Update. Not Good.

[jone]

I only respond to what I see.  And it is not a realistic demand for evidence.  It is a 'stop and think about what you're saying' response.  FT, it is time you stopped with your pursuit of me and started thinking about what you can really do on behalf of the people around you.

People get divorced all of the time.  You try and help people to get to a better place.  One of the things this lady did is believed someone other than her family for her own marital status.  That is a silly thing to do. If she is going to come on a forum, it needed to be pointed out to her.

Now, everyone on the forum knows that you will come back and keep trying to make your point.  But perhaps you aren't as smart as you think you are.  After all, we all looked at her pictures to determine that she was who she said she was.  You were so quick to make your point that you forgot to do your research.  Once again, we didn't hear a mea culpa for that little mistake.

[Bee Farmer]

One of the things this lady did is believed someone other than her family for her own marital status.  That is a silly thing to do.

Where there is smoke there is fire.

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and talks like a duck...it is probably a duck.

With what Marta has said and been told, there's a lot of smoke and a whole lot of quacking going on.

It is speculation if Lonedrake had sex with the other woman, but it appears that he did violate the marital trust by talking about intimate marital details with another woman who has interest in Lonedrake.

[jone]

You don't know that, Bee Farmer.  She could have obtained the information she used against Marta from any of a number of sources.

[ML]

She could have obtained the information she used against Marta from any of a number of sources.

Yes, I do tend to talk in my sleep.

[dragonkid]

  But, please, have at it, as you are an expert on marriage.

so you think it is okay to talk to other people and give them explicit details about your marriage? leave your wife by herself, who is suffering from mental health problems, during holiday periods which are often celebrated with family members?

[Boethius]

Where there is smoke there is fire.

Not necessarily.  I knew someone who always accused her husband of sleeping around on her, and it was absolutely all in her head.  It was not his nature to cheat.

but it appears that he did violate the marital trust by talking about intimate marital details with another woman who has interest in Lonedrake.

Nothing in what Marta posted indicates any information being passed on to that woman.  The other woman just played on Marta's own insecurities, insecurities that are quite common among women.

[Boethius]

Boethius, I am unsure what you are referring to with this statement. Would you mind expounding upon exactly what you mean when you say the average Ukrainian citizen suffers abuse and humiliation?

I'm not certain it can really be explained.  It has to be lived.

Power differentials are very evident in Ukraine, and those in power like to lord it over those who are powerless.  That goes from police to bosses.  It is one of the things those who had education/power in the FSU have the most difficult time adjusting to in the West, that there is no deference to them because of their education or position.

You won't see this as a Westerner.  If you marry a woman who is not from the working class, she will not have experienced it either.  In fact, she was probably on the other end.

[BillyB]

Really doesn't matter who committed sins in the marriage. Doesn't affect the division of assets and spousal support in their state. What LD and Marta needs now is a solution to reconcile or divorce with the least amount of emotional and financial pain as possible.

[GuppyCaptain]

For 10 months? Of course i would find it reasonable, if you bring someone to your home, disrupt their lives, you should pay. I had a chance where a girl i knew wanted to drop her chance of a masters, to come to the uk and work as an au pair, but unlike most men, i told her not to do it as i feel responsible for her decisions in life. Same with my recent ex, i told her clearly, i wouldn't want her to disrupt her life, till we got married, i would do all the work. Some of you talk big about your love and great hearts, but only shows when a woman's legs are wide open, as soon they shut so does your compassion.

Atleast the woman doesn't leave the relationship feeling like she was used as a sex slave. She gets to move on, and a chance to make something of her life in a new country, or go back home, buy a nice home, and continue with her life.

Um, you do realize that the average American's net (take home) pay is about $3,000/month right? That's 36K a year or roughly 45K gross minus taxes, insurance and perhaps some retirement contributions. So you're saying that it's normal or okay to give your spouse that you're newly separated from most of your monthly salary assuming that you're the average person?

Honestly, your post(s) are filled with ASSumptions and at the risk of offending you I don't think you have had the life experience of going through a divorce to know what the hell you're talking about.

