just move on.

[jone]

Benjamin Franklin said:  "Experience keeps a dear school, but fools will learn at no other".

This guy clearly is obsessed with an agency run profile.  He has no idea who he is talking to.  He has no feedback from 'her' other than the stroke that he gets when he finally gets through to talk to 'her'.  And most of his letters are being answered by Hairy Boris.

Everyone on here has told him to move on, but until he gets kicked by the mule on the side of the head, he won't get it.

There are legitimate dating sites.  There are even legitimate gals on the PPL and PPC sites.  However, in this situation, he swallowed the hook going after the bait and he can't spit it out.  I feel sorry for him.

To our intrepid dater, I say:

Udachi.

[mendeleyev]

ШВЕЦЬ (Shevec/Shvets) is a name common to the Jewish community in Ukraine and Belarus, however given the large number of Jewish families that lived in Belarus prior to mass executions in WWII, it is not surprising to find that name still in Belarus. Some Jews changed their names later for greater degrees of anonymity and the surname Мельникова (Melnikova) could easily be associated with that community. With names, I have found it to be wiser to ask and discuss before labeling something as a lie. There is just too much potential for cultural misunderstandings.

As for the phone, again a land line versus mobile is something of a fine point in language when you consider the traditional background. I am not lying when I label my mobile as a home phone because that is what I use at home. Unless you speak fluent Russian or Belorussian, drilling down to a hard definition of "land line" as opposed to "home phone" could again be a cross up due to language.

Apparently you didn't understand my analogy regarding addresses. It is easy to have an official address, far away from one's "real" address. I have an aunt who lives in Moscow but for years she left her official address as Volgograd. That is an 18 hour train ride south of Moscow. She did that for property ownership reasons during that time stretch. Was she lying because she lived 18 hours away from her address? Hardly. Again, for reasons of access to better medical care, or to protect ownership to an apartment or home, she may use an address that is different from where she is officially registered.

The question that you have to resolve moving forward is how much information you expect a gal to give when she has yet to meet you. For all she knows, you could be a potential axe murderer. Until you have actually met, she owes nothing more than generalities, however the lack of Skype does raise a red flag.

You say that you have dug without her knowledge. Then ask some questions of her.

The arrangement of apartment and taxi is always scary, but can be a point of misunderstanding. A gal can use you for splitting fees with someone later on, or she may pay a little more for the security of getting a man from point A to point B. The last thing you need is a dishonest taxi driver who takes you for a tour of the world before the meter stops at her home, or one who stops in the middle of nowhere to renegotiate the rate and you have little choice but to concede. My mother in law often says that she is too poor to be cheap, and safety and reliability in that part of the world may be worth some extra cash. On a first visit, most guys should arrange those things themselves, if for no other reason that to have an "out" in case the face to face meetings do not work out. But her offer could be out of genuine desire to help make your travel easier.

The reality of "pro daters" left with the 90s. Given the fact that so few men travel these days, no gal can make a living by pro dating Western men. That is especially true of Belarus, where the percentage of men visiting gals is miniscule compared to places like Ukraine.

All that being said, I'll go with Jone and Alex on this one. Likely she is real, and just as likely the real "her" has no idea of who you are. One of the biggest scams on the women, aside from men who tease but never travel, is the offer of professional photos for "modeling jobs." A pretty gal is offered the chance to pose for a portfolio and she is told that her photos will be shopped to advertising agencies seeking models. More commonly, her photos are sold to dating agencies who create fake profiles without her consent.

[AC]

I doubt if she is an agency worker.  More likely she's just not that into him.  He's wasting time with a rabbit hunt and needs to pay very close attention to the advice given by Mendeleyev.

[JohnDearGreen]

Well, until I'm sure I'm stepping off of a plane to a real person that is very interested, I'm not wasting my time.  I'm not getting on a plane to go have coffee with someone then get back on it and come home.

Line up about a dozen to have coffee with in the Minsk area.  Then meet her also.  No need for all the worrying with that plan, unless you think your batting average will be less than .083 this year.

[TheBullRDR]

  is a name common to the Jewish community in Ukraine and Belarus, however given the large number of Jewish families that lived in Belarus prior to mass executions in WWII, it is not surprising to find that name still in Belarus. Some Jews changed their names later for greater degrees of anonymity and the surname Мельникова (Melnikova) could easily be associated with that community.

