Is it usual for Ukrainian Women to be inaffectionate when starting relationship?

[Muzh]

So like not much physical body contact, not meaning sex here, but no real kissing, holding each other, holding hands even. Friendly, not expressionless just no real physical contact as we would normally expect in the west.

If you give great phone, your first date should be extremely physical. 

[Muzh]

No. It means she is not in to you. Have a kitchen table chat with her that you feel she just wants to be friends, see how she reacts and move on.

True that.

[Muzh]

That's why I prefer Latin women - they are very affectionate women.

Ahem, the women will behave according to the man.


Latin women can be as cold as ice if the man so does inspire them to be that way.


From experience.

[fathertime]

My UW wife tells me that most UW's feel that western men (WM) are all potential sexpats, thus they maintain the chill but polite exterior until the day they determine differently. She was that way with me until the fourth day together, then she opened up to me with all of the Slavic warmth and passion which we attribute to them in our WM fantasies of FSUW's. That was four years ago. Now she is my committed, loving wife...to a degree that I never experienced from AW's.

If she hasn't opened up to you after a few days, she either has yet to make the determination that you are not a sexpat, or she's just not into you as a potential mate.

What cc3 said here is often true.  Ladies don't know for sure who the hell you are for a while....I know that my wife barely let me touch for a while when we first met...I was dumbfounded by what I felt were mixed signals, but she probably needed to know that I wasn't going to bang and run like many other travelling men are apt to do.  The ladies know this happens and sometimes guard against it.  In addition, people/friends/acquaintances see a couple in local places in her hometown, a woman might feel her reputation is at stake with those eyes on her.....Makes perfect sense in retrospect.




Fathertime! 

[ML]

I was talking about the FSU not China 

OK, well then you are even more confused . . . because I don't think they ever curled women's toes in FSU.

[2tallbill]

OK, well then you are even more confused . . . because I don't think they ever curled women's toes in FSU.

Then you weren't doing it right 

[Trenchcoat]

How will you know she'd be willing to hold hands and kiss on a second meeting before you decide to visit? You will ask her or tell her the conditions that you have before deciding on a second visit? That would be awkward and a bad move. It would give you a false sense that she's into you if she agreed to your requirements. You won't know if any affection she'll give you at the second meeting is real and you will leave just as confused as you are now about where you stand with her.


If she's not missing you while you two are apart, she's not likely to open up to you more on a second visit. Doesn't matter if a woman is reserved, religious, and conservative, if a woman doesn't want to lose you, she'll make sure you're happy when you're together. You are not happy. Nothing changed even after you expressed your concerns with the lady. Other men have left the FSU very happy after meeting their woman. You can have this too but not with this woman.

True, I wouldn't say I'm not happy with this woman, we seemed happy with each other. I guess it would be a case of seeing how things go and sounding each other out beforehand. I think she's genuine enough to not go with stuff she had a hang up on. Still if it doesn't sound like she wanted to commit enough I would have to consider wrapping the trip up with extra dating possibilities. I like her company and vice versa it seems but end of the day I want  a relationship, friendship with someone happy with but a relationship is what I want. Another trip that is purely friendship with one woman would mean I am just making myself unavailable for those that may be compatible with me and want to commit to a relationship from the outset. 

[Faux Pas]

She showed polite, intellectual, non-committal interest.

Obviously she showed enough to you. Which is the point I am attempting to make to our hero. We don't always get what we want but if it's enough to keep you interested, hang around and see where it goes. 4 days would have been enough to send me walking or, it would have been one special woman for me to have stayed. Even then her defenses would have had to been finely honed.

[Gator]

Most FSU women expect the man to make the first move.  I know that this has been discussed here, but you may be missing out if you haven't pushed it.

Didn't read all the posts, but this is true and important.  How one makes the first move is even more important. 

The first move starts when meeting her the first time,  extending your elbow to her when walking so she can hold your arm,  always treating her like a lady (opening doors),  you walking first inside an elevator (explaining to her in case it falls, a joke folks),... 

Seriously, learn the art of massage, as you will have the opportunity for a semi-private ten-second massage of important shoulder muscles and nerve centers.

[Gator]

Ahem, the women will behave according to the man.

Another good point.  So called  "chemistry."  Keep in mind every woman is a different reagent as is the man.   Past performance is no guarantee of future success.   

[ML]

Keep in mind every woman is a different reagent as is the man.   

