The Russian/Syrian connection thread

[2tallbill]

Putin has once again full on slapped Obama in the face-made a mockery of him- and by extension the US and NATO.

I'm surprised that Obama hasn't sent John Kerry to Russia to surrender and give back
Alaska (they vote Republican)

[Miquel Westano]

I'm surprised that Obama hasn't sent John Kerry to Russia to surrender and give back
Alaska (they vote Republican)

Wow, that has probably not occurred to them.  I hope they don't read that, Bill.  I can see it now, the "commander and chief" decides the contract was invalid, the supreme court backs up his opinion and barry hands them the state.  Boom, one less red state for the dems to deal with.

[Faux Pas]

If you read through his blog, you will notice that he is willing to debate ideas, including with other academics.

He also predicted, in 2005, almost exactly what has happened.

Obama is smart, no doubt about it.  I think he also sees the toxicity of the US dependence on Middle Eastern oil.

In the end, much of the Middle East's instability can be traced back to Saudi Arabia, which funds the most severe, and repressive form of Islam in existence.  It is not mainstream, but they certainly want it to become so.

You're giving Obama way too much credit. It didn't take a scholar or brain surgeon to see what would happen in the Middle East once the dictators were deposed. Obama played a big part in that. I do agree with you about Saudi Arabia though except since the 70's The House of Saud's arch enemy Iran has been the bigger player the Middle East strife

[Gator]

Well, I posted earlier that the Russians being in Syria was strategically maybe the best means to finally bring the West into Russia's war of aggression for real.

Let's revue...

1) Russia conducts air strikes this morning not on IS but Syrian rebels fighting Assad at Assad's request completely contrary to what Putin agreed to at the UN just days ago. 

Not surprising because in the past year 94% of Assad's operations were directed at the opposition and not ISIS.  The entry of Russia suggests Assad was on the run and would soon fall, creating even more havoc because the opposition groups are far from unified.

2) Russian General walks into Bagdad US Embassy and declares get your aircraft out of Syrian air space, we're conducting airstrikes within the hour.

The translation later sent to the Pentagon included the word "polshasta."  LOL

Putin has once again full on slapped Obama in the face-made a mockery of him- and by extension the US and NATO.

Will this be allowed to stand? Where is the West's leadership?...Truly 1938 Europe all over again. The more we back away the more general war becomes inevitable.

This morning I saw an interview with Kerry who called Russia's involvement an "opportunity."  What the hell! 

While libertarians support Obama's lack of direct involvement in international conflicts, this is an example of the fact  somebody will always fill the vacuum and that someone may have plans that are not in the best interests of the US.  The "someone" is Putin teaming with Obama's new friend Iran.    Project this to 2-3 years from now.   I bet the Saudi are shitting in their pants today with Europeans feeling  some gas in their GI tract.   And the Israelis. 

[2tallbill]

Obama is smart, no doubt about it.  I think he also sees the toxicity of the US dependence on Middle Eastern oil.

He might see the toxicity of Middle East oil, but his policies totally make Middle East
oil necessary. Canadians mostly like Americans and almost none of them chant Death
to America (except during hockey games). Obama's policies everything from refusing
to allow the XL pipeline to hampering US crude production to trying to destroy various
fossil fuel industries foster relying on Middle East oil.

My good friend and old room mate was the valedictorian of Obama's high school class
in Hawaii doesn't think Obama is nearly as bright as you do.

[2tallbill]

Not surprising because in the past year 94% of Assad's operations were directed at the opposition and not ISIS.  The entry of Russia suggests Assad was on the run and would soon fall, creating even more havoc because the opposition groups are far from unified.

My question, were the 94% of operations against others because he wanted them
killed more? or because ISIS was too strong to prevail against?

[Muzh]

I've noticed that when you have a POTUS who is trigger-happy, he is the most intelligent, astute, compassionate, God-like, leader this country has had.


Bill, I guess you are right, this is the most violent society in the world. 

[2tallbill]

I've noticed that when you have a POTUS who is trigger-happy, he is the most intelligent, astute, compassionate, God-like, leader this country has had.


Bill, I guess you are right, this is the most violent society in the world. 

