Interesting Situation

[russellarnold]

Ok guys, these forums have been very useful. I have learnt a lot. So I decided to share my experience so far.

Met a girl one year ago, visited a few times spent considerable time together so far. Everything sounded good so far. There was one red flag earlier in the relationship. Apartment broken into , need some money to get very good locks. She shared some pictures. Looked authentic based on a break in into my apartment. Sent her the money and she got some new locks. Took many pictures while they were putting the locks and she shared with me. Forgot about it and moved on. Very educated girl, in a good job, atleast I thought no need to commit fraud etc.....

So after one year of knowing the person, decided to take the plunge and get married. Sent her the documents, limited power of attorney for marriage, marriage application. She volunteered that there is no need for me to come down to submit the application and she will take care of it. So, we started planning for marriage and honey moon.

She comes back to me and says that the translation of each document is 45 dollars and she needs 765 dollars to get it done. That price was outrageous. I googled and found many providers charging from 1-4 dollars per page or 4 cents per word etc. There could be something even cheaper for a local person. I asked her for an explanation and she mentioned that her office (Govt) uses this agency and they charge 45 dollars and hence she suggested the same to me.

I'm a little pissed off as this was a shocker to me.  The price is 10-40 times more expensive. She asked for 765 dollars. This happened a couple of days ago. As we all know, everyone on this forum can afford 765 dollars. That is not a problem for the right purpose. Is this a red flag ? Or the beginning of some BS ? I have  maintained my composure with her and not shown any signs that I'm doubting her.


I know sometimes on these forums, you can be ridiculed for posting genuine experiences so that others can learn from it. So, I'm posting this at the cost of my ego and risk of personal attacks. 

[alex330]

No ridicule. It sounds very suspicious on the surface man....

If each page needs to be official with a seal or stamp then I am sure it will be more than a couple bucks though. I do not recall  offhand but wife paid maybe $15 for one page that had been officially done?

[russellarnold]

No ridicule. It sounds very suspicious on the surface man....

If each page needs to be official with a seal or stamp then I am sure it will be more than a couple bucks though. I do not recall  offhand but wife paid maybe $15 for one page that had been officially done?

Thanks for sharing your experience. Would be great if you can confirm with your wife and post here.

Also, experienced members , please share if the pricing is reasonable.......

[alex330]

I just called her (she is out of town currently) and she says she does not recall exactly but it was around $100 for official translations. That was for college diploma, police record, vaccinations, passport, etc. The basic documents. This was five years ago so take that into consideration.

When I told her your cost of $765 she said the girl is lying to you. No way it is that much. Of course maybe the service is ripping her off, but someone seems to be overcharging.

[russellarnold]

I just called her (she is out of town currently) and she says she does not recall exactly but it was around $100 for official translations. That was for college diploma, police record, vaccinations, passport, etc. The basic documents. This was five years ago so take that into consideration.

When I told her your cost of $765 she said the girl is lying to you. No way it is that much. Of course maybe the service is ripping her off, but someone seems to be overcharging.

sincerely appreciate your help. 

[mendeleyev]

Russell, first off make sure you know exactly what is needed for documentation:
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=20043.0


Next, the pricing does seem over the top but I would not be hasty to label her as dishonest. The biggest question is whether this is part of a pattern?

Some time ago I came home to find Mrs. Mendeleyeva in tears. After a fender bender she had taken the car to a repair shop and they had seen her coming. The estimate to repair the car was almost enough to buy a new car, and her car is only 4 years old. The next day I went with her to the shop, and amazingly they suddenly realized that they had vastly over estimated our portion of the cost of repairs. We called the insurance company and were given a different shop authorization.

Talk to her about your concerns--it could be that she is being played. If not, then you should delve into communication and trust issues before finalizing the marriage.

[russellarnold]

Russell, first off make sure you know exactly what is needed for documentation:
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=20043.0


Next, the pricing does seem over the top but I would not be hasty to label her as dishonest. The biggest question is whether this is part of a pattern?

Some time ago I came home to find Mrs. Mendeleyeva in tears. After a fender bender she had taken the car to a repair shop and they had seen her coming. The estimate to repair the car was almost enough to buy a new car, and her car is only 4 years old. The next day I went with her to the shop, and amazingly they suddenly realized that they had vastly over estimated our portion of the cost of repairs. We called the insurance company and were given a different shop authorization.

