Questions FROM Russian Woman :)

[Larry1]

How about those voracious pussy-eating Australians? 

Rumor has it that one or more of those that inhabit this very forum go down under.

[GatoMoon]

If her FSU boyfriend is living with the family and doesn't drink then yes, his salary will be given to his wife to run the household.  That includes feeding her parents, if they are living with them.  This is the most common way families operate in Ukraine.

Her question is about her moving to USA

[Boethius]

Most American men would not have an issue with sending a few hundred dollars to their wives' relatives.  If a man is that cheap, he shouldn't seek a third world bride.

[Boethius]

I also find it rather ironic that on the one hand, men go on and on about the "family values" of FSUW, yet want women to discard those "family values" that don't conform with their own warped ideas of what's important in life.

[alex330]

If her FSU boyfriend is living with the family and doesn't drink then yes, his salary will be given to his wife to run the household.  That includes feeding her parents, if they are living with them.  This is the most common way families operate in Ukraine.

Yes, this is how many families including my wife's dealt with finances in Ukraine. If the married couple live with extended family the boyfriend or husband will even hand over salary to his wife or even mother in law.

200$ that's my salary per month. (yes, per month, and no, one zero is not missing)
Usually it's even less than this.  Most of this money (like 150-160$) I give to my parents who are on pension (both). Average retiring pension in Ukraine is 1500 hryvnias = 64 dollars. Per month. Most of family budgetis spent to pay utilities (heating, electricity etc) and to buy food. And that's quite typical financial situation in my country, we are quite an average family, we don't live in poverty, don't starve etc.  I live in capital, the situation in small rural cities is worse (though they spend less too)

SO if I leave country for my man, I leave my family with 128 $ to live on. Not much, right?
That's why your spouse might need money to help her family before she gets the possibility to work herself and sent this money from what she has earned.

That was just my example, and I am sure there are families who live much much worse than my family does.

These are very accurate numbers for many women and families we know in Ukraine. In many cases the woman who is being courted by a Western man may be the breadwinner for her family. This is something you will need to take into account and help with when she leaves.

[GatoMoon]

Most American men would not have an issue with sending a few hundred dollars to their wives' relatives.  If a man is that cheap, he shouldn't seek a third world bride.

You are missing the point !!  Do American men send to AMERICAN wives' relatives ????  In your quote, if a man is cheap, he shouldn't seek bride ANYWHERE in the world, including his own country! 

[JayH]

Yes, and wear sun screen lotion.   Many RW I knew avoided sun between 10 am and 3 pm. 

I understand the distance from the sun is significantly shorter in NZ vs. the States.  Nevertheless,  regarding the initiation of skin cancer, I thought the different natural  immunities of various peoples to skin cancer was more important rather than  the locale.   

Solar radiation will mutate cells,  and some people's immune system performs better in destroying the mutated cells before the initiation of cancer.   Thus, an unprotected Northern European in NZ has a higher probability of getting skin cancer than say someone from the Med.  What is the difference in incidence between Mauri people and NZeders descended from British stock?

Gator--there is a hole in the ozone layer that cover Australasia ( ie Aus % NZ -- as the area had a traditional name) -- so the net effect is that the burning rays are far stronger down here than in other parts of the world.
Part of that gives people are more aged skin--unlike the pristine skin of many in the northern EU countries.That EU skin--even those that tan nicely in EU summer--will be burnt raw in Aus in a few hours unprotected in the sun.It is actually very hard to tell people the risk they are taking in the sun--even a modest temperature day ( eg 20C /70F) can burn--let alone a 40C day!!
Australians led the world in creating powerful sunblocks,hats and clothing that are worn as a matter of course by schoolchildren to compulsory clothing for outdoor workers sun protection.
As to who has the worst incidence of skin cancers-- the fact that it is very high numbers here is enough-- without getting into a silly debate about Colorada incidence(we also have high country in AUS--and my guess is NZ has more skiing than Colorada!!--- and all under a hole in the ozone layer--btw--I do not know if that hole extends to NZ fwiw).

As an anecdotal aside--I have the type of skin that most believe burns easily--I have spent a huge number of hours exposed to the sun-- plus many hours in northern hemisphere  sun exposed-there is no comparison with the burning aspect.

In summary-- the Aus sun will burn most raw-regardless of skin colour to start with.

[JayH]

Yes, this is how many families including my wife's dealt with finances in Ukraine. If the married couple live with extended family the boyfriend or husband will even hand over salary to his wife or even mother in law.

These are very accurate numbers for many women and families we know in Ukraine. In many cases the woman who is being courted by a Western man may be the breadwinner for her family. This is something you will need to take into account and help with when she leaves.