I've written a hundred times that George W Bush was at best a mediocre president.
You can't find a single post of mine in any thread on any forum making ANY of the
claims in your post and I won't vote for Jeb if he gets nominated.

[Muzh]

I've written a hundred times that George W Bush was at best a mediocre president.
You can't find a single post of mine in any thread on any forum making ANY of the
claims in your post and I won't vote for Jeb if he gets nominated.

Sorry, I never mentioned W. I was referring to Cheney. 

[Muzh]

Putin's New Axis of Resistance

Despite the stark realities on the ground in Ukraine—undisputed by all except those who openly support or work for the Kremlin or those who have no familiarity with the facts—the fighting has decreased since this new ceasefire, and Russia is once again engaging with the international community, some of which is hailing this false “peace” as a victory for diplomatic relations with Moscow.

(I'm not singling anyone here FT.    )


http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/09/28/putin-s-new-axis-of-resistance-russia-iran-iraq-syria-and-hezbollah.html

[Gator]

My question, were the 94% of operations against others because he wanted them
killed more? or because ISIS was too strong to prevail against?

I haven't followed the conflict(s) in Syria.  The situation is very complicated.  I need a better Program w/ Scorecard and the participants need uniforms (with numbers). 

I would venture Assad hit the opposition  groups because they are  closer to Damascus and Syrian government frontlines.  Most groups other than the Kurds and Al-Nusrah  are  in northwestern Syria and parts of southwestern Syria.   ISIS is more entrenched in the center and southern parts of Syria, farther from Assad's troops than opposition groups..

Russia in defending the Syrian government will do the same other than a few strikes against ISIS for "eyewash" PR. 

[fathertime]

Putin's New Axis of Resistance



(I'm not singling anyone here FT.    )


http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/09/28/putin-s-new-axis-of-resistance-russia-iran-iraq-syria-and-hezbollah.html

Thanks for the article, and the mention! 


Obviously Russian policy isn't angelic either, and worthy of criticism as well....but I believe we here in the USA are mistaken if we believe we are angels running around the planet trying to make everything right....which tends to be the tone on many issues here.  Kinda like that expression you mentioned in the other thread..."I'm ok, but you are not".  Many are critical of other nations,  while giving ours a free pass, or at least don't fully acknowledge our own contribution to the messes of the planet. 


Fathertime! 

[fathertime]

Even I who nobody would call an Obamapologist thought that that they wouldn't waste
those kind of resources. Bimbobama and his regime are even more inept than I would
have ever believed.

Well Bill, I don't think we really spent 500 million on that training for 54 people.  I think we semi intentionally let the weapons fall in the hands of rebels against Assad. If that is the case, then it was stupid, but not for the reason you are thinking.  If indeed you are correct, then yes, it would be completely inept.

Obama owns ISIS, but I wasn't under the impression that he was escalating it. It's
been my impression that he lobs a couple of bombs at the problem twice a week and
ignores it. He cares far more to waste vast sums of money on Global warming and to
create thousands of pages of regulations on everything under the sun.

He really doesn't care what happens there except to the extent that it interferes with
his other crap. 

Well if indeed Obama/our country owns ISIS, then it speaks to the destruction and corruption we (The US) are supporting.  I don't know if we 'own ISIS', but I don't believe for a moment we have been truly trying to take them out, because I'm convinced if we wanted that, we could have achieved whittling them down significantly.  The big media mostly reports what they get from our govt. which is mostly untruths. 


Fathertime!     

[jone]

Well Bill, I don't think we really spent 500 million on that training for 54 people.  I think we semi intentionally let the weapons fall in the hands of rebels against Assad. If that is the case, then it was stupid, but not for the reason you are thinking.  If indeed you are correct, then yes, it would be completely inept.



Well if indeed Obama/our country owns ISIS, then it speaks to the destruction and corruption we (The US) are supporting.  I don't know if we 'own ISIS', but I don't believe for a moment we have been truly trying to take them out, because I'm convinced if we wanted that, we could have achieved whittling them down significantly.  The big media mostly reports what they get from our govt. which is mostly untruths. 


Fathertime!     

