The Real Victors of WW2 in Europe

[Ludmila]

Read facts and figures to know WHO REAL VICTORS OF WW2 WERE.
http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2015/may/09/the-real-victor-of-world-war-ii-in-europe/

[Larry1]

Read facts and figures to know WHO REAL VICTORS OF WW2 WERE.
http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2015/may/09/the-real-victor-of-world-war-ii-in-europe/

It is well established that the Soviet Union did most of the fighting against Nazi Germany. The article you have brought to us recounts that.  But I suspect that you might not agree with this part of the article:

No one likes to admit it was Stalin who defeated Nazi Germany. Stalin killed far more people than Adolf Hitler, including 6 million Ukrainians liquidated in the early 1930’s and four million Muslims during the war. The Soviet gulag was grinding up victims well into the 1950’s.

Today, seven decades later, we are barraged with films and reports about Germany’s concentration camps while Stalin’s far more extensive and lethal gulag is ignored.

[Ludmila]

It is well established that the Soviet Union did most of the fighting against Nazi Germany. The article you have brought to us recounts that.  But I suspect that you might not agree with this part of the article:

What makes you think I disagree with the assessment of Stalin's "heritage"? Elaborate , please.

[Larry1]

What makes you think I disagree with the assessment of Stalin's "heritage"? Elaborate , please.

Usually Russian zealots are fond of denying that Stalin was a mass-murderer. They tend to minimize his crimes. But perhaps you are not one of these Russian zealots and just want to educate readers on the extent of the Soviet Union's fight against the Nazi invasion.

[Ludmila]

Usually Russian zealots are fond of denying that Stalin was a mass-murderer. They tend to minimize his crimes. But perhaps you are not one of these Russian zealots and just want to educate readers on the extent of the Soviet Union's fight against the Nazi invasion.

For starts, it may not hurt if you clarified the meaning of "zealots" to the not so enlightened like Sleepy cat.
Secondly, give your definition of "a Russian zealot". And "an American zealot" "A German zealot"( for that matter.
Are YOU an American zealot? How do I know you are not. Is Bill Clinton ( and the wife whom he ashamed right being "busy" in the Oval Office american zealots? Clarify, please.

[Larry1]

For starts, it may not hurt if you clarified the meaning of "zealots" to the not so enlightened like Sleepy cat.
Secondly, give your definition of "a Russian zealot". And "an American zealot" "A German zealot"( for that matter.
Are YOU an American zealot? How do I know you are not. Is Bill Clinton ( and the wife whom he ashamed right being "busy" in the Oval Office american zealots? Clarify, please.

1. For starts, it may not hurt if you clarified the meaning of "zealots"

Those people who assert that their country is always right, no matter what the evidence to the contrary.

2. Are YOU an American zealot?

No, I criticize the American gov. when I think it has made mistakes, something I do quite often. This sort of criticism seldom happens with Russian zealots.

[Ludmila]

Examples of your criticism, please.

[Ludmila]

Still waiting for your definition of "American, French, German, etc zealots. Or is it exclusively applied to Russians?

[Larry1]

Still waiting for your definition of "American, French, German, etc zealots. Or is it exclusively applied to Russians?

I see a few American zealots, but pretty much no French or German zealots. Russians and Red Chinese seem to have cornered the market on zealotry.

Here's a question: will you concede that any Russian ruler ever since Ivan III til today, except for Gorbachev and Boris Yeltsin, ever made a mistake or done anything wrong?

I doubt you will, bc you seem to be a typical Russian fanatic.

[lordtiberius]

You know which country kills the most Russians?

Answer: Russia

[Ludmila]

I see a few American zealots, but pretty much no French or German zealots. Russians and Red Chinese seem to have cornered the market on zealotry.

Here's a question: will you concede that any Russian ruler ever since Ivan III til today, except for Gorbachev and Boris Yeltsin, ever made a mistake or done anything wrong?

I doubt you will, bc you seem to be a typical Russian fanatic.

Do I understand you right that , as per your knowledge, while America has "produced" several zealots, it is unknown to you whether the French and Germans are able to--- you know, the latter two may feel offended-- it is Russia and China who are basically programmed for that?
1. examples of American zealots, names, parties, and WHY you think they are what you call them , please.
2. examples of your criticism of American gov.

[STaty]

In the history of my country there is a very bad page. It's very sad. Russian know about it .. They have to always remember it that not to repeat these events.

[Ludmila]

So, Larry, unless you're specific about what you're saying, it is pointless to continue. We're still waiting for your sharing of examples of your  criticism and naming a few American zealots.

[BillyB]

Read facts and figures to know WHO REAL VICTORS OF WW2 WERE.
http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2015/may/09/the-real-victor-of-world-war-ii-in-europe/

It was a group effort. Hitler came within 50 miles of Moscow. America supported USSR heavily with the Lend Lease Program. We gave USSR over 11 billion dollars worth of support which is close to 150 billion in todays money. Here is a sample of what America gave USSR. If it weren't for the help and a bitter Russian winter, Nazis may have been celebrating in Moscow.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease


The USSR was highly dependent on rail transportation, but the war practically shut down rail equipment production: only about 92 locomotives were produced. 2,000 locomotives and 11,000 railcars were supplied under Lend-Lease. Likewise, the Soviet air force received 18,700 aircraft, which amounted to about 14% of Soviet aircraft production (19% for military aircraft).[18]

Although most Red Army tank units were equipped with Soviet-built tanks, their logistical support was provided by hundreds of thousands of U.S.-made trucks. Indeed by 1945 nearly a third of the truck strength of the Red Army was U.S.-built. Trucks such as the Dodge 3/4 ton and Studebaker 2½ ton were easily the best trucks available in their class on either side on the Eastern Front. American shipments of telephone cable, aluminum, canned rations, and clothing were also critical.[19]

[Ed S.]