A good point except she isn't Jewish.  Neither are her parents.  A small detail, I know but if the grandparents or great grand parents changed their name, why would she change it back?  No real answer here but it could be argued both ways.  I did just send an email asking her in a very polite way why the two names.  I expect that the answer will be some BS.

As for the phone, again a land line versus mobile is something of a fine point in language when you consider the traditional background. I am not lying when I label my mobile as a home phone because that is what I use at home. Unless you speak fluent Russian or Belorussian, drilling down to a hard definition of "land line" as opposed to "home phone" could again be a cross up due to language.

 

I thought of that beforehand.  That is why I made it very clear in my question to her. 
Question:  Is the phone number you gave me a land line, installed in your house, or a mobile phone that you can take with you? 
Answer:  It is a land line.  I do not own a mobile phone.  It is connected to the wall in the drawing room. 
This is obvious crap because I have pictures of her holding the phone taking selfies.  Not ones she sent me, mind you.  Rather ones I found of her on VK, which she still doesn't know I know about.

Apparently you didn't understand my analogy regarding addresses. It is easy to have an official address, far away from one's "real" address. I have an aunt who lives in Moscow but for years she left her official address as Volgograd. That is an 18 hour train ride south of Moscow. She did that for property ownership reasons during that time stretch. Was she lying because she lived 18 hours away from her address? Hardly. Again, for reasons of access to better medical care, or to protect ownership to an apartment or home, she may use an address that is different from where she is officially registered.

 

No I didn't know any of that.  I suppose that is possible.  Thanks for the info. 

For all she knows, you could be a potential axe murderer. Until you have actually met, she owes nothing more than generalities, however the lack of Skype does raise a red flag.

This is all very true.  But I would say that if those suspicions exist, then the outpour of emotions in her emails wouldn't have been there.  If you like I can post excerpts of these emails to give a better idea of what I'm talking about. I meet people all the time and giving my real last name is something I do in the first words I say to them while shaking their hand and introducing myself. I don't know if they're an ax murderer or not either.  The draw back is they are standing in front of me, so easier access if they are.  She is protected by distance should I turn out to be a whacko in her eyes.  Basically, After this much time and the overall tone of the emails, some basic information is warranted, IMO. 

The arrangement of apartment and taxi is always scary, but can be a point of misunderstanding. A gal can use you for splitting fees with someone later on, or she may pay a little more for the security of getting a man from point A to point B. The last thing you need is a dishonest taxi driver who takes you for a tour of the world before the meter stops at her home, or one who stops in the middle of nowhere to renegotiate the rate and you have little choice but to concede.

Yes I pondered this for quite a while.  While it could go either way, taken with everything else lets just say it put up a yellow flag.  The conversation about this stuff was basically;  Can you give me the name of a few taxi companies in Minsk so I can arrange for transportation to your home town?  Also, can you give me the names of some nice places to stay while in your home town so I can make those arrangements as well?
Her answer;  I will have someone waiting for you at the airport with your name on a sign.  That taxi will bring you here.  The best thing for you is to rent an apartment here and I will arrange that too. 
  Prices quoted for the taxi were about double what the national average is, according to the Belarus travel page.  No prices were given for the apartment. 

A pretty gal is offered the chance to pose for a portfolio and she is told that her photos will be shopped to advertising agencies seeking models. More commonly, her photos are sold to dating agencies who create fake profiles without her consent.

I'm betting this is exactly what is happening.  The real girl doesn't even know this is going on.  The agency has taken her pictures and basic info and made a profile without her knowledge.  In order to find that out, I made a profile on VK and sent a message to the woman there.  We will see if she's ever heard of me. 

Benjamin Franklin said:  "Experience keeps a dear school, but fools will learn at no other".

This guy clearly is obsessed with an agency run profile.  He has no idea who he is talking to.  He has no feedback from 'her' other than the stroke that he gets when he finally gets through to talk to 'her'....  However, in this situation, he swallowed the hook going after the bait and he can't spit it out.  I feel sorry for him.

To our intrepid dater, I say:

Udachi.

If you read my other posts, I have already stated several times that I'm cutting ties with this one.  That means not chasing her any more. Did you miss those?  Any further contact is just for my own curiosity.  Getting to the bottom of a good puzzle is one of my favorite things.  So if I can glean a bit more information about what has actually transpired here, I'm all for it.  Also, I had to look up what Udachi means.  Thanks.