I post this somewhat reluctantly as the last thing I want to see is this forum turn into insults and mud-slinging, but having just turned 42 y/o I've come to the realization these last few years that I know a hell of a lot less than I thought I did. Don't get me wrong, I'll speak my mind and give my opinion on subject matter that I'm familiar with, but try to shut my mouth with regard to things I don't know about (as is the case with you and divorce).

[Gator]

People get divorced all of the time.  You try and help people to get to a better place.  One of the things this lady did is believed someone other than her family for her own marital status.

Marta believed an email written to her by Lonedrake's ex-girlfriend in which the ex- criticized Marta's behavior, claimed she and Lonedrake were still having sex, and also claimed that Lonedrake confided that Marta is a bad lover.

Sending such an email is an appalling, low-class act.  If true, the ex-girlfriend is crazy from jealousy or just mean-spirited.  Normal people don't send such emails. 

Marta should have been concerned upon receiving the horrendous email.   She had a choice of either believing the email or showing the email to Lonedrake and listening to his explanation and his suggestion for what to do.  Marta chose to belive the email.  Why?  Who knows, but the reason is more than the fact Lonedrake did not bring fish home.

They live in a small town, and maybe Lonedrake and his ex-girlfriend can not avoid seeing each other when shopping, etc.  I believe Marta would be justified in stating the email upset her and asking Lonedrake to never talk to the ex-girlfriend and never mention her name in front of Marta.  Such is how loving couples deal with outside factors that could harm a marriage.   

We don't know the full story.   We don't know if the two gave a full-faith effort to reconciliation.  Billy B's words are solid:

Really doesn't matter who committed sins in the marriage. ....What LD and Marta needs now is a solution to reconcile or divorce with the least amount of emotional and financial pain as possible.

The State has laws and guidelines for ending such marriages fairly. 

[fathertime]

I only respond to what I see.  And it is not a realistic demand for evidence.  It is a 'stop and think about what you're saying' response.  FT, it is time you stopped with your pursuit of me and started thinking about what you can really do on behalf of the people around you.

You are a pretty nutty individual to feel persecuted because I commented on your post.  I think that you were rather demanding of evidence, as if she could actually provide it.  Now you are whitewashing (as you normally do) by categorizing your demand as a 'stop and think' moment. 

Now, everyone on the forum knows that you will come back and keep trying to make your point.  But perhaps you aren't as smart as you think you are.  After all, we all looked at her pictures to determine that she was who she said she was.  You were so quick to make your point that you forgot to do your research.  Once again, we didn't hear a mea culpa for that little mistake.

You sure like to speak for other people....  I know you are a bit chatty and probably use your facial recognition software at every possible turn...but most people aren't going to go to such great lengths for verification purposes.  I don't think it was unreasonable to ASK how people knew this person was LD's wife.  I know this much, it doesn't take barrels full of intelligence to point out that you were being a bit one-sided in your unrealistic demands for evidence with one side, but not the other.  I'm satisfied that this has been pointed out to you, and rather than realizing you were being aggressive, you are trying to sidestep the truth, as you usually do!


Fathertime! 

[dragonkid]

Um, you do realize that the average American's net (take home) pay is about $3,000/month right? That's 36K a year or roughly 45K gross minus taxes, insurance and perhaps some retirement contributions. So you're saying that it's normal or okay to give your spouse that you're newly separated from most of your monthly salary assuming that you're the average person?

Why are you comparing yourself and others on here to the average American? I think most on here would be able to afford $30k. Obviously i wasn't suggesting for a guy to go live in a homeless shelter so his ex wife could live in a cost apartment and learn english.

The problem with you and others on here, isn't that you can't pay, is that you don't want to. Divorce for many here is a casual thing, it is like a break up, as long as there is an ironclad prenup. For these women, they don't understand the mentality of the guys they are marrying, they assume as long as they open their legs, cook, clean, and abide to whatever their husband desires are, everything will be rosy. If you are big enough to get married, and scream that you love your wife, you should be man enough to ensure your ex-wife gets a decent headstart.