A reagent /riˈeɪdʒənt/ is a substance or compound added to a system to cause a chemical reaction, or added to see if a reaction occurs.

[Muzh]

Another good point.  So called  "chemistry."  Keep in mind every woman is a different reagent as is the man.   Past performance is no guarantee of future success.   

So I guess men are the substrate. 

[GoodOlBoy]

If she wants to sleep with me during my first 24 day trip to Belarus, she will have to be the one to ask / initiate it. I will not be the one who asks / initiates it.

Good luck with that plan Capt'n.... LOL

[Muzh]

Egads!!


A blast from the past!!!


Greetings dude!

[Faux Pas]

Good luck with that plan Capt'n.... LOL

Good to see you posting GOB! Welcome back

[Gator]

Good luck with that plan Capt'n.... LOL

First, good to know the gunnery sergeant is still kicking. 

Second, I missed treadmilldudw's comment about waiting for her to ask for sex.  That is indeed a really good one. Two points:

1.  Treadmill, FSUW like sex, and in fact FSU gynecologists inform women  that both the act of sexual intercourse and the constituents of semen are vital for a woman's health. 

2.  Treadmill, the woman may think you impotent or a blue man or really weird.  I doubt she will ask for an explanation, and any statement about being a gentleman will not be understood.  I don't know your story.  Is the Belarus woman a virgin?   

Also, treadmill, how can you be with a woman for 24 days and not get sooooooooooo horny?  That's a lot of masturbation. 

[jone]

Damn, Gator.

[treadmilldude]

First, good to know the gunnery sergeant is still kicking. 

Second, I missed treadmilldudw's comment about waiting for her to ask for sex.  That is indeed a really good one. Two points:

1.  Treadmill, FSUW like sex, and in fact FSU gynecologists inform women  that both the act of sexual intercourse and the constituents of semen are vital for a woman's health. 

2.  Treadmill, the woman may think you impotent or a blue man or really weird.  I doubt she will ask for an explanation, and any statement about being a gentleman will not be understood.  I don't know your story.  Is the Belarus woman a virgin?   

Also, treadmill, how can you be with a woman for 24 days and not get sooooooooooo horny?  That's a lot of masturbation.

I just got done skyping with Olya for about 75 minutes. She is crazy about me, it is sort of scary. I do not think I have ever met a sweeter, nicer, kinder woman in my life. Olya is the best, and I am so blessed to have met her. I am going to completely devastate her with love and kindness when we meet (is devastate a proper term in this case?). She has admitted she is very lonely and wants to marry and have a second child. I have admitted to her the same.

Gator, when I read your post I laughed so hard.......a couple people who were near me gave me a look like "What the heck is that guy laughing at? What is wrong with that weirdo, why is he laughing so hard?"

Yes, I already know it is going to be very hard to not ask or initiate love making for that length of time. But I have made a lot of mistakes with women in my life, initiating sex too early on in quite a few relationships (in my estimation. Maybe the girls did not think it was too early? Maybe they were more than ready for sex? I dunno.)

I suppose if it is something she really wants, then she will initiate it. If she would rather wait for the second trip, or even if she is extremely unique and wants to wait until our wedding night, then that will be incredibly difficult for me, just so difficult. But I will certainly honor whatever she wants. But I am 37. I am an old man. I am lonely. I can either have sex, screw up and be childless and wifeless for the rest of my life. Or I can suck it up, sacrifice, have a terrible case of blue balls for 12 months, 18 months, however long until we marry...and as a result be happy for the rest of my life. I want to be happy the rest of my life. I want to be a great Husband and a great Father.

Olya is an amazing woman. Her little 7 year-old daughter Veronica (she just had a birthday today, TODAY!! She turned 7 today, April 4th!!) needs a good Father. I need to do something good with my life. This is something very noble and good I can do with my life. I intend to do it and do something good with my life. It is not about me. I am not a narcissistic prick. My Mom and Dad did not raise me to be a narcissistic prick. It is about Olya and Veronica.

Showing true empathy for Olya and Veronica...I cannot think of anything better I can do with my life.

Everyone can laugh at me, it is cool. I know my post is bordering on neurotic. I just am crazy about this woman and her Daughter.

[jone]

Since the focus is on the daughter, because of her birthday, you should take the opportunity to find out if the father participated in her birthday celebration.  This will give you a clue as to whether you can actually get the daugther out of the country. 

