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[keithsfox]

Hey Guy's,

   I have been considering the whole RW ides for years. I bet i have dated 50-60 AW over the last 6 months and just can't find what I'm looking for. OK so my experience so far is allot of scammers trying to get in my pocket =/ So I haven't been doing this the right way.
  I was seriously considering the Platinum membership with EM. What i would like to know is should i spend my 499.00 that way or should i consider another site to start my search on? Please let me know what you think?? I would like to avoid scammers and just find my partner for life without having to weed through the trash to do it.. Any recommendation on the path the it best for searching?

Keith

[Shadow]

Avoiding scammers is the easy part. The real trash begins after that.
If you think this is a quick and easy solution, think again. The process can take long and will take a good amount of time and money. In the end it is worth it if you find the right woman, but until you reach that stage you need a lot of perseverence and a fair amount of cash.

So where to start ?

If you are a good internet user and can plan your own travel you might want to use the free sites. There are a few more scammers to dodge but the real women you meet there might be contacting you from home or office.

If you want to feel more secure about the people you contact (don't ever think you are completely safe) or need assitance for travel arrangements you can use an agency. The less time you have to invest in to this, the higher the service of the agency you need.

But while you are taking this membership consider the following.
Are you ready to make a trip to the FSU in 4 to 6 months ? If not then when will you be ?
Can you afford to make multiple trips in the coming years not just to visit now but also to go back with your partner if you find her ?
Can you invest the time it takes to let a person get used to your surroundings ?

Just a few points you might consider before taking any action. It is not about money, it is about wasting time of you and of the women that you will raise expectations with.

[docetae]

Shadow is right ... get a budget ready for this ... I estimate the total cost around 30-40k $ and the minimal time spent 2 years . I started this now 8 months ago and I know that I'm not even in the middle of the process....

2000$ for translation/communication/ year
3 trips per year at least @ 4000$ => 12000
her move => 5000$ (depends if she has a child or not)
money needed for the time you take off from work => 5000$ at least/ year


I estimate to around 8 weeks the total time I need to be out of work at least per year ... the first year to travel and if I become engaged to be available for her when she will come on this side of the ocean.

If you have not thousand of $ of economy or if you don't want use them for this, this require a lot of planification.

For agency, to start, I will recommend Dioritz.com .

[Captmonk1]

I personally recommend www.aprettywoman.com

I used it and met my wife there. ( See us on the Testimonial Page )  Anyway, I liked the fact that I could pay one lump sum and get whatever addresses, phone numbers, e-mails I wanted. No middle man. Also, felt like the majority of girls I contacted were "real" girls.

Brad

[Leslie]

First off - there is no best place or strategy.  A lot depends on the way you want to approach this quest.

If you want to establish a relationship by writing (e-mail) before travelling

I reckon the free sites or agencies like a pretty woman are the way to go.  Stay away from agencies who charge for each translated e-mail. Invented letters, bait and switch  nearly ALL these agencies are scam to some extent.  It takes more time and effort but you need to find a woman who speaks/writes English and has access to a computer but you need direct contact/interaction to build a relationship this way.  Elena's Models is also a reasonable choice there are some scammers but they will be easy to spot 

If you are comfortable with going on vacation and dating several women

On a first (and maybe second trip)  I would recommend you organize a trip with an agency - Lifetime Partners, Firstdream,
Tver Angels have good reputations. There are others.  Stay away from the big agency "social" tours they are often little more than very expensive sex tourism.  On subsequent trips you will be more self sufficient and can organize most things for yourself.

Finding an FSU partner can be a long expensive business.  Luck plays a major part.  I spent 3+ years searching before I found the woman who is now my wife.  Spent around $30k on the search.  Enjoyed (most) of the journey.  It is NOT an easy option but the best things in life are hard won.

The best advice I can give is don't rush.  Take your time.  Nearly all the train wrecks happen to guys who hurry!  

Get to know your partner before you propose marriage.  Building a relationship takes a lot of face to face time.  Multiple trips.  Be sure you are up to this before you begin.  According to the people in the agency business 90%+ of the guys who write never make the trip.

Good Luck.

[Turboguy]

Heck, If I would have found success at the $ 30,000 mark I would be one of the old married guys with all the answers. 

You asked about Elena's.  I will say that I am a platinum member and have re-upped twice.  One good thing is after you have joined once they discount the renewal to $ 199.00.  I have felt like I got my moneys worth.   I have to agree totally with everything that has been said so far.  I will also repeat stay away from the agencies that charge by the letter. 