[GuppyCaptain]

Why are you comparing yourself and others on here to the average American? I think most on here would be able to afford $30k. Obviously i wasn't suggesting for a guy to go live in a homeless shelter so his ex wife could live in a cost apartment and learn english.

The problem with you and others on here, isn't that you can't pay, is that you don't want to. Divorce for many here is a casual thing, it is like a break up, as long as there is an ironclad prenup. For these women, they don't understand the mentality of the guys they are marrying, they assume as long as they open their legs, cook, clean, and abide to whatever their husband desires are, everything will be rosy. If you are big enough to get married, and scream that you love your wife, you should be man enough to ensure your ex-wife gets a decent headstart.

Again you're full of ASSumptions about life, divorce, and those of us on here that have been through it. Fire away......

[Marta7]

Marta believed an email written to her by Lonedrake's ex-girlfriend in which the ex- criticized Marta's behavior, claimed she and Lonedrake were still having sex, and also claimed that Lonedrake confided that Marta is a bad lover.

Sending such an email is an appalling, low-class act.  If true, the ex-girlfriend is crazy from jealousy or just mean-spirited.  Normal people don't send such emails. 

Marta should have been concerned upon receiving the horrendous email.   She had a choice of either believing the email or showing the email to Lonedrake and listening to his explanation and his suggestion for what to do.  Marta chose to belive the email.  Why?  Who knows, but the reason is more than the fact Lonedrake did not bring fish home.

They live in a small town, and maybe Lonedrake and his ex-girlfriend can not avoid seeing each other when shopping, etc.  I believe Marta would be justified in stating the email upset her and asking Lonedrake to never talk to the ex-girlfriend and never mention her name in front of Marta.  Such is how loving couples deal with outside factors that could harm a marriage.   

We don't know the full story.   We don't know if the two gave a full-faith effort to reconciliation.  Billy B's words are solid:

The State has laws and guidelines for ending such marriages fairly.

Lonendrake girlfriend wrote to Marta on the phone text. And he admitted that all the howling communicated with that woman.

[Marta7]

Why are you comparing yourself and others on here to the average American? I think most on here would be able to afford $30k. Obviously i wasn't suggesting for a guy to go live in a homeless shelter so his ex wife could live in a cost apartment and learn english.

The problem with you and others on here, isn't that you can't pay, is that you don't want to. Divorce for many here is a casual thing, it is like a break up, as long as there is an ironclad prenup. For these women, they don't understand the mentality of the guys they are marrying, they assume as long as they open their legs, cook, clean, and abide to whatever their husband desires are, everything will be rosy. If you are big enough to get married, and scream that you love your wife, you should be man enough to ensure your ex-wife gets a decent headstart.

Marta 2 education, 2 diplomas of the University:)) and he's got zero:)). She speaks three languages

[jone]

Well, if you are so educated and he is not, then perhaps you should support him? 

Seriously, is part of the discussion now to insure that you can complete the current course of study that you are in?

[dragonkid]

Seriously, is part of the discussion now to insure that you can complete the current course of study that you are in?

someone brought up she should get nothing, i just think she should get something. Obviously not the house, but a little something so she can move on with her life, and feel like she wasn't just used.

[BillyB]

Marta, what do you want from Lonedrake? Do you still love him and want to remain married to him? Earlier he said he still had feelings for you.

Do you want divorce? Do you want all the house? How much money do you think you need to move on with your life?

[LiveFromUkraine]

Marta, I also think you will have a lot more options staying in America.  Hopefully you will take Bo's advice and really think it through.

[Gator]

Lonendrake girlfriend wrote to Marta on the phone text.

Does not change anything, except to say the ex-'s comments were even more spontaneous and emotional.         

And he admitted that all the howling communicated with that woman.

I am not sure what you are saying.  If Lonedrake admitted to having a relationship  with his ex- and does not want to stop the relationship, it is clear your marriage is broken and can not be reconciled.  Divorce is the only answer. 

