Dodgy-looking Saint Petersburg site

[Bruno]

Go check rabota.ru and see that they've got new job adverts. Now, why would they change them if there was nothing wrong with them in the first place?

No need to check rabota.ru, i already know why... these topic and my correspondance with Elena is the reason... the 26/06/2006 at 19h26, she wrote me :

...
I would gladly answer all the questions from the people.

And one more thing, if someone doesn't like the word WRITING  (letters) in my advert,
I'll change it in TRANSLATING.

I hope then it will be OK!
...

Simply, she don't wish anymore misunderstanding due to a simple advert...

[bobs12]

Ah, that makes everything okay then. I can be spared my daytrip to Nekrasova if I admit I was wrong to start the thread?

[Bruno]

However Bruno:  You seem to not understand American humor.  Which is not surprising,,,,, Most Europeans don't.  When I said she was a cutie..... I didn't intend to suggest that she may be availible.  IT WAS A JOKE.  When I said that he would be willing to check things out for you for a fee,,,,, IT WAS A JOKE.  I realize you are taking everything literally.  But sometimes things Western folks say are "AS WE SAY" Tonge in cheek.  This means with an amount of sarcastic humor.  You should be a little use to that from this site... It seems to be full of it!

Horseman, English is not my main language... Use French or Dutch and i will maybe understand hidding humor... If i was making joke in French, you will not understand it too due the the language...

Yourself, having work in Russia, certainly know the missing effect of our western joke... they simply don't understand it but i can assure you that Russian are people with a lot of humor... These forum is similar, we have people from around the world, from different culture, with other humor... so, simply make it clear when it is a JOKE...

[Bruno]

Ah, that makes everything okay then. I can be spared my daytrip to Nekrasova if I admit I was wrong to start the thread?

Nothing was wrong with starting the thread... it is your right to have doubt... but why write "Does that look dodgy or what?" when you have already forge your opinion and you are not wishing to change it! It is your right to continue think that these agency is a scam but until you have real evidence of it, you have not the right to say it in public, this is called defamation... who can be punish by law...

People who make defamation on the internet can fell themself secure to make it but :

One very important distinction today is that European and Commonwealth jurisdictions adhere to a theory that every publication of a defamation gives rise to a separate claim, so that a defamation on the Internet could be sued on in any country in which it was read, while American law only allows one claim for the primary publication.

With a forum like RWD, with people from everywhere, a defamation can be sued everywhere... So, i advice people to have very strong evidence before post here... RWD or yourself don't need to have problem with justice...

[TheHorseman]

Horseman, English is not my main language... Use French or Dutch.

Yourself, having work in Russia, certainly know the missing effect of our western joke... they simply don't understand it but i can assure you that Russian are people with a lot of humor...

No Problem Bruno  I don't get Russian humor either.  I do try though.

I am a little curious about a couple things though.  Again I am not trying to get in the middle here.  But you seem to be taking a little more than a passing interest in pointing out that Elena's business is legit.  You said that your girlfriend is from Ukraine, but Elena's business is in or close to St Petes.  I don't get the connection.  Why did it bother you so much that Bob pointed this advertisement out as being strange/Fishy?  By the way that is how I interpreted Dodgy

Again I just tend to look at the way people write and I look for things that stick out.  I was  just curious.

[Bruno]

I am a little curious about a couple things though.  Again I am not trying to get in the middle here.  But you seem to be taking a little more than a passing interest in pointing out that Elena's business is legit.  You said that your girlfriend is from Ukraine, but Elena's business is in or close to St Petes.  I don't get the connection.  Why did it bother you so much that Bob pointed this advertisement out as being strange/Fishy?  By the way that is how I interpreted Dodgy

Be curious is something good, without curiosity, you never learn new thing !

First i am have don't know Elena's business before the start of these topic... myself, i was with doubt and i have decide to contact the agency for inform them about these topic and ask information... it is not the first time that i make so... long time ago, it was similar with a topic concerning a girl called "Sensuality", it was a real bashing of the girls, so i have contact her and she have make some post here... it have reveal that she was a charming lady only guilty to have a very sexy boby... A other example was a guy who have post a story about a girl who was married a other guy in jail, who have know a adventure together and where the girl was return to his husband... the guy who real pissed but i have contact the girl and finsd other information... he have stop post here but have make me promise to never reveal the information concerning himself and his behavour...