Now I realize you think I am a pain in your ass.  But these are lessons learned from experience.

The greatest threat that you have to a budding relationship with a UA woman with child is that the father will put up roadblocks to her living in the US.  As a matter of fact, without the father's written and notarized consent, that child will never step foot in America. 

So, as a method to 'feel her out', find out if the father is part of the daughter's life.  If he is, it is highly unlikely that he will let his daughter go to the US.  We have one member on here, who's stepdaughter's father had not seen her in four years and still put up every roadblock possible.  Only when the absence was proved in court was the child allowed to leave. 

[treadmilldude]

Thank you Jone for your post. Very good information. Oh, not that it matters, but she is from Gomel, Belarus, not UA.

[Faux Pas]

I just got done skyping with Olya for about 75 minutes. She is crazy about me, it is sort of scary. I do not think I have ever met a sweeter, nicer, kinder woman in my life. Olya is the best, and I am so blessed to have met her. I am going to completely devastate her with love and kindness when we meet (is devastate a proper term in this case?). She has admitted she is very lonely and wants to marry and have a second child. I have admitted to her the same.

Gator, when I read your post I laughed so hard.......a couple people who were near me gave me a look like "What the heck is that guy laughing at? What is wrong with that weirdo, why is he laughing so hard?"

Yes, I already know it is going to be very hard to not ask or initiate love making for that length of time. But I have made a lot of mistakes with women in my life, initiating sex too early on in quite a few relationships (in my estimation. Maybe the girls did not think it was too early? Maybe they were more than ready for sex? I dunno.)

I suppose if it is something she really wants, then she will initiate it. If she would rather wait for the second trip, or even if she is extremely unique and wants to wait until our wedding night, then that will be incredibly difficult for me, just so difficult. But I will certainly honor whatever she wants. But I am 37. I am an old man. I am lonely. I can either have sex, screw up and be childless and wifeless for the rest of my life. Or I can suck it up, sacrifice, have a terrible case of blue balls for 12 months, 18 months, however long until we marry...and as a result be happy for the rest of my life. I want to be happy the rest of my life. I want to be a great Husband and a great Father.

Olya is an amazing woman. Her little 7 year-old daughter Veronica (she just had a birthday today, TODAY!! She turned 7 today, April 4th!!) needs a good Father. I need to do something good with my life. This is something very noble and good I can do with my life. I intend to do it and do something good with my life. It is not about me. I am not a narcissistic prick. My Mom and Dad did not raise me to be a narcissistic prick. It is about Olya and Veronica.

Showing true empathy for Olya and Veronica...I cannot think of anything better I can do with my life.

Everyone can laugh at me, it is cool. I know my post is bordering on neurotic. I just am crazy about this woman and her Daughter.

Just a word of advice, get yourself a bit more grounded to reality. Your head is so far in the clouds or up your ass (I really can't tell which) for you to be successful in this adventure or any healthy relationship. Your fantasies have taken over.  You are headed head first into a crash and burn if ever I saw one and it will be you that did it.

How can you manage a relationship, be a great father and husband if you can't manage a sexual relationship no matter when it occurs? First day, second day, second or third trip it doesn't matter. It's sex, that's all. Apparently you're not very good at it hence, the apprehension. Sex doesn't end relationships. When done correctly it's strengthens them. If this gal is as wonderful as you say, you should be wanting to bone her the minute you lay eyes on her and work toward that end. Trust me, she wants you to. Yes, you can do it and still be a gentleman 

[Gator]

Since the focus is on the daughter, because of her birthday, you should take the opportunity to find out if the father participated in her birthday celebration.  This will give you a clue as to whether you can actually get the daugther out of the country. 

Now I realize you think I am a pain in your ass.  But these are lessons learned from experience.

The greatest threat that you have to a budding relationship with a UA woman with child is that the father will put up roadblocks to her living in the US.  As a matter of fact, without the father's written and notarized consent, that child will never step foot in America. 

So, as a method to 'feel her out', find out if the father is part of the daughter's life.  If he is, it is highly unlikely that he will let his daughter go to the US.  We have one member on here, who's stepdaughter's father had not seen her in four years and still put up every roadblock possible.  Only when the absence was proved in court was the child allowed to leave.

Excellent point.  I would take it a step farther and use this as an opportunity to understand the relationship with her ex-husband.  Normally we suggest that men not dwell on past relationships because unlike melodramatic AW, FSUW do not.  The past is past.