Instead of the great and powerful Oz, we have, here on this Forum, the Not-So-Great and Powerless Cynic.  Is there anything your country does that you do like?  Or are you just down in your smelly little hole wondering why everyone around holds their nose when they walk by feeling betrayed by the governmental people who lie all the time because they are doing such nefarious things?

[fathertime]

Instead of the great and powerful Oz, we have, here on this Forum, the Not-So-Great and Powerless Cynic.  Is there anything your country does that you do like?  Or are you just down in your smelly little hole wondering why everyone around holds their nose when they walk by feeling betrayed by the governmental people who lie all the time because they are doing such nefarious things?

....and you are the very first one to complain when attacked personally....but as the record shows are of course  the 1st to throw stones of that nature.....


You would like to cover up our misdeeds while criticizing Russia, often incorrectly.  You would like to turn the issue black and white, and act as if Russia's actions are in a vacuum.  You are just covering up the USA's contributions to the battlefields of the world....which is inaccurate and self-serving.


Fathertime! 

[2tallbill]

Well Bill, I don't think we really spent 500 million on that training for 54 people.  I think we semi intentionally let the weapons fall in the hands of rebels against Assad. If that is the case, then it was stupid, but not for the reason you are thinking.  If indeed you are correct, then yes, it would be completely inept.

If team Obama intentionally let weapons fall into the hands of rebels against Assad
then I don't know why they don't just say so. It sounds less incompetent than saying
we spend 9 million per person then most of them quit.

Well if indeed Obama/our country owns ISIS, then it speaks to the destruction and corruption we (The US) are supporting.  I don't know if we 'own ISIS', but I don't believe for a moment we have been truly trying to take them out, because I'm convinced if we wanted that, we could have achieved whittling them down significantly.  The big media mostly reports what they get from our govt. which is mostly untruths. 


Fathertime!     

I say Obama owns ISIS in respect that he created the problem. He owns the problem.
I don't think that the problem of ISIS is very high on Obama's list of priorities.

[2tallbill]

Putin signs decree drafting 150,000 conscripts into the Russian military... as his jets launch new wave of air strikes in Syria


Russia launches second day of bombing runs on rebel groups in Syria
Putin's Chechen ally calls on Moscow to deploy Muslim troops against ISIS
Kremlin accused of targeting moderate rebels backed by U.S and not ISIS
Moscow foreign minister Lavrov rejected the 'rumours' as 'unfounded'
Hundreds of Iranian and Hezbollah troops 'set to launch ground offensive' 



Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3255876/Russia-pouring-gasoline-fire-Syria-s-civil-war-says-America-Putin-defies-West-drops-bombs-non-ISIS-forces-fighting-Assad.html#ixzz3nKZ5qH8C

[2tallbill]

Assad allies, including Iranians, prepare ground attack in Syria
BEIRUT | BY LAILA BASSAM Reuters

Hundreds of Iranian troops have arrived in Syria in the last 10 days and will soon join
government forces and their Lebanese Hezbollah allies in a major ground offensive backed
by Russian air strikes, two Lebanese sources told Reuters.

"The (Russian) air strikes will in the near future be accompanied by ground advances by
the Syrian army and its allies," said one of the sources familiar with political and military developments in the conflict.

"It is possible that the coming land operations will be focused in the Idlib and Hama
countryside," the source added.

read all about it here
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/01/us-mideast-crisis-syria-iranians-idUSKCN0RV4DN20151001

[jone]

You would like to cover up our misdeeds while criticizing Russia, often incorrectly.  You would like to turn the issue black and white, and act as if Russia's actions are in a vacuum.  You are just covering up the USA's contributions to the battlefields of the world....which is inaccurate and self-serving.
Fathertime!

I guess we can take that as a big 'no' on having anything supportive to say of the US.  My guess is that you never served in your country's military, either.  Just a guess.

Come on.  Surprise us.  Tell us something that you are proud of - being an American. 

 

[ML]

I wonder how Western and Russian forces can tell the difference between who they are attacking . . . Syrian military, those fighting Syrian government, ISIS.

Just shoot at anyone who is darker than you are, or wearing a head-dress.

[Brasscasing]

I wonder how Western and Russian forces can tell the difference between who they are attacking . . . Syrian military, those fighting Syrian government, ISIS.

...The guys with American supplied weapons and equipment are Syrian freedom fighters, the guys with the stolen American supplied weapons and equipment are ISIL and the guys running for cover behind the Russians are Assad's government troops. 

Brass

[fathertime]

I guess we can take that as a big 'no' on having anything supportive to say of the US.  My guess is that you never served in your country's military, either.  Just a guess.

Come on.  Surprise us.  Tell us something that you are proud of - being an American. 

 

This topic is about Syria, which we didn't need to involve ourselves with....my belief is our contributions have made the situation worse for the people there and we have done this on their backs to gain some not completely understood strategic advantage.  Obviously you would like to dance around that subject and lay blame everywhere else.  Pattern in your life? Just guessing.

If you would like to continue your glad handing or talk about such things as U.S. Beaches, babes, ballparks there are other places for that conversation. 

Fathertime!

[Gator]

This topic is about Syria, which we didn't need to involve ourselves with....my belief is our contributions have made the situation worse for the people there and we have done this on their backs to gain some not completely understood strategic advantage. 

You are missing the point, a very important point.  We did NOT involve ourselves in any significant manner.  That is why Russia moved in.  We were just talk and diplomacy. 

When was the last time Russia had any significant involvement in the Middle East?  1972. 

That has now changed with America's withdrawal.  Thus, after 40 years of having little influence, Obama has allowed Russia and their friend Iran to usurp our leadership role. It will not stop with Syria.  The two will expand their presence beyond Syria.

Now answer this question please.  Will Russia and Iran do a better job of  helping to make life better for countries and peoples of the Middle East?

Do you feel more comfortable with Russia and Iran taking the leadership role in Middle East affairs?

[2tallbill]

That has now changed with America's withdrawal.  Thus, after 40 years of having little influence, Obama has allowed Russia and their friend Iran to usurp our leadership role. It will not stop with Syria.  The two will expand their presence beyond Syria.

It's already going to encompass Iran, Iraq and Syria. Iran has attacked Yemen with
surrogates. What country is between Yemen, Iraq and Syria? Don't forget that Team
Obama/Hillary turned Egypt against us and they turned Libya into a bloodbath

So let's look at the map and consider what Russia might potentially control. Saudi
Arabia hates Iran. Why wouldn't Iran want Saudi Arabia as well? they have it
surrounded.

[fathertime]

You are missing the point, a very important point.  We did NOT involve ourselves in any significant manner.  That is why Russia moved in.  We were just talk and diplomacy. 

We *the US* have supplied weapons, we have bombed.  That doesn't sound like something insignificant at all.  We continued to do our part to keep the civil war going.  We (and other western nations) had no business in Syria to begin with.  In addition to what we *the public* do know, there is probably a lot of support we don't know about.  I was surprised it took Russia this long to make their move...they could have hopped in a few years ago...and probably should have.  It is hilarious listening to the news on the radio today, and hearing the 'surprised' voices cry out that Russia is bombing the moderate rebels and protecting Assad, of course they are protecting Assad, and why would that be a surprise?

 

That has now changed with America's withdrawal.  Thus, after 40 years of having little influence, Obama has allowed Russia and their friend Iran to usurp our leadership role. It will not stop with Syria.  The two will expand their presence beyond Syria.

Now answer this question please.  Will Russia and Iran do a better job of  helping to make life better for countries and peoples of the Middle East?

Do you feel more comfortable with Russia and Iran taking the leadership role in Middle East affairs?

Independent nations can make their own choices, and if they 'want a friend' and choose Iran, Russia, or even the US then that is one thing....but it isn't up to us to force a very bloody regime change to gain advantage, and if we do, then we are not in any position to cry out when another nation does something similar. 
As to your question, I don't think lives will be any worse then they have been in recent years...I don't know how many we have helped kill in the middle east but it might be a million or more...If Russia were to take the lead in the middle east it would be because we have done such a piss poor job over 2 decades...it is ok with me if they have more influence, but I don't' believe for a moment any of the large Hegemonic nations is taking over the entire middle east anyway. 


Fathertime!