Why? Simply because i wish seek the true and usually, it is not possible with only one side of the story... so, when it is possible, i try to contact the opposite side and ask the other story... only so, i am able to forge a opinion.

I have never use service of agency, always make all by myself... When i seek a women, i build my own agency for the time of my seeking... first hand "material" ( women ) and for free... and of course other guys enjoy my free service for the women that i don't show interest... i have build a agency in 1996 before my marriage with a Russian woman and i have make the same in 2005 before finding my ukrainian girlfriend... these time, i have not find my girlfriend, she have find me, via forum... She have contact me, we have become friend and with time, our friendship have evovle in a love relation... She have never seek a foreign husband and before me, she have never think go live outside Ukraine...

Horseman, i hope that these post will help you to know me a little better... old member from these forum know me very good... i can be a pain in the a$$ since i always check all little detail... it happen that sometime i am wrong too... nobody is perfect... i am not from the rah-rah club of the pikles barred club, i am a free electron... Sometime, i agree with one group or the other, sometime i hit one group of the other... i forge my opinion on the fly, with the element posted and these that i find...

About the Elena business to be legit, i am not sure at 100%, info from Bob don't show any real evidence that the business is not legit... but other thing are suspicious ( this don't mean that they are guilty ) and the other thing are speaking on the side via e-mail or PM... only if strong evidence appear that the business is bad, i will make post in these way... Now, a investigation is on his way ( thank to Dan ) for other think but until the end of investigation, nothing will be post about it... it is not my way to accuse before investigation... People and/or agency are not guilty until it is proved.

Myself, when i have build my site, i have find scammer on my site and remove them the more fast that i can... i was not a scam agency since my service was fully free on both side, with direct contact to lady, without need to be register or member... several women and some men was never posted, i have check scam database, make e-mail tracking, check copy of national and/or international passport before post a advert... scam database is a bad tool, too much lady listed without good reason or posted by concurrent agency... e-mail tracking is a good tool and ask only 5 minutes by lady... this allow me to remove ads from lady who say living in Kiev and sending the form from Brazil, california or Turkey... usually young guy who game with internet... the tracking allow me to check until the oblast level... of course, it don't allow to know what think the lady, so you are not protected against scammer who don't lie about the city... Passport control was the best tool... usualy, scammer don't use real passport but false passport... these method ask a lot of time, with photoshop zoomed at 1000% and seeking little detail who show that the scan of the passport was modified and is a false copy... it have only happen one time that a lady have send a false passport in one year, the advert was never publish but the passport was publish....

Ok, enough about me... the topic is not about my personality or who i am... read my 2643 post here and you will know me very good   

[Love-Formula]

Hey Bob,

First of all I have not used to talk to a person with no face.
No face, no facts,...no Bob?!!!
If you started to accuse my agency, so please be so courageous to prove it.
Bob, if you don't show up here till next Saturday, everyone knows that you are the great liar and I am not interested to discuss it here further.

Bob, if you are looking for the truth, you find time for our meeting.

[Louie]

Here is what I got from bob, never did I feel that he was accusing the agency of being a scammer company, he pointed some wording out in an advert, that LOOKED suspect, and from what I read from his post he said this COULD be suspect, not that it IS suspect, then it seems that everyone starts to jump all over Bob for calling them a scam agency without any proof, when he never ACCUSED them in the first place. And Bruno from what I got out of this was you trying to put words in Bob’s mouth, saying the he is accusing this agency without any proof, when I feel he wasn’t. Now this is just my opinion, from what I have read so far.

[catzenmouse]

Louie,

 That has been my take on this as well. Lots of words put into other's mouths/thoughts here that were not said by the original post or poster. But that is something that happens quite often in an text only environment where the words are taken one way and the meaning is meant to be another.

Ken

[TheHorseman]

Bob has run off from the subject.... he is out of town this weekend.  I know he will have plenty to say when he get back. 

But,,, I am with Louie and Ken on this.  That was the way I read it.  Dodgy= Strange or fishy doesn't it.

[bobs12]

Louie, Ken, Will, thanks!

I guess it's a normal thing on forums where threads escalate misquote-on-misquote this way. I'm staying out of the debate over scam/not scam now as far more authoritative people are working on that question.

I notice that Elena's invitation has turned to a challenge.

Elena: No need to send me private messages if you have nothing to hide. Let's see you tell us all out here in the open exactly what I asked you to in the reply to your post. I can assure you that your 'invitation' makes you look more suspicious than anything I wrote so far. If you can't do that, why not? I'm not making you any ultimatums, what's your motive? Can you show us where I 'lied', as you put it?