Talk to her about your concerns--it could be that she is being played. If not, then you should delve into communication and trust issues before finalizing the marriage.

Fairpoint.

She made it a little worse . When I suggested her the alternate options, she asked me to email them and get all the info and she refused to do it herself. Not sure, if she insisted on this because her ego was hurt or "something else". I know she has a lot of self pride in general. But in this case, it is not helping........

[alex330]

Next, the pricing does seem over the top but I would not be hasty to label her as dishonest.

Agree with the above. I would tread lightly.

When I suggested her the alternate options, she asked me to email them and get all the info and she refused to do it herself. Not sure, if she insisted on this because her ego was hurt or "something else". I know she has a lot of self pride in general. .

Welcome to dating FSUW. Sounds pretty normal 

[mendeleyev]

Trust is so important, and that works both ways.

You don't sound like a cheapskate, and it makes me wonder whether she has completely communicated the wedding costs to you. Is she trying to "pad" something now for another expense that has gone over budget? First, I'd make certain that you are one the same page in understanding what the expenses are for the ZAGS (or RAGS in Ukraine), her dress, wedding party, flowers, transportation, hair salon, etc. Those will be much less than in the West, but they still do cost something and it is reasonable (and customary) for you to foot the bulk of that event.

It would be a shame if she didn't trust you to fully provide, and thus leading you not to trust her to be transparent. In general, most good FSU ladies take great pride in managing family finances and seem to enjoy opportunities to save when family finances are in play. As Ronalld Reagan liked to say when dealing with the Soviets, "trust but verify." Perhaps it is a good time to communicate with her and take the verification step.

[cc3]

Is your fiancee in Russia or Ukraine? I was just married, in Ukraine, two months ago. I estimate the total cost of fees, translations, copies, and notary services, including preparing for Temporary Residence Permit application, to have been less than $100 (and that includes my required one year 'health insurance' premium).

[Belvis]

There was one red flag earlier in the relationship. Apartment broken into , need some money to get very good locks. She shared some pictures. Looked authentic based on a break in into my apartment. Sent her the money and she got some new locks. Took many pictures while they were putting the locks and she shared with me.

  Indeed, a negligible chunk of money to count it the fraud. I guess you're not the only guy who  subsidizes the repairment of her flat.
  The standard cost of certified translation English/Russian in Moscow roughly 5.5-6 $/page, plus a cost of notarization (if required) 10-20 $ per a document.

It was a good advice: if FSU woman asked any money, even very small sum even for compelling reasons, thas't the early sign of seriuos troubles in future.

[russellarnold]

Is your fiancee in Russia or Ukraine? I was just married, in Ukraine, two months ago. I estimate the total cost of fees, translations, copies, and notary services, including preparing for Temporary Residence Permit application, to have been less than $100 (and that includes my required one year 'health insurance' premium).

She lives in Kiev , Ukraine . Thanks for sharing your experience . Always helps to know the ground situation .

[russellarnold]

  Indeed, a negligible chunk of money to count it the fraud. I guess you're not the only guy who  subsidizes the repairment of her flat.
  The standard cost of certified translation English/Russian in Moscow roughly 5.5-6 $/page, plus a cost of notarization (if required) 10-20 $ per a document.

It was a good advice: if FSU woman asked any money, even very small sum even for compelling reasons, thas't the early sign of seriuos troubles in future.

I do respect your judgement .

In this case the only person that knows the truth is the girl . I have questions . I will give her opportunities to clear the air over this . It is upto her .
Until then I will reserve the judgement .

One thing that happened recently is the conversation we had after we decided to take the next step towards marriage . The girl wanted to know if it will cause any drain on my finances if she moves to the us and not work for a couple of years as her qualifications may or may not be recognized in the US . In the name of transparency and open communication , I shared details about my situation . Since then , I felt some change in her "expectations"  which have skyrocketed ....

[GatoMoon]

Russell Arnold

Have you met her yet?  Your avatar shows that you haven't make any trips

[russellarnold]

Russell Arnold

Have you met her yet?  Your avatar shows that you haven't make any trips

I created my profile yesterday . Did not update the profile .
Met her several times and lived under one roof for around 6 weeks .
So that is what makes it harder . I have seen the person 24/7.

[Faux Pas]

I created my profile yesterday . Did not update the profile .
Met her several times and lived under one roof for around 6 weeks .
So that is what makes it harder . I have seen the person 24/7.