I doubt if she is an agency worker.  More likely she's just not that into him.  He's wasting time with a rabbit hunt and needs to pay very close attention to the advice given by Mendeleyev.

Excerpt from emails:
My dear XXXXX
I am happy that our correspondence is restored!
Thanks for additional e-mail!
now I will be cleverer and I will surely keep your address in mine to a notebook!
You worried, what I was silent and didn't write you?
You are happy, what we again together?
I can't state the word of pleasure that we again in contact with you!
Please don't worry about me. Now I'm fine completely!
I will fight for my love! We have to trust each other and the nobility when someone from us didn't write the letter, it doesn't mean that we forgot each other, we shouldn't lose each other! You agree with me?
I endured a big stress this week and now when received your answer I became a little calmed …. It was shock that I lost touch with you!!
I have no Facebook, but now I have you ….
Care I hope, your day and week go well at you.
I send you many embraces and kisses.   
Your XXXXXXX

Now does that sound like she's not that into me?  If so, I will have to rethink my entire philosophy on what that means, exactly.   

Line up about a dozen to have coffee with in the Minsk area.  Then meet her also.  No need for all the worrying with that plan, unless you think your batting average will be less than .083 this year.

This isn't a bad idea.  I'm still trying to wrap my head around it, though.  It somehow seems dishonest to me.  Just thinking about it makes me feel like a sex tourist or something.  No I'm not saying I'm going to jump at them all, but it just seems, I don't know, like I'm cheating or something.  Hard to express that in words.  I'm still mulling on it though.

[Larry1]

I thought of that beforehand.  That is why I made it very clear in my question to her. 
Question:  Is the phone number you gave me a land line, installed in your house, or a mobile phone that you can take with you? 
Answer:  It is a land line.  I do not own a mobile phone.  It is connected to the wall in the drawing room. 
This is obvious crap because I have pictures of her holding the phone taking selfies.  Not ones she sent me, mind you.  Rather ones I found of her on VK, which she still doesn't know I know about.

Only 17 people between the ages of 18 and 50 in Belarus, Russia, and Ukraine do not have mobile phones.

For the literal-minded I should point out that this is an exaggeration, but you get the idea.

I apologize if you have addressed this question above, but how well does she speak and understand English?

[alex330]

Excerpt from emails:
My dear XXXXX
I am happy that our correspondence is restored!
Thanks for additional e-mail!
now I will be cleverer and I will surely keep your address in mine to a notebook!
You worried, what I was silent and didn't write you?
You are happy, what we again together?
I can't state the word of pleasure that we again in contact with you!
Please don't worry about me. Now I'm fine completely!
I will fight for my love! We have to trust each other and the nobility when someone from us didn't write the letter, it doesn't mean that we forgot each other, we shouldn't lose each other! You agree with me?
I endured a big stress this week and now when received your answer I became a little calmed …. It was shock that I lost touch with you!!
I have no Facebook, but now I have you ….
Care I hope, your day and week go well at you.
I send you many embraces and kisses.   
Your XXXXXXX

Now does that sound like she's not that into me? 

It sounds like Stanislav or a terp is into you tbh. Trust, worried she lost you, big stress without hearing from you, good effing grief.

[jone]

Excerpt from emails:
My dear XXXXX
I am happy that our correspondence is restored!
Thanks for additional e-mail!
now I will be cleverer and I will surely keep your address in mine to a notebook!
You worried, what I was silent and didn't write you?
You are happy, what we again together?
I can't state the word of pleasure that we again in contact with you!
Please don't worry about me. Now I'm fine completely!
I will fight for my love! We have to trust each other and the nobility when someone from us didn't write the letter, it doesn't mean that we forgot each other, we shouldn't lose each other! You agree with me?
I endured a big stress this week and now when received your answer I became a little calmed …. It was shock that I lost touch with you!!
I have no Facebook, but now I have you ….
Care I hope, your day and week go well at you.
I send you many embraces and kisses.   
Your XXXXXXX

Now does that sound like she's not that into me?  If so, I will have to rethink my entire philosophy on what that means, exactly.   

Hairy Boris is in to you. 

