The Russian/Syrian connection thread

[2tallbill]

Tension Increases Between Turkey-Russia Over Syria

read all about it here
http://learningenglish.voanews.com/content/tension-increases-between-turkey-russia-over-syria/3084485.html

[2tallbill]

Russia Considers War With Turkey? After Su-24 Fighter Jet Attack

read about it here
http://www.ibtimes.com/russia-considers-war-turkey-after-su-24-fighter-jet-attack-moscow-calls-black-box-2217712

[BC]

I see propaganda, disinformation, obfuscation and simple ignorance lives on... and on... and on....

Kids in kindergarten should be taught that not everything posted on the internet is true.  Seems my generation still doesn't get it.

[2tallbill]

I see propaganda, disinformation, obfuscation and simple ignorance lives on... and on... and on....

Kids in kindergarten should be taught that not everything posted on the internet is true.  Seems my generation still doesn't get it.

I agree, all these news stories are filled with propaganda. That's why I post such a broad
spectrum of it, guessing somewhere inside lies the truth.

Nice to see you stopping by

Udachi!

Bill

[Gator]

The conflict(s) in Syria seems so complex that this thread will continue for years as this becomes a stalemate.    Participants and supporters have diverse and conflicting goals.   

   -  Russia in seeking a larger role in the Middle East wants to keep Assad in power until a transitional plan is implemented.    How many years would such take?   
   -  Turkey is important to any solution yet considers ISIS its third priority following  the Kurds and Assad. 
   -  European nations are more concerned with ISIS yet will not deploy ground troops necessary to clear and control ISIS. 
   -  Sunni nations such as Saudi, Egypt, and Jordan could provide ground troops yet are more concerned with Yemen and the Iranian backed Houti insurgency.   
   -  Iran is deploying forces in Syria with an obviously larger goal to become the primary power in the Middle East and to control Persian Gulf oil production (thereby prices, also a goal for Russia).
   -  The US seems as if it just wants out, and because that is inadvisable over the long term, it seems contented with a stalemate.   

My initial thoughts about Russia's actions have been wrong.    When Russia entered the fray, I thought the Assad government would go on the offensive and overwhelm selected rebel positions.  Nothing dramatic has happened.

Also, I thought the downing of the Russian airliner would have prompted a massive retaliation by Russia against ISIS.  That has been Russia's policy for past terrorism.  Nothing has happened so far other than more bombing of ISIS.  I still believe Putin will send his elite Special Forces on a raid into ISIS territory.  The delay so far suggests 1) he is planning something huge, 2) the Russian military recognizes ISIS to be a formidable adversary and has cautioned Putin to delay, or 3) Russia is stretched too thin by protecting Assad, maintaining its position in and around Ukraine, dealing with Turkey, etc.     

[jone]

I'll go with number three, Gator. 

[mendeleyev]

Me too.

[2tallbill]

Here is some Russian/Turkey News and headlines

Russia says Turkey should pay compensation for downed jet
Associated Press
http://news.yahoo.com/russia-says-turkey-pay-compensation-downed-jet-122002913.html

UPI says Russia a little more insistent than the AP
Russia demands compensation for jet downed by Turkey
UPI
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2015/12/16/Russia-demands-compensation-for-jet-downed-by-Turkey/6331450279685/

The Russia-Turkey Spat: The Big Picture
By Jacob Wolinsky
http://www.valuewalk.com/2015/12/russia-attack-turkey/


Looks like Putin had more work done, maybe he should look
for some hair plugs, something like Joe Biden got?
Russia ‘may expand sanctions against Turkey’

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/russia-may-expand-sanctions-against-turkey.aspx?pageID=238&nid=92586

[2tallbill]

Russia Is Using Space Power in Its Attack on Syria



read all about it here
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/12/16/russia-is-using-space-power-in-its-attack-on-syria.html

[2tallbill]

‘Washington has gone from ‘regime change’ to ‘political transition' in Syria,
but we are not stupid’

http://www.rt.com/op-edge/326112-kerry-visit-moscow-talks/

[2tallbill]

Putin Gambit Over Syria Proves to Be Dual-Edged Sword
By BEN HUBBARD

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/16/world/europe/in-russia-john-kerry-pushes-forward-on-syrian-peace-process.html?_r=0

[fathertime]

‘Washington has gone from ‘regime change’ to ‘political transition' in Syria,
but we are not stupid’

http://www.rt.com/op-edge/326112-kerry-visit-moscow-talks/

I think it is the right move to not force regime change regarding Assad...I'm glad Russia modified our apparent stance.

Fathertime!   

[2tallbill]

I think it is the right move to not force regime change regarding Assad...I'm glad Russia modified our apparent stance.

Fathertime!

Obama and Kerry still want to topple the Assad regime, they just changed the verbage.
Elect Hillary and he will probably get toppled, she wants him toppled.

[2tallbill]

Putin says Russia ready to increase military role in Syria
Vladimir Putin’s warning that Moscow will use ‘more military means’ in
Syria conflict comes just hours after UN roadmap to peace was agreed

read all about it here
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/dec/19/russia-ready-increase-military-role-syria-vladimir-putin

[Muzh]

Obama and Kerry still want to topple the Assad regime, they just changed the verbage.
Elect Hillary and he will probably get toppled, she wants him toppled.