I have done three tours with a big agency.  I would consider another just because they are fun.  I don't agree with the sex tour part but otherwise they are fun but do attract a lot of gals with the wrong agenda.  If someone asked me if they should do one the only reason I can see is if they are nervous about going someplace like that alone where they don't know the language it might have some value but there are more efficient ways to meet good ladies.

[PeeWee]

Heck, If I would have found success at the $ 30,000 mark I would be one of the old married guys with all the answers. 

You asked about Elena's.  I will say that I am a platinum member and have re-upped twice.  One good thing is after you have joined once they discount the renewal to $ 199.00.  I have felt like I got my moneys worth.   I have to agree totally with everything that has been said so far.  I will also repeat stay away from the agencies that charge by the letter. 

I have done three tours with a big agency.  I would consider another just because they are fun.  I don't agree with the sex tour part but otherwise they are fun but do attract a lot of gals with the wrong agenda.  If someone asked me if they should do one the only reason I can see is if they are nervous about going someplace like that alone where they don't know the language it might have some value but there are more efficient ways to meet good ladies.

I'll go with Turbo dude on this one. Elena at least trys to minimize the scammers. I have had great luck with Elena. I even found an RW who lives 25 miles from me via Elena. The out of pocket expense depends on how stupid you are or how lucky you are. But think of it this way. At 30K subtact what you would have spent on an AW over a 3 year period of time and that will be your net costs. If you would have spent 15K on AW in three years then you will spend an additional 15K for the RW. So don't let the 30K or 40K scare you because those costs are not accurate anyway. It is less then that when you first deduct what you think would would have spent on the AW over the same period of time.

Peewee

[Jumper]

Agree with les- there are a lot of ways to go about this..
and it really depends on you.


just my lousy opinion but
you seem plenty  comfortable dating many local women,, why not do the same there?
just increases your odds of meeting the right one..

(not much of a correspondence guy,,but it does work for people)

Leslie said:

If you are comfortable with going on vacation and dating several women


On a first (and maybe second trip)  I would recommend you organize a trip with an agency - Lifetime Partners, Firstdream,
Tver Angels have good reputations. There are others.  Stay away from the big agency "social" tours they are often little more than very expensive sex tourism.  On subsequent trips you will be more self sufficient and can organize most things for yourself.

Finding an FSU partner can be a long expensive business.  Luck plays a major part.  I spent 3+ years searching before I found the woman who is now my wife.  Spent around $30k on the search.  Enjoyed (most) of the journey.  It is NOT an easy option but the best things in life are hard won.

The best advice I can give is don't rush.  Take your time.  Nearly all the train wrecks happen to guys who hurry!

 The only thing i would add-
 you ARE on vacation!
 certainly dont be afraid to talk to anyone that you find interesting..  in the park, in the magazines (shops)
 Mashruka, florist , market, bazarre  ,  wherever.....
   
 you can easily learn enough russian to ask her number anyway? almost all RW have cells anymore , its a craze for the last several years....
and RW are certainly beyond savy enough to know you are interested if asking ;)or joking around with them,. even if they dont know a word you are saying..
you can then call with an interpreter if needed..

I know of one guy that sat on a park bench with a sign (in english)
 *Good wife wanted*

Is that a great method? lol i dont know !
but i tell you he made more viable contacts in 3 hours,
 than most guys writing do in 3 months.
part was maybe personality as he could easily joke around with them wether they understood english or not..
but most had a grasp of english if they could read and laugh at his sign right?

 Thats seriuosly probably what i would do if i was a single guy going into this again..LOL  Local park in volgograd or some big city.. i know i'd have one fun vacation.. and maybe meet someone really special..
 but its probably not a wise choice for a "plan" 

[docetae]

I'll go with Turbo dude on this one. Elena at least trys to minimize the scammers. I have had great luck with Elena. I even found an RW who lives 25 miles from me via Elena. The out of pocket expense depends on how stupid you are or how lucky you are. But think of it this way. At 30K subtact what you would have spent on an AW over a 3 year period of time and that will be your net costs. If you would have spent 15K on AW in three years then you will spend an additional 15K for the RW. So don't let the 30K or 40K scare you because those costs are not accurate anyway. It is less then that when you first deduct what you think would would have spent on the AW over the same period of time.