[TheBullRDR]

It sounds like Stanislav or a terp is into you tbh. Trust, worried she lost you, big stress without hearing from you, good effing grief.

My thoughts exactly

Hairy Boris is in to you. 

Again, that's what I was thinking.  As I said in the post you quoted. 

Only 17 people between the ages of 18 and 50 in Belarus, Russia, and Ukraine do not have mobile phones.

For the literal-minded I should point out that this is an exaggeration, but you get the idea.

I apologize if you have addressed this question above, but how well does she speak and understand English?

She doesn't do bad.  As you can see in the excerpt letter she sent, there are quite a few mistakes, but she does well enough to be understood.  As for the understanding part, every letter I send her is written in English and I also paste in a translation that I ran through Promt. I don't think english is the point, I think it is the fact that something fishy is going on. 


I'm going to ask another question.  Now before all of you lose your minds and start blathering on about things already addressed, consider all the information before you. 

Question:  If this is an agency or a scam of some sort, and I believe it is some sort of maligned thing, then explain the length of time.  In my limited experience the hard scammers I've come across start asking for stuff early on.  I have been emailing this woman since the end of November.  Never has there been any talk of me giving her anything or her asking for anything.  All there is is wanting me to come there as quickly as possible.  That did start pretty early on, and is understandable.  This line of thought is what led me to the "Pro-Dater" thing and is why I started this thread in the first place.  Taken in conjunction with every other little bit of info that has already been discussed, this is the only thing that goes in her favor.  So many things that just don't add up. 

[AC]

No, an agency worker or a pro-dater is not going to ask for stuff early.  Not in letters or phone calls.  The scam will come after you arrive.  That's why I think you are being compulsive about this now and need to let it go.

If you are staying in the ladies apartment and having carnal relations with her she expects you to buy her some stuff; that is just their culture and you should do it with a smile on your face.

If otoh you are being led around like the link that Larry gave you and only getting a peck on the cheek then that is the work of a pro-dater.  You are overpaying for everything.  But again this only happens after you go there!

Seems to me IMO you are trying to dot to many i's and cross too many t's without even meeting somebody (not this lady you need to let this one go yesterday and move on).

You are behaving more like some women on the net who make a guy jump through hoops and check all her fantasy boxes -- and that's why most guys never meet her.  You are doing the same -- ie trying to impose all your Western standards onto a foreign lady.  Read the first post by Mende again but this time keep an open mind.

[Anathema]

That letters seems pretty scammy to me if you've never met or even spoken on Skype.

Good luck though; let us know how it turns out.

[Boethius]

It read very much like a Nigerian scam email.

[cc3]

Drop her! Drop her now and restrict your searches to non-dictatorial nations. That eliminates Belarus, Muscovy, and the 'Stans. It's difficult enough to find and date a woman in eastern Europe/FSU without having to worry about being governmentally harassed every step of the way. I have had two lifetime memorial relationships with EEW/FSUW in the last nine years, the first Bulgarian, the second (my present fiancee) Ukrainian. You would have to be extremely desperate to search for a partner in the reestablished semi-Soviet tyranny of the Muscovite-dominated Eurasian Economic Union.

[AC]

Drop her! Drop her now and restrict your searches to non-dictatorial nations. That eliminates Belarus, Muscovy, and the 'Stans. It's difficult enough to find and date a woman in eastern Europe/FSU without having to worry about being governmentally harassed every step of the way. I have had two lifetime memorial relationships with EEW/FSUW in the last nine years, the first Bulgarian, the second (my present fiancee) Ukrainian. You would have to be extremely desperate to search for a partner in the reestablished semi-Soviet tyranny of the Muscovite-dominated Eurasian Economic Union.

I just no longer agree with this.  Go where you like a particular woman if you are doing wovo.  I just met a very attractive Russian lady locally and she is very aware that Putin is a dictator.  Not all of them believe the propaganda.  In fact the average but attractive RW who are there probably don't want to talk politics at all.  Did you read the trip report of msmobyone? 

[TheBullRDR]

Well we have conformation.  I just got a message back from the real woman on VK.  She's never heard of me and has no idea about any of this.  So yep, some sort of scam. 
   Now I will try and get the actual scammer to tell me what the end goal was.  It's a long shot, but I have heard stories about them eventually cracking and coming clean.  Might as well give it a shot.  I may learn something.