You should explain what Jone wrote, and say you need to know more to determine the best course of action for dealing with the father.  Ask what were the specific problems. 

[Gator]

I know my post is bordering on neurotic.

Bordering?  LOL

You know this woman far better than us.   Yet most of us here have experience with RW, and some a lot.  Many men have used a three-day rule (if no sex by the third day, move on).  Let's hope she does not have a three-day rule. 

Every woman is different.  One of my wife's friends here in the US married an AM and quickly separated after he became abusive.  She has told a small circle of RW that she knows little about sex even though she was married earlier to a RM.  She did not have sex for six years after the divorce from the RM.  All the other local RW are amazed by this fact.  If your woman is this way, your plan will work, yet this is not normal FSUW behavior.


Let us hope and assume your woman is normal.  I suggest you think through the possible encounters and situations that will take place over 24 days.  She probably has too much pride to intitiate sex, much less ask for it.  However, I bet she will be ready for sex at some point early in your visit.  She will signal you she's interested, and IMO she will be confused if not disappointed if you do not read her signals. 

FSUW seek a strong man.  A strong man does not mean an insensitive, charging bull.  It means a man who knows what to do.  This is not just about sex, but about many things such as how you take the lead in planning while involving her. 

The last thing a FSUW would want is a silly man.  Next to last is a man-child.   Frankly, you seem to be the latter.  Most FSUW have experienced much turmoil and stress in their life, more than AW.  They want a strong man at their side.  She has a child and must feel confident that you will protect the two of them and nurture them if they move to the US.

[BillyB]

I suppose if it is something she really wants, then she will initiate it.

That's not how it works when you're in the early stages of dating. You need to make the moves. When you're kissing her and it's going well, offer your tongue. If she takes your tongue and offers her tongue and it goes well, rub the back of her body and bring her in closer. If that goes well, rub her butt. If that goes well, rub her chest and if she's shy, grab her hand and place it in your private spot for her to rub. If the woman doesn't resist, that means she wants you to continue, maybe to the end. A woman will stop you when she reaches her limit and like a gentleman you shall stop at that point and an FSU woman wouldn't hold it against you and she will be happy to know your equipment is working fine should she get into a long term relationship with you. If you don't make a move and you go 24 days without sex on your visit, your lady will suspect your equipment or head isn't working properly.

Excellent point.  I would take it a step farther and use this as an opportunity to understand the relationship with her ex-husband.  Normally we suggest that men not dwell on past relationships because unlike melodramatic AW, FSUW do not.  The past is past.

You should explain what Jone wrote, and say you need to know more to determine the best course of action for dealing with the father.  Ask what were the specific problems. 

We've had men on this forum ready to marry an FSU woman with a child only to have the woman's ex prevent the child from leaving the country. Treadmilldude, if your lady gets in a position to choose, most likely she will choose to be with her child over you. You need to find out about the child's father and ask the lady if the child's father will give permission for the child to leave the country. If you get to meet the father when you're visiting, be strong, be respectful, and don't get yourself into a discussion that you will be a better father than he. If you and this lady become a couple and later down the line you are experiencing difficulties with the lady's ex, get some answers here on how to proceed before you get yourself into trouble.


People have criticized you jumping into this too fast and being excited without even having met the lady. I'm with them but it's very possible you found a woman just like you and will have wonderful future with her. You both like talking to each other for long periods of time and based off what you said, she is excited about a future with you as you are excited about a future with her. I hope your analysis of her attitude towards you is correct otherwise you're in for a rude awakening when meeting face to face.

[ML]

I am surprised that no one mentioned it yet (at least that I noticed), but FSUW will definitely initiate sex.

The way they do it is by forcefully proclaiming that they are going to go take a shower.

Of course, for those not aware of this signal, they will think she actually just needs a shower.

Or, if they are fast enough to initiate, they will be fast to follow.

For instance, I remember when I brought a FSUW back to my apartment on a first date.

I told that I was going to go wash my face, which I often do just for the refreshing feeling.

When I returned to living room, the gal said:  Now I will go . . . and I am going to wash more than just my face.

I loved it . . . and still remember it warmly.  A pretty nice way of getting her intentions out clearly.

We may not always remember how the sex was; but we remember some of this really cute stuff and the humorous stuff also . . . of which I have a lot of stories to tell.