Peewee

The figure of 30k is a budget figure. In this money, I consider perhaps only less than 10k that are really spent for the RW. Other money is for your own need, the time you will take off from your work with no pay, appartment, flights...

An example : I have four weeks of paid vacation per year. I take another month without sold. So that mean this will cost me one month of salary. I need to include this is in my plan. Two months off over 2 years and you get already a good part of this 30k at least depending of your income.

Don't worry, I will not try to determine the ROI after wedding

[PeeWee]

The figure of 30k is a budget figure. In this money, I consider perhaps only less than 10k that are really spent for the RW. Other money is for your own need, the time you will take off from your work with no pay, appartment, flights...

An example : I have four weeks of paid vacation per year. I take another month without sold. So that mean this will cost me one month of salary. I need to include this is in my plan. Two months off over 2 years and you get already a good part of this 30k at least depending of your income.

Don't worry, I will not try to determine the ROI after wedding

There are so many ways to justify the expense. Let's say it was 40K. So what? if you have bought into the old adage, "You get what you pay for," and you believe that a foreign bride is an all around better fit for you and a woman from your own country then she in fact is worth more out of pocket expenses to you.

Example. You can buy a Starbuck's coffee for much more than a 7-11 coffee but most will agree that for the better blend, better atmosphere, and you will pay more for that, so you do but you have justified that expense. Let's say that you and your buddy both decide to get married. You announce that you will seek a Russian bride and he says that costs too much so he is going American. You both decide to keep track of your expenses. Three years later you both marry. He spent 2oK and you spend 40K and he calls you a fool.

You believe that your bride is what you wanted and she was worth the extra but he does not see it. He then buys a bass boat for 20K. He discovers that his wife is not the bargin he thought she was so he spends lot of time on his boat and so do you because you are his buddy. Now who is the fool? You both spent the same money in the end. He got a so so wife and a cool boat and you got a cool wife and you still get to go fishing on the boat that he paid for. All you have to do is listen to him bitch about what a nag his wife is and catch fish which your lovely wife is delighted to clean! Seems that you both spend your same money differently.

That is just an example that may never happen but my point is that this depends on how you justify the expenses in your mind and what  you think you got in value for it.

Peewee

[jb]

Don't forget to do all the needed repairs on the most important part of the puzzle,,,yourself.  Make sure you are ripe and ready for a serious relationship before heading to the land east of the Danube.  If you don't have your own head screwed on right, the best woman in the world won't be able to fix you, that'd the 1st part you have to take care of.

[Turboguy]

Well, now I feel better.  I passed the $ 30,000 figure ages ago but as far as money spent on RW I am probably right at $ 10,000.   That means one of two things.  1. I am a cheapskate.  or 2.  I must be near my target.  Success may be at hand.

The other thing that is worth keeping in mind is that it is a heck of an adventure.  You get to learn about other cultures, you get to learn another language.  You get to be well acquaited with a part of the world many people know little about.  Than again, once you have your gal you get to learn "yes dear".   Besides you will have the best dressed wife of any of your friends and get to join the rest of us with a mountain of credit card debt.

[PeeWee]

Don't forget to do all the needed repairs on the most important part of the puzzle,,,yourself.  Make sure you are ripe and ready for a serious relationship before heading to the land east of the Danube.  If you don't have your own head screwed on right, the best woman in the world won't be able to fix you, that'd the 1st part you have to take care of.

I have not met an RW yet that did not present a challenge for me. I have always felt that I had to be on my mental game at all times. It is a lot of work for me. More so that with an AW. But all worth the efforts.

Peewee

[chivo]

Don't forget to do all the needed repairs on the most important part of the puzzle,,,yourself.  Make sure you are ripe and ready for a serious relationship before heading to the land east of the Danube.  If you don't have your own head screwed on right, the best woman in the world won't be able to fix you, that'd the 1st part you have to take care of.

maybe I'm wrong, but I'm get the feeling that jb is smelling the same thing i did when i read the initial post.

in other words, are you sure its the women? not to be harsh bro, but 50-60 women and they were all unworthy?