With Love From Somewhere in Estonia,

Bobs

[Bruno]

And Bruno from what I got out of this was you trying to put words in Bob’s mouth, saying the he is accusing this agency without any proof, when I feel he wasn’t. Now this is just my opinion, from what I have read so far.

Please, read again from the beginning...

First, i have ask info from where was the ads... after, i have inform that other ads was build in the same way... followed by the full advert who begin with the word translator...

I have analyse each argument of bob and produce counter argument... He have post in the section named "scammers and suspect agency"... He have clearly demonstrate that he think the agency is suspect... I think that it is my right to say that i believe that he is wrong...

Sorry but if i say : " Maybe Louie is a homo", how will you understand it ? Like a false accusation or something purely innocent ? Don't forget, i have say "maybe", so i don't accuse... but the result will be that several will have doubt, that a reputation will be destroy... He have not accused directly but he have lead people to think that the agency was guilty... Gaming with words don't change the final result... He have suggest that the agency was a scam, not say it clearly but the result is the same.

[TheHorseman]

Ok,, I have been trying to stay on the fence here. (For Bruno: That means not take a side)  I read the post from the start, but didn't really put that much into it.  Apparently in the same sence that most of us didn't.

But, If you saw an add that offered something that seem suspect to the posiblity that there might be something wrong it.

And you simply posted it to let people know that their was something strange (Dodgy) about it.

And in a place that is setup just for that particular reason. 

I would say that you were doing a lot of people a service and trying to possibly save someone some problems. Which is what I thought this site was all about.

Bruno, Bruno, Bruno...... How do you see it to be a good idea to alert the the Agency that might (And I did say Might) be suspected of being shady so that they could come in here and say "NO WE ARE NOT"  That is like bringing the wolf to the sheep.

Bob tried to do everyone a favor and now You and Elena are branding him a lier.   If he goes to see this woman it doesn't make her legit.  But in a city that screwing with someones ill-legit business in a city full of mafia that don't like that, you could be putting him in a world of hurt.

"HELLO  HERE HE IS"  This guy said it.  I doubt the next guy will want to step up and say "I think there's something wrong with this site". 
A lot of things on this site are here to keep people from getting hurt.

[Louie]

Bruno I think your problem(well maybe not a problem) is you tend to take every statement as absolutely literally(I hope that makes sense) and I mean this as constructive criticism and not to flame you at all, it's like you have no grey area at all, he just said it look Dodgy IE:odd, strange, something out of place. I didn't get the feeling that he was implying that there was a scam going on.

[Bruno]

Bruno, Bruno, Bruno...... How do you see it to be a good idea to alert the the Agency that might (And I did say Might) be suspected of being shady so that they could come in here and say "NO WE ARE NOT"  That is like bringing the wolf to the sheep.

First of all, i think that everybody have the right to defend itself... in these "business", we say to much agency and girls listed like scammer but in reality, they are not guilty... simply a man don't accept that a woman have choose a other man that him, a agency list women from other agency, etc... The two side of a story need to be know for be able to judge...

Second, i am not sure that i have bring the wolf to the sheep... I know these forum and i can assure you that the people here are not sheep, same a wolf have no chance here... and like i have say before, i don't already conclude that these agency is white... some other element are on discussion, not make public until sure of guilty.

Bob tried to do everyone a favor and now You and Elena are branding him a lier. 

Where i have brand Bob like a liar ? Bob have say that the advert don't say the word "translator", i explain that the title of the advert say "translator (400-700$)"... i simply show that Bob have not take the full advert in consideration... it is not brand someone be a liar that show other element, do i need to say "yes, Gods Bob have the truth inside him, i believe all you say and i don't use my own brain"...

The real service for newbies is not a list of some scam agency since it is almost impossible to list everything... but developing a critic spirit, always seeking the true, educate people to detect lie or truth... this is the real service for newsbies... Transform the sheep in a wolf, and the newbies will never fear the wolf again...

If he goes to see this woman it doesn't make her legit.  But in a city that screwing with someones ill-legit business in a city full of mafia that don't like that, you could be putting him in a world of hurt.

If i was Bob, i have accept the invitation... but not a planned one, a surprise one... simply walk trough the office door and open my eyes... if i see people translating letter ( original letter and translation ) maybe the agency is legit... but if i see someone simply typing letter without material to translate, i will be sure that they are not legit...