Mendy has given you some pretty sage advice. You've made a few trips and you know this lady, somewhat. What do you think? My first guess is there is a communication gap of some sorts between the two of you. One or the both of you don't understand the other. Firstly, she's not scamming you. After a few trips and this is the first "flag" of any sort from her. If this is her first foray into international marriage she could be misled by others.

What you do at this point is continue to trust her send her the money and tell her, documents are not that expensive to get. Tell her she needs to look elsewhere for the documents. If you're getting a finance visa one can only assume you love her or think you do. This isn't worth ending a relationship but, as Belvis pointed out it might be a sign of things to come. It's an issue that needs to be addressed now rather than later.

You need to let her know that the amount of money for the documents is too high and unreasonable and you know this. You're in love but you're no chump. Send her the money, watch what she does with it without suspicion from you but, she's forewarned that you know.

7-800 bucks is only a drop in the bucket of future expenses and while you trust her, she needs to know that you're watching.

[Lily]

She comes back to me and says that the translation of each document is 45 dollars and she needs 765 dollars to get it done. That price was outrageous. I googled and found many providers charging from 1-4 dollars per page or 4 cents per word etc. There could be something even cheaper for a local person. I asked her for an explanation and she mentioned that her office (Govt) uses this agency and they charge 45 dollars and hence she suggested the same to me.

I'm a little pissed off as this was a shocker to me.  The price is 10-40 times more expensive. She asked for 765 dollars. This happened a couple of days ago. As we all know, everyone on this forum can afford 765 dollars. That is not a problem for the right purpose. Is this a red flag ? Or the beginning of some BS ? I have  maintained my composure with her and not shown any signs that I'm doubting her.

To me, it rather looks like the local authorities try to get the most out of her situation, and she may be just too shy to assert her rights. As a Russian person, I could tell that some of our women are chicken when it comes to confronting the authorities who learned how to act intimidating with people whose situation is not typical. At the same time, it may be the worst case with that woman, as you suggested. But my primary thought would be, they take advantage of her situation.

First, I heard that applying for marriage has to be only in person and not through a PoA, although my information about it may well be outdated. The rules may have changed since then.

Second, the state authorities must accept any translation into the official language that meets the statutory requirements. The fact that the office in question uses that particular provider only means that it is their recommendation, the usual practice, that's it.

[russellarnold]

Mendy has given you some pretty sage advice. You've made a few trips and you know this lady, somewhat. What do you think? My first guess is there is a communication gap of some sorts between the two of you. One or the both of you don't understand the other. Firstly, she's not scamming you. After a few trips and this is the first "flag" of any sort from her. If this is her first foray into international marriage she could be misled by others.

What you do at this point is continue to trust her send her the money and tell her, documents are not that expensive to get. Tell her she needs to look elsewhere for the documents. If you're getting a finance visa one can only assume you love her or think you do. This isn't worth ending a relationship but, as Belvis pointed out it might be a sign of things to come. It's an issue that needs to be addressed now rather than later.

You need to let her know that the amount of money for the documents is too high and unreasonable and you know this. You're in love but you're no chump. Send her the money, watch what she does with it without suspicion from you but, she's forewarned that you know.

7-800 bucks is only a drop in the bucket of future expenses and while you trust her, she needs to know that you're watching.

The lady is a straight shooter, very open. Let us see how it goes in the next few days .

Yes, miscommunication is a big problem in any long distance relationship. It is possible someone tried to rip her off as someone else suggested here.

[russellarnold]

To me, it rather looks like the local authorities try to get the most out of her situation, and she may be just too shy to assert her rights. As a Russian person, I could tell that some of our women are chicken when it comes to confronting the authorities who learned how to act intimidating with people whose situation is not typical. At the same time, it may be the worst case with that woman, as you suggested. But my primary thought would be, they take advantage of her situation.

First, I heard that applying for marriage has to be only in person and not through a PoA, although my information about it may well be outdated. The rules may have changed since then.

Second, the state authorities must accept any translation into the official language that meets the statutory requirements. The fact that the office in question uses that particular provider only means that it is their recommendation, the usual practice, that's it.

i hope you are right and the damage i might have done by asking questions is manageable.

[2tallbill]

Ok guys, these forums have been very useful. I have learnt a lot. So I decided to share my experience so far.