I dated 50+ women when i lived in the states during my life and can absolutely say that many of them were worthy of marriage and far from being scammers. if i wasn't such a "bobnik" at the time i would have married myself. so, yes, it was me...not them!!!

again, i dont know you. maybe you are just a cut above and, yes, the last time i actually dated a AW, i couldn't run fast enough back to my preference...RW.

i adore RW for many reasons. i want to be with one because it is exactly what i want.

like jb suggests, make sure its what you want. dating RW will present you with another set of problems that you can easily dismiss later as something you can't live with. and really, do you want to go to all that expense and trouble? peace out.

chivo

[jb]

chivo,

You are not wrong, I personally think it would be impossible to thread your way through 50-60 women and not find a keeper.  Unless you are dating nothing but trailer trash from the local honky-tonks.  Been there, done that.

I did not set out to marry a Russian woman, my goal was to marry the best woman for me.  I wanted one who shared my viewpoints and outlook on life, my family values, and my desire to trust and be trusted.  In other words, I wanted a partner and a mate.  I just happened to find her while I was working with the Russians.  For me it was purely serendipitous that we ever got together, it was not a plan, per se.

I spent much of my life in the pursuit of personal pleasure, toys, material acquisition, and a hedonistic lifestyle, if it felt good, I did it.  I didn't fully grow up until after my 40th birthday, growing old is manditory, growing up is optional.  I got lucky late in life.  However, I promise you I could not go through 50 or 60 women in Russia and not find a delightful woman who didn't meet or exceed all my criteria. 

If any man dates that many women and is still having problems, then it's not the fault of the women, it's time to have a look in the mirror.

[Turboguy]

I read a statistic years and years ago that said the average man dates 80 different gals before he marries.    Wish I would have read that long ago.  I ended up marrying the second gal I dated.   

Chivo.   That gives you 18 to 28 FSU women to find the right one.

[goleta2sin]

Hey Guy's,

   "I have been considering the whole RW ides for years. I bet i have dated 50-60 AW over the last 6 months and just can't find what I'm looking for. OK so my experience so far is allot of scammers trying to get in my pocket =/ So I haven't been doing this the right way.
  I was seriously considering the Platinum membership with EM. What i would like to know is should i spend my 499.00 that way or should i consider another site to start my search on? Please let me know what you think?? I would like to avoid scammers and just find my partner for life without having to weed through the trash to do it.. Any recommendation on the path the it best for searching?"

Keith,
I did not meet my wife via an agency, but she used to do translations for an agency in her hometown of Chernovtsy.  She will say that the women at this agency are real and she knows the owners. Here is their web link. Best of luck...    http://www.phoenixintl.ho.com.ua/

[PeeWee]

Hey Guy's,

   "I have been considering the whole RW ides for years. I bet i have dated 50-60 AW over the last 6 months and just can't find what I'm looking for. OK so my experience so far is allot of scammers trying to get in my pocket =/ So I haven't been doing this the right way.
  I was seriously considering the Platinum membership with EM. What i would like to know is should i spend my 499.00 that way or should i consider another site to start my search on? Please let me know what you think?? I would like to avoid scammers and just find my partner for life without having to weed through the trash to do it.. Any recommendation on the path the it best for searching?"

Keith,
I did not meet my wife via an agency, but she used to do translations for an agency in her hometown of Chernovtsy.  She will say that the women at this agency are real and she knows the owners. Here is their web link. Best of luck...    http://www.phoenixintl.ho.com.ua/

I did not spend any more than the minimum membership. I  think it was the catalog option. I did not write to any but rather I would let them write to me. That way I knew they were interested. I would then pay the $8.00 to get the address of the one that I wanted to write back to. I bought only one address for $8.00 because she appeared to be what I was looking for based on her photo and the words of the letter she wrote to me. In otherwords, she got my attention.

We have been writing and phoning since. We meet for the first time come late this August. I think it will workout for me and my investment in the search was minimal. Now comes the big money.

Peewee

[Turboguy]

I will talk a little more about my Platinum membership with Elena's   I mentioned I had now re-upped two times.  When I first joined I think they may have done things differently than they do now.  Right after I joined they must have plastered my info everywhere because for the first nearly a week I was getting probably 80 new letters a day.  My mail was coming in faster than I could read it.   Some of the letters were agency generated, I know that, some were scammers but all in all there were a lot of gals.   I did send a little of my overflow to a friend from Michigan who is now very happy married to one of the gals I sent him.  Now that I think of it, perhaps I should see if he wants to pay me back for my membership.  He had better luck with it than I did.  Not long after that I met the gal who was my fiancee for a while but not through Elenas and quit writing all the gals. 