I see you are with Teddy boy. 

[2tallbill]

I see you are with Teddy boy. 

He wisely agreed with me on this.

[fathertime]

Here is an article regarding the US arming of ISIS, purposefully...and we then hypocritically chastise other regimes for their misdeeds...and pretend to be saints.

Seymour Hersh report on Syria: White House knew US was arming Islamic State



WASHINGTON, Dec. 27 (UPI) -- Pulitzer-prize-winner journalist Seymour Hersh reports that the administration of President Barack Obama, in particular the CIA, has knowingly armed militant Islamists in Syria, including the Islamic State.

"Barack Obama's repeated insistence that Bashar al-Assad must leave office -- and that there are 'moderate' rebel groups in Syria capable of defeating him -- has in recent years provoked quiet dissent.....


http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2015/12/27/Seymour-Hersh-report-on-Syria-White-House-knew-US-was-arming-Islamic-State/6951451232210/


Fathertime!

[fathertime]

So much for Russia 'going broke'.


U.S. sees bearable costs, key goals met for Russia in Syria so far

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Three months into his military intervention in Syria, Russian President Vladimir Putin has achieved his central goal of stabilizing the Assad government and, with the costs relatively low, could sustain military operations at this level for years, U.S. officials and military analysts say.....

http://news.yahoo.com/u-sees-bearable-costs-key-goals-met-russia-061507121.html


Fathertime!

[mendeleyev]

FT, we agree on the US funding of what has morphed into ISIS. Benghazi was a key in the transfer of US arms to so called "rebels" in the region.

However, as so "so much for Russia going broke," you need to get out and travel a bit. Ask any Russian--they know they are going broke. They blame the USA for all financial evils, but you won't find an honest Russian who will deny the financial fears and changes in living standards that now exist.

One of the guests in our home for the New Year is a businessman who was high flying just 3-4 years ago. He has sold a large home and downsized his employee base because of the current business climate. They sold a very nice home and moved back into an apartment in order to keep his company afloat. His story is very common these days.

Come to any upscale Moscow mall and almost every store has скидки signs (sales) of 50 to 70%.

[Belvis]

Ask any Russian--they know they are going broke. They blame the USA for all financial evils, but you won't find an honest Russian who will deny the financial fears and changes in living standards that now exist.

I see kind of confusion in rhetoric of Moscow liberals (Mendy reflects their views on the events). They broadcast the alarm about Russia's going broke (they told it for the last 15 years, btw), and at the same time warn the world about Russia's plans to take over the world, Ukraine, Baltic states, etc.   
I can't recall that Russians blame the USA for all financial evils, may be Mendy takes this from marginal ultra-patriotic persons. Common take on financial troubles is that Russia suffers because of the downturn in the global commodity cycle. Living standards has fallen but  continue to be much better than in 1990s-2000s so the support for Putin will stay high.

Come to any upscale Moscow mall and almost every store has скидки signs (sales) of 50 to 70%.

   Yeah, and watch what prices are after these so called discounts Unfortunately,  upscale Moscow malls use the sale signs to promote overpriced stuff. Internet trade is the real way to find the real bargains.

[mendeleyev]

Belvis, I didn't write about a "liberal" but you instantly decided to label a Russian businessman as such without knowledge of who he is in person. Please tell your boss Peskov to be more creative in how his trolls respond to anything outside the carefully constructed narrative that the Kremlin desires. If you don't have the balls to tell him, I will.

As for sale signs, are you trying to say with a straight face that high end stores in upscale Moscow malls constantly advertise 50 to 70% off as part of their marketing strategy? No, I give you credit for more intelligence that such. Upscale mall stores are not part of the "Fix" chain where everything inside is 49 rubles (Russia's answer to America's 99 cent outlets).

I agree however that Russians will continue to support Putin. And of course, the economy today, as bad as it is, is still (as the TV reminds us), better than the aforementioned time period. I too recall when there were no ducks or fish left in the Moscow river.

[Belvis]

Belvis, I didn't write about a "liberal" but you instantly decided to label a Russian businessman as such without knowledge of who he is in person.

I did not mean a Russian businessman, I meant your views which are very stereotyped and familar in  certain social circles in Moscow. I think you have а wide network  of acquaintances  densely confined within a non representative class. Our environment inevitably affects us and forms the perception of life.
And I don't consider the term "liberal" as a lable. It's just as it is, and pretty accurate.

I too recall when there were no ducks or fish left in the Moscow river.

No, you did not live in Moscow when there were no ducks or fish.  Moreover, you did not live in the provincial russian towns 10-15 years ago so it's rather hard for you to grasp why Russians  support Putin.

[mendeleyev]

Belvis, thank you for defining when and where I've lived. :-)

You do a nice job of deflecting subjects however. I hope that you are paid well.

[sleepycat]

The bosses at the kremlin troll factory making the staff work even over the New Years/Christmas period?
 

[fathertime]

FT, we agree on the US funding of what has morphed into ISIS. Benghazi was a key in the transfer of US arms to so called "rebels" in the region.

 .

Here is Assad speaking recently.  He hits the nail on the head regarding US involvement and destruction. 



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