I know sometimes on these forums, you can be ridiculed for posting genuine experiences so that others can learn from it. So, I'm posting this at the cost of my ego and risk of personal attacks. 

I would have asked her, why so much? do we have to bribe Putin personally?

Then she might say, yes but that is for the documents and my dress.
or yes if we want to get it back in 90 days it's only $1.00 per page, but
if we want it back right away it's XYZ

Angel Eyes was very good at telling me how much everything cost when I was sending
her money. She calls herself Scroodge McDuck and sometimes is a little too thrifty. She
thinks I was crazy for flying to Voronezh instead of taking the bus for (6 hours). I told
her it was worth the $200-300 just to be able to smell her hair 5 hours sooner. Besides
I would rather do my own dental work with my own electric drill than sit a stuffy bus for
6 freaking hours after spending the previous 18 hours traveling in cramped airline seats
to see her.

I would send her the money plus a hundred bucks. Then call her and tell her
Hey I sent you $865.00, $765 plus $100 in case anything else comes up. Why
were the translations so high? did the translator need to buy new _________ enter
something funny here ie breast implants, vibrator batteries, etc.

At this point in time, you've swapped body fluids. You've spent a lot of time together
and she hasn't shaken you down for anything before, so I think that she needs the
money for something else or she needed to bribe somebody to get quick service.

The extra hundred bucks shows that you aren't "greedy" and that you are genuinely
concerned for her.

Udachi!

Bill

[cc3]

$765 for the paperwork to get married in UA is an absolute ripoff! Why don't you come to UA and do the paperwork yourself, for less than $100, if you still want to marry her?

[Lily]

Angel Eyes was very good at telling me how much everything cost when I was sending
her money. She calls herself Scroodge McDuck and sometimes is a little too thrifty. 

Attagirl  Please say her hello and Merry Christmas from me, Bill 

[BdHvA]

Welcome Arnold,

Julia and I were married via ZAGS this year on a snowy day in January in Kiev. We are together now heading off to the Carpathians end of next week.

We estimated when we were finished we spent some $400,= Part of the problem and that means expense is who will approve said documents that you submit in Kiev. At one point a rather official came with all sort of odd regualtions. Julia in a slightly more than firm voice expressed her feelings. It became part circle jerk and part Easter Egg Hunt to get all the ducks lined up.

Some of the expenses include obtaining documents in the West with apostilles on them. Paying for the official and the translation plus having all documents certified by a third party (notaris). Never mind that some of the documents are already printed on the reverse in Russian and Ukraine as well as Latin, it needs the translation and certification. Rent the location in the ZAGS office ours was a popular setting, photgragher, etc. This excludes numerous taxi trips and both the dinner and rags for the bride, in itself an agony.

Most likely you can not use your translator who helped in the initial start of your relationship. This translator needs to certified and approved.

It will be easier for your bride if you are there to help with the process and keep things organized.

BUT far more important is the Trust issue that you have raised you need to resolve that almost before you even attempt to proceed

Good Luck

[2tallbill]

Attagirl  Please tell her hello and Merry Christmas from me, Bill 

Ok, Lilia will do

Spasibo,

Bill

[JayH]

Is your fiancee in Russia or Ukraine? I was just married, in Ukraine, two months ago. I estimate the total cost of fees, translations, copies, and notary services, including preparing for Temporary Residence Permit application, to have been less than $100 (and that includes my required one year 'health insurance' premium).

$765 for the paperwork to get married in UA is an absolute ripoff! Why don't you come to UA and do the paperwork yourself, for less than $100, if you still want to marry her?

CC-- why not get some specific details of what is being translated here?
Having recently done the documentation it should be fresh in your mind(s) of the process required.
It is not helpful to say it is a ripoff--that in essence is the op's question-in effect--is it a rip off and if so--how?
Av also mentions some costs--that are higher than your estimates-- so--why not examine more closely before reaching a conclusion.
To the op-there is some good advice above- I will add mine--hasten slowly to a conclusion !
Mende and Lily touch on this above---Girl may be 100% legitimate in what she believes here.Dealing with bureaucracy in Ukraine can be a nightmare and if she is not experienced with it--she could be being told anything.
I would work through this piece by piece and see how it all looks.

On asking for money--some posters here are clueless--money is in very short supply for most people in Ukraine and any extra outgoing is likely to create considerable stress.