EUROVISION 2016- UKRAINE WINS

[JayH]

The country scored 534 points with its song 1944, about Crimean ethnic cleansing under Josef Stalin.
Australia finished second with 511 points, while Russia - which was the favourite going into the competition - was third with 491 points.

Ukraine's Jamala wins Eurovision 2016

The singer had dedicated the song to her great grandmother who was forced to leave along with a quarter of a million Tatars.
It had been expected to finish in the top three but in a surprise result beat favourites Russia, which annexed Crimea from Ukraine in 2014 and had been angered by the song.

http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-36295168

[JayH]

[Anotherkiwi]

The country scored 534 points with its song 1944, about Crimean ethnic cleansing under Josef Stalin.
Australia finished second with 511 points, while Russia - which was the favourite going into the competition - was third with 491 points.

How does Australia qualify as part of Europe?  And, while I can accept Malta, Cyprus and the west Caspian states, I do have a problem with Israel being considered part of Europe.  There also seems to be a big lack of other European countries - no Denmark, Norway or Finland, for example, and Croatia the only one from the Balkans.

The singer had dedicated the song to her great grandmother who was forced to leave along with a quarter of a million Tatars.
It had been expected to finish in the top three but in a surprise result beat favourites Russia, which annexed Crimea from Ukraine in 2014 and had been angered by the song.

How could Russia be angered by the song?  It was performed by a singer from a country which they don't believe exists, and sung in a non-existent language, so it obviously couldn't mean anything to them.

[sleepycat]

You can already picture it now...
During next year's Eurovision event in Kiev, the song of the Russian participant gets totally drowned out by booing from the audience.
 

Or maybe huilo will find an excuse not to send a Russian participant for next year's event.

[JayH]

How does Australia qualify as part of Europe?  And, while I can accept Malta, Cyprus and the west Caspian states, I do have a problem with Israel being considered part of Europe..

Australia has long history with Eurovision with massive TV ratings. We were there as a guest last year and full competitor this year.Eurovision has aspirations  to go worldwide so the Australian presence will be a link in a developing chain.

Eurovision 2016: Why Dami Im's loss is a victory for Australia

Australia's presence in the competition continues to perplex many, even if our presence in the host city is one which is met with a warm embrace.

http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/music/eurovision-2016-why-dami-ims-loss-is-a-victory-for-australia-20160515-gove82.html

Dami was magnicent and a fantastic performance, 

[JayH]

You can already picture it now...
During next year's Eurovision event in Kiev, the song of the Russian participant gets totally drowned out by booing from the audience.
 

Or maybe huilo will find an excuse not to send a Russian participant for next year's event.

[BC]

You can already picture it now...
During next year's Eurovision event in Kiev, the song of the Russian participant gets totally drowned out by booing from the audience.
 

Or maybe huilo will find an excuse not to send a Russian participant for next year's event.

sleepycat,

It's one thing to bash a government or it's leaders, but to foment ill will towards the people of a country is simply wrong on so many levels.  There is a line and you stepped over it IMHO. Yes it happens quite a lot lately, especially in the political threads and you're not the only one, but your post here was quite clear in its intent.  Maybe this critique will serve as an example for others like JayH and prompt a second thought before posting.

[msmobyone]

''Ukrainian singer Jamala conquers Europe not only his performing talent. It is a symbol of the desire for freedom. Freedom of Ukraine from the Kremlin's foreign aggression.''

Susana Jamaladinova, better known by her stage name Jamala, is a Ukrainian singer. A spinto soprano, she performs music of her own composition on the junction of jazz, soul, world music and rhythm & blues with elements of classical and gospel. Wikipedia

I watched the contest and HE was defo a SHE..


Another copy and paste funny from JayH?

Thoughts..

1/ The new voting system - judges AND public is open to 'abuse'..Poland came from last - to 5th ..I reckon it was the UK based Poles tele vote - as one can't vote from one's own nation.

2/ I thought Australia's and Russia's songs were best... FOR SURE it was a foxtrot oscar re Crimea to the Kremlin.

Haven't enjoyed a Eurovision so much in years

[JayH]

sleepycat,

It's one thing to bash a government or it's leaders, but to foment ill will towards the people of a country is simply wrong on so many levels.  There is a line and you stepped over it IMHO. Yes it happens quite a lot lately, especially in the political threads and you're not the only one, but your post here was quite clear in its intent.  Maybe this critique will serve as an example for others like JayH and prompt a second thought before posting.

What a pious lot of self serving garbage.

You think what has gone on is not political? Try the  supposedly  unbiased judges  from Russia  who   awarded quite different results  to the large majority.
What place gave Jamal jury members from Russia:
--  The place given for Jamal  by the jury members from Russia:
Larisa Rubalskaya 25
Stanislav Duzhnikov 14 Oscar Kuchera 21 Denis Maydanov 23 Olipmiada Teterich (Lipa) 25

Perhaps they were not present--but watching TV in Russia-- where I have been told her singing was made to sound terrible!
How much garbage do you expect the rest of the world to tolerate of Russian stupidity? No answer