The judge will decide what you should receive, and because your marriage is so short, the law and guidelines suggest you will not receive much.   Listen to your attorney and develop a plan for taking care of yourself.   If you are unable to find work in your small town, you will need to move.  Do you have Ukrainian friends in other cities who will help you start a new life?  Will you life be better than what you had in Ukraine? 

I suggest you be very cautious about finding a new American boyfriend.   There will be many men who would want to date you.  However, are they good men?  Will they stay with you?  Women in your status if not careful tend to be passed from man to man. 

I sincerely wish you peace and happiness. 

[Gator]

For these women, they don't understand the mentality of the guys they are marrying, they assume as long as they open their legs, cook, clean, and abide to whatever their husband desires are, everything will be rosy.

It has been my experience that FSUW are not blindly optimistic as you suggest.  Most women over 30, maybe even somewhat younger, have already been through much.   Boethius's words "abuse and humiliation" speak volumes.   In contrast to your thoughts of blind optimism,  FSUW tend to be skeptics.  This trait can delay developing the high amount of trust inherent in loving marriages. 

 

[Boethius]

Marta 2 education, 2 diplomas of the University:)) and he's got zero:)). She speaks three languages

So why did you choose a man without higher education, if that's important to you?

[dragonkid]

It has been my experience that FSUW are not blindly optimistic as you suggest.  Most women over 30, maybe even somewhat younger, have already been through much.   Boethius's words "abuse and humiliation" speak volumes.   In contrast to your thoughts of blind optimism,  FSUW tend to be skeptics.  This trait can delay developing the high amount of trust inherent in loving marriages.

Your experience might be with women who are not deeply in love with their partners. I have a friend in Russia, who is from a well-off family, she has no need for a man in her life, always made that clear. I won't spell out her story, yet she was blindly optimistic of her foreign boyfriend , it was obvious he was no good, but she couldn't give up because she loved the guy to bits. He wasn't rich , he was just a good looking guy, in her age bracket. There is a difference when you are in love, and just need a guy to provide you with a better life, the latter often ends up with the woman going off to another guy.

These women don't go dating abroad unless they know the relationship will last. I mean what kind of woman goes for a guy that could be old enough to be her dad? unless there was a chance for a long lasting relationship, there is nothing she gets from being in that relationship.

i still remain firm, that once a relationship break down, if you have the funds, you should ensure some money is given to her so she can start over. Some of the guys won't like that, as after a few divorces, starts to get very expensive. it is about being fair, i haven't suffered a divorce, but i have went through break ups, so i know about the feeling of caring for the other person even after the relationship is dead. I haven't been in love, but i think if i was, i would happily pay some money to make sure my ex wife would possibly find happiness in UK after me, or go home, and find happiness there, with a little support.

[Boethius]

Your experience might be with women who are not deeply in love with their partners. I have a friend in Russia, who is from a well-off family, she has no need for a man in her life, always made that clear. I won't spell out her story, yet she was blindly optimistic of her foreign boyfriend , it was obvious he was no good, but she couldn't give up because she loved the guy to bits. He wasn't rich , he was just a good looking guy, in her age bracket. There is a difference when you are in love, and just need a guy to provide you with a better life, the latter often ends up with the woman going off to another guy.

It sounds as if she loved the idea of him.  She likely idealized him because he was good looking.

These women don't go dating abroad unless they know the relationship will last

I don't believe that is true.  Furthermore, one cannot know if a relationship will last.

[Gator]

i still remain firm, that once a relationship break down, if you have the funds, you should ensure some money is given to her so she can start over.
 

Who is arguing with this position?  I imagine most men here feel the same.  The key words are "start over,"  not to be supported for the long term unless the couple had common children.

What do you do for the woman if she does not speak English well, has no job skills, etc.?

I haven't been in love, but i think if i was, i would happily pay some money to make sure my ex wife would possibly find happiness in UK after me, or go home, and find happiness there, with a little support.

Becoming a little sanctimonious, huh?   Which is worse:

      1.  Giving a divorced wife only what the family law courts required. 

      2.  Taking a young woman's virginity under false pretenses, and then publicizing it as if it were a trophy.