Read facts and figures to know WHO REAL VICTORS OF WW2 WERE.
http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2015/may/09/the-real-victor-of-world-war-ii-in-europe/

Nobody denies that in America really. I was a Ronald Reagan baby, and I grew up learning about the horrific death toll the Soviet Union faced, with special attention to Leningrad and Stalingrad. If anything there's too much of a push-back minimizing Western Allies' roles, some people credit the Soviets for defeating Japan! Poland is starting to get a lot of recognition now too. America's industrial power definitely assisted the Soviets in the darkest hour after the German's smashed much of the pre-war industry.

Anyone who paid attention in school learns about the Eastern front, granted that might not be much from my experience...

[lordtiberius]

My Favorite Soviet General:

[Boethius]

My favourite Soviet general.  Trained before the Revolution, begged by Stalin to come out of retirement -

[msmobyone]

So, Larry, unless you're specific about what you're saying, it is pointless to continue. We're still waiting for your sharing of examples of your  criticism and naming a few American zealots.

what I see here - is Ludmila - wasting her time and cyperspace - avoiding answering a pretty simple question ..

My tuppence worth- the allies  - the one's that engaged Hitler's AND Stalin's  expansionist aggression in Poland  - LOST WWII as the Nazi's were replaced by another occupying totalitarian regime for nearly 6 decades

It seems that the leader of  Russia now regards the break up of this regime as a 'tragedy' and is hell bent on creating instability in neighbouring nations whilst further criminalising the promotion of separatism at home .. Am I the only contributor that finds those double stds somewhat troubling ?


It is a SAD day when the St Georges ribbon is now synonymous with fighting 'fascism' in Ukraine - a nation were the fascists cannot poll 2%
 

[lordtiberius]

She is using the Ron Paul institute as references.  What an endorsement for his son.

[AC]

It seems that the leader of  Russia now regards the break up of this regime as a 'tragedy' and is hell bent on creating instability in neighbouring nations whilst further criminalising the promotion of separatism at home .. Am I the only contributor that finds those double stds somewhat troubling ?

No.  However May Day should not be about any politicians.  It should be about the soldiers and civilians who lost their lives, and honoring their sacrifice. 

[jone]

I'm sure that we could all supply many tidbits from WWII and the reason that they helped the Soviet cause vs. the Nazis. 

Germany had previously won their encounters by use of Blitzkrieg.  A combined effort of armor and air support, heretofore unseen in warfare on a large scale. 

In June of 1941, when Germany invaded Russia, the Russians were astounded at how fast Germany made it through Belarus.  To assist Stalin, in an effort to keep him in the war, the British launched an all out air assault on Germany.  The results scared the Germans into bringing back a great deal of their fighters to fight for the homeland.  As a result, the Soviet Union had a reprieve when they most needed it.  Immediately thereafter, the Russians and British signed a co-belligerency pact against Germany that formed the basis for their relationship for the rest of the war.

Each of the allies contributed to the fall of Germany.  Britain's help to the Soviet Union came at a time when it was most needed.

[AC]

I'm sure that we could all supply many tidbits from WWII and the reason that they helped the Soviet cause vs. the Nazis. 

Germany had previously won their encounters by use of Blitzkrieg.  A combined effort of armor and air support, heretofore unseen in warfare on a large scale. 

In June of 1941, when Germany invaded Russia, the Russians were astounded at how fast Germany made it through Belarus.  To assist Stalin, in an effort to keep him in the war, the British launched an all out air assault on Germany.  The results scared the Germans into bringing back a great deal of their fighters to fight for the homeland.  As a result, the Soviet Union had a reprieve when they most needed it.  Immediately thereafter, the Russians and British signed a co-belligerency pact against Germany that formed the basis for their relationship for the rest of the war.

Each of the allies contributed to the fall of Germany.  Britain's help to the Soviet Union came at a time when it was most needed.

As did the USA's help to both nations.   

[Anotherkiwi]

As did the USA's help to both nations.   

Fine, but would the USA have entered the war at all if it were not for Pearl Harbor?

[jone]

Fine, but would the USA have entered the war at all if it were not for Pearl Harbor?

Pearl Harbor was the match.  The powder keg was already present and would have been set off by something else. 

[Larry1]

Fine, but would the USA have entered the war at all if it were not for Pearl Harbor?

Probably not, at least without some serious provocation. American sentiment during that period was strongly isolationist. President Roosevelt might have wanted to get the US into the war on Britain's side but he could not have convinced Congress to declare war.

Even after Pearl Harbor, Congress might not have declared war on Germany if Germany had not first declared war on the US. That struck me as a truly idiotic move on Hitler's part.  You're in an all-out war with two of the four most powerful nations in the war and you expand the war to include the other of the world's four most powerful nations.