And really, if you fear so much of the "mafia", don't return in Russia... don't visit a big US city... and seriously, mafia have better business to make that game with bogus marriage agency...

Bruno I think your problem(well maybe not a problem) is you tend to take every statement as absolutely literally(I hope that makes sense) and I mean this as constructive criticism and not to flame you at all, it's like you have no grey area at all, he just said it look Dodgy IE:odd, strange, something out of place. I didn't get the feeling that he was implying that there was a scam going on.

I have understand the original post of Bob like a accusation against these agency... if i have understand it like this, certainly other have think the same that me.Never forget that these forum is used by people who are not all native english people, that we can misunderstand the meaning of some post when it is not posted in a simple clear language...

Louie, i again advice to read my post make here... you will see that i am more posting at the level of gray area that at some extreme... in these case here, i have simply comment about the argument show... some see these advert like a normal one, some other say directly that it seem to be a scam agency... until now, i don't say that the agency is legit or not since i have not enough element for forge a final decision. I am more in the grey area that you think.

[TheHorseman]

And really, if you fear so much of the "mafia", don't return in Russia... don't visit a big US city... and seriously, mafia have better business to make that game with bogus marriage agency...

Bruno,,, God love you buddy,,, But if you think that the Mafia isn't involved in Marriage Agencies and Bride scamming you're really sitting in the dark.

One of the unique facets of the Russian mafia is the fact that they don't have specialty,  They are into everything that makes money.  However one of their specialties is Women and trading women.  I think this fallows right up that path. Brighten Beach NYC is a good place to see this.

As for me being afraid:  I don't do anything that would interfer with their business practices.  ie, they have no interest in me because their is no money in it.  I have had some connections in the past with these types here in the states.  I have also met the locals in the little town I go to (And have become friends with a couple of them) I don't bother them,, they don't bother me.

I have also been in the two groups that the mafia here worry about the most, Rednecks and Bikers.  The reason the mafia here worries about these two kinds of people is because they are unpredictable.  Rednecks and Bikers don't play by their rules and they don't like to be told what to do.  So I am not worried about returning to Russia and I still plan to.

I do enjoy reading your posts though Bruno.

Will

[TomT]

Bobs,

I agree that the original add was suspicious, the letter produced by Bruno did absolutely nothing to calm those suspicions and Elena's posts are very troubling. If your intuition is telling you that you should not be making any social calls, you should pay heed.

[Bruno]

the letter produced by Bruno

 

I have not produce the letter, i am only the mailman 

Ok, i have understand what you mean... but it is the perfect example of misunderstanding who can exist with language...

[bobs12]

Tom- thanks. There are sane people in the world after all.

If i was Bob, i have accept the invitation... but not a planned one, a surprise one... simply walk trough the office door and open my eyes... if i see people translating letter ( original letter and translation ) maybe the agency is legit... but if i see someone simply typing letter without material to translate, i will be sure that they are not legit...

Bruno - this clinches it. You are clearly living in the world of Nancy Drew.

[TomT]

Bobs,

The state of my sanity has already been established by my search for a Russian wife. 

A trip to the agency, at best, would produce questionable results; at worst, you would be exposed to possible retribution. Either way, nothing is to be gained.

If a guy had a pre-existing relationship with a girl who has a profile on the agency site, it could be determined whether they are doing ghost writing or not. I would be a bit uneasy about doing such a thing, however, because we really have no way of knowing how far an agency (or an organization) will go to protect their financial interests.

[bobs12]

The state of my sanity has already been established by my search for a Russian wife.

I guess one way or another we're all in the same boat, whether searching or already coexisting I actually joined knowing that one day I'd need moral support from anonymous people who would know why I was concerned for my waning sanity...

I have to say I have no clue what that woman's intentions are. I've dealt with a few pretty funny 'businesses' here in St. Pete's, and there were some very hairy moments with one or two that I got on the wrong side of (I'm good at getting on the wrong side of people - Will can confirm, having seen me in action ).

She could just be very innocently wanting to show me some 'translation' in process, hoping I'll be convinced like a good little foreigner. But her tone translates pretty well into English and I sure ain't taking up her invitation. If she wanted to defend her reputation here by answering questions honestly and in public, she would do so instead of making cryptic . If she can't, I guess she won't.

Had it not been for the resident genius, I could almost have settled the question by getting a friend to call. Anyway, I don't need to worry about getting scammed, so I leave the digging to Bruno to do for the benefit of others.