After Luda bit the dust I rejoined Elenas.  I have met enough gals from my membership that I have a hard time keeping up with the correspondence.   I have had maybe 50 write me but I have not paid much attention to them.  I prefer to look through the new lists and write the ones that appeal to me.  I probably get about a 50% response rate from the gals I write but I would guess half of those only last a few letters.  I am sure lots of the gals hear from hundreds of guys.   I am very happy with my membership.  I am not saying there are not a lot of other good agencies, just reporting my experiences with Elenas.

[keithsfox]

Well I dont think it's a matter of not finding a suitable woman. It's more of a i want to find the perfect woman for me.. I'm hunting a package.. I intend on being married to my next wife for the rest of my life so i have to find that special girl for me. If i could spend 100k and have her thats not an issue... i spend 5k a month dating in DC =/

[keithsfox]

It seems that Aprettywoman has alot of women to chose from. Do yall feel that purchasing the 495$ membership is the right way to go. Anyone have experiance with this?

[ronin308]

Keith, not finding a suitable woman also means the possibility your standards are too specific, many guys here spend lots of time and money in this adventure to learn this.
Now that I've offended you, let me share some recommendations with you.
First if you have never written or met a RW/UW do not spend the money to join any agency at this time.  The first thing you need to see is that if the cultural commonalities of them meet what you want.
The easy way to do this is spend some time on some of the free sites and start a basic correspondence.  If you have the money for it make some basic arrangements and just go there, there are plenty of what I call "fixers" who for modest money can set you up with economical apartments, provide translators and other services as needed.  Get immersed in the culture and see if their way of thinking is going to lead you down what you want.

Once you've done this you might be ready to spend money on an agency.  Personally I have gone that route and I doubt I would do it again. 

Agencies with a large selection of women will have a greater percentage of scammers as it's much harder to keep tabs on all the women so they are not always the best bet.

Spending money to be a member of an agency is a waste of time in my opinion.  The one thing I learned about writing to a woman is that it does allow you to get an idea of what you want. You can spend months building up a paper relationship that crumbles the first time you meet her.   It sounds like you already have this so in my opinion you are better off picking a city with a few agencies, and just going there.  Visit their websites before you go if you can and pick a few women from each, then make plans to meet them. 
If during your meetings you find one or two with good chemistry start writing and calling them when you come back.  Now you build your relationship basics and try to decide on just 1 to spend all of your next visit with.  Plan on going back in 2-3 months after your last visit and spend 1 week or more with her.  I would then go back every 2-3 months until you fairly certain she's the one and then file the visa paperwork.  I would not marry her there but wait until she comes here so that you know she will be able to adjust to the US first.
Of course this is just my advice but I created this plan based on my experience plus that of others here.

[catzenmouse]

Keith,

 Ronin's got some pretty good advice there for you. Pick a place and go for awhile. Get your feet wet so to speak and you'll have a much better idea of how you want to proceed and what you want.

Ken

[Bruce]

Keith, there is alot of excellent advice above. 

Remember, if it looks too good to be true it probably is......................ie. the hot looking girls you are drooling over on the major websites are just photos of models that do not exist in real life.  If you are writing one or more of these hot to trot girls you probably are corresponding with a girl who is not the girl you believe you are writing to but a young FSU girl studying English who gets extra dollars from an agency for each letter they write to you concerning XYZ hot to trot girl you think you are corresponding with. 

Look deeply inside yourself and decide why you really want a girl from another country, culture and language.  Relationships are hard if the girl shares your country, culture and language.  Are you sure you want three more variables thrown in your relationship?  Are you ready to pay the dollars it takes to date a girl overseas? 

That being said, I think it is more important for you to decide where you want to go on vacation the first time.  My advice is to see the sights in St. Petersburg, Moscow or Kiev, learn as much as you can, come home and decide with some more information if pursuing a girl in the FSU really is right for you. 

[BillyB]

It seems that Aprettywoman has alot of women to chose from. Do yall feel that purchasing the 495$ membership is the right way to go. Anyone have experiance with this?

Keith,

Like CaptMonk, I used Aprettywoman affiliate site. He got married to a woman there. I felt the women there were real since I didn't get too high of a response rate. You don't need to spend $500 for 500 addresses in one spot. Spend less and do business with other agencies if you have $500 to burn. Scammers are at every agency/dating site but are easy to avoid if you let your big head do all the thinking. Use a co-branded site listed here. You will get more for your dollar than at the main agency, Aprettywoman.
http://aprettywoman.com/assoc.cgi/100100017733171.227.178.1281152588575