Well said Sasha ( & others in this thread that added to how income &money is managed)
Not enough has been written previously on these issues.Guys searching need to be aware of these issues-- and it has zero to do with being scammed.
What is different to the west is that the chances are you are going to meet a girl who has responsibilities that she has accepted-- and is not about to abandon.
In the west- chances are a girls family is independent of that type of responsibility.

Currently--Ukraine is in a very difficult position-- costs & prices have escalated dramatically and continue rising-- so for most of the population it is a huge battle to make ends meet.This situation is likely to take years to improve( it will get better-but it will take time).

Now in saying all that--it does not mean that a guy can "buy" a girl-- so forget that! While MrsB sees western guys economic advantage as a bad thing--it is also a fact of life in favour of why a girl is entertaining the idea of a western guy in the first place.I am also generalising here and not account for extreme exceptions.

[Betelgeuse]

Most American men would not have an issue with sending a few hundred dollars to their wives' relatives.  If a man is that cheap, he shouldn't seek a third world bride.

Just don't tell your girl she lives in a third world country, she probably won't like it 

[2tallbill]

So have I convinced you that She is not a gold-digger if she wants to help her family (which she has left to be with You)?

When you ask questions, some of the advice you receive will be good and some
of the advice will not be as good. Use the best advice and ignore the rest.

Udachi!

Bill

[Faux Pas]

You are missing the point !!  Do American men send to AMERICAN wives' relatives ????  In your quote, if a man is cheap, he shouldn't seek bride ANYWHERE in the world, including his own country!

If marrying an American woman takes a significant bite out of her families finances then yes, the chap should continue to contribute financially to the family. It is then "his" family as well.

I had already decided in my mind that I would send money to my wife's mother before even discussing it with anyone. My wife contributed greatly to the household of her and her mother. My MIL, being the proud and resourceful person she is wouldn't hear of it. In fact, has sent me money. We do everything we can for her but have to do most of it covertly through the SIL and even then it pisses the MIL off if she knows we spent money on her. There is nothing she would not do for us, nor nothing we would not do for her (or SIL) because, we're all family.

[Boethius]

You are missing the point !!  Do American men send to AMERICAN wives' relatives ????  In your quote, if a man is cheap, he shouldn't seek bride ANYWHERE in the world, including his own country!

No, I am not missing the point.  Americans, culturally, do not support their parents.  Ukrainians do.

[Boethius]

Just don't tell your girl she lives in a third world country, she probably won't like it 

I don't have a girl (other than my daughter). 


I lived in Ukraine, speak Ukrainian fluently, have Ukrainian relatives, and am aware of how the average Ukrainian lives.  "Third world" may be a bit archaic, but I can't even, in good faith, call Ukraine a "developing" nation.  It has an elite that have stolen everything that isn't nailed down and lives largely above the law, much of its infrastructure has crumbled, and it does not respect its most precious asset, its human capital.  Polls consistently show that over half the population would emigrate, if given the opportunity.  That is not a happy situation, and as someone of Ukrainian descent, all of the foregoing breaks my heart.

[ML]

Americans, culturally, do not support their parents.  Ukrainians do.

In USA, all changed after the institution of Social Security and other welfare measures.

My mother and father both came from very large families.  11 and 12 children.  These children all kicked in money to support their parents (my grandparents) who were subsistence farmers.

At one point, back in 1950s, these children made a lump sum payment into the Social Security fund for their parents.  Thereafter, the parents began to draw Social Security payments.  The children continued to support their parents, but at a reduced level after that.

Today, virtually no USA children help support their parents, simply because it is not needed due to Social Security, work related pensions, 401K and 403b plans, etc.

I do continue to help my parents.  Not so much with month to month expenses, but with large purchases such as autos, TV, hearing aids, stoves, air conditioners, new roof, remodeling, etc.

In my world wide travels, I often encountered locals who proclaimed their citizens were superior to USA citizens because of their care for parents.

But they were missing the main point.  They were doing it out of necessity, not because they were morally superior.

[Wayne]

If you read the consitution of Ukraine (which you can find translated into English) you will see that it is a legal responsibility of adult children to help care for their retired parents.

[2tallbill]

I also find it rather ironic that on the one hand, men go on and on about the "family values" of FSUW, yet want women to discard those "family values" that don't conform with their own warped ideas of what's important in life.

I think that you would find that most men, especially here at the forum don't have a problem
sending a few dollars home to Mamma EXCEPT before meeting in person. A foreign wife
has enough to worry about adjusting to a new life, in a new culture, in a new land with a new
language without any of her friends and family present without having to worry if Mamma is
skipping a couple meals per week to save money.

[2tallbill]

I couldn't modify my previous post

[edit to add]

I now see you've noted this already

[Betelgeuse]

I lived in Ukraine, speak Ukrainian fluently, have Ukrainian relatives, and am aware of how the average Ukrainian lives.  "Third world" may be a bit archaic, but I can't even, in good faith, call Ukraine a "developing" nation.  It has an elite that have stolen everything that isn't nailed down and lives largely above the law, much of its infrastructure has crumbled, and it does not respect its most precious asset, its human capital.  Polls consistently show that over half the population would emigrate, if given the opportunity.  That is not a happy situation, and as someone of Ukrainian descent, all of the foregoing breaks my heart.

I am not saying Ukraine is NOT a third world country (though personally I don't think it is, but in comparison to other Western countries this seems to be not so far from truth). The point is that we love our country with all its imperfections. And I would be extremely offended if someone called Ukraine like that.

As Pushkin said, "Я, конечно, презираю отечество мое с головы до ног — но мне досадно, если иностранец разделяет со мною это чувство. " - I absolutely despise my Motherland, but it annoys me when a foreigner feels the same for my country.

 

[jone]

In USA, all changed after the institution of Social Security and other welfare measures.

My mother and father both came from very large families.  11 and 12 children.  These children all kicked in money to support their parents (my grandparents) who were subsistence farmers.

At one point, back in 1950s, these children made a lump sum payment into the Social Security fund for their parents.  Thereafter, the parents began to draw Social Security payments.  The children continued to support their parents, but at a reduced level after that.

Today, virtually no USA children help support their parents, simply because it is not needed due to Social Security, work related pensions, 401K and 403b plans, etc.

I do continue to help my parents.  Not so much with month to month expenses, but with large purchases such as autos, TV, hearing aids, stoves, air conditioners, new roof, remodeling, etc.

In my world wide travels, I often encountered locals who proclaimed their citizens were superior to USA citizens because of their care for parents.

But they were missing the main point.  They were doing it out of necessity, not because they were morally superior.

You forgot tattoos.

[Boethius]

I am not saying Ukraine is NOT a third world country (though personally I don't think it is, but in comparison to other Western countries this seems to be not so far from truth). The point is that we love our country with all its imperfections. And I would be extremely offended if someone called Ukraine like that.As Pushkin said, "Я, конечно, презираю отечество мое с головы до ног — но мне досадно, если иностранец разделяет со мною это чувство. " - I absolutely despise my Motherland, but it annoys me when a foreigner feels the same for my country. 

Noted. But it is true.  


My husband is from Kyiv (and is probably the only Russian who can't stand Pushkin).  He says even worse things about Ukraine than I do. 

[jone]

I am not saying Ukraine is NOT a third world country (though personally I don't think it is, but in comparison to other Western countries this seems to be not so far from truth). The point is that we love our country with all its imperfections. And I would be extremely offended if someone called Ukraine like that.

As Pushkin said, "Я, конечно, презираю отечество мое с головы до ног — но мне досадно, если иностранец разделяет со мною это чувство. " - I absolutely despise my Motherland, but it annoys me when a foreigner feels the same for my country.

 

Who is this Pushkin?

[Betelgeuse]

Who is this Pushkin?

just random Russian guy

[jone]

Welcome to the Forum.

 

[ML]

You forgot tattoos.

No money given for tattoos.

And thankfully, no money paid to REMOVE tattoos.

[JayH]

I don't have a girl (other than my daughter). 


I lived in Ukraine, speak Ukrainian fluently, have Ukrainian relatives, and am aware of how the average Ukrainian lives.  "Third world" may be a bit archaic, but I can't even, in good faith, call Ukraine a "developing" nation.  It has an elite that have stolen everything that isn't nailed down and lives largely above the law, much of its infrastructure has crumbled, and it does not respect its most precious asset, its human capital.  Polls consistently show that over half the population would emigrate, if given the opportunity.  That is not a happy situation, and as someone of Ukrainian descent, all of the foregoing breaks my heart.

Betelguese-  I can guarantee MrsB has her heart in the right place( & I also know she does not need me to endorse her comments!!)  Unfortunately-her comments above are all to real-- perhaps I am more optimistic about the future in the longer term--but a key to that is recognising the past ills and moving forward.

I also understood your "dont tell your girl" comment.I have become a huge admirer of Ukrainian patriotism and pride-I was in Ukraine for a large part of last year and for many months this year--  and have seen first hand the expanded national pride( it was there prior to last year- but became much more universal and directed ) !!!

 I commented elsewhere that I have seen a very large part of Ukraine-- and that includes a lot of towns and villages outside of the major cities.In many ways-I have seen more of Ukraine than a lot of Ukrainians !  So-- parts of it are  like a 3rd world country-- and as MrsB said above- I also bleed emotionally to see this.

 To be noted-I have often pointed out to newcomers the sophistication of the bigger cities and lifestyle-which is all a lot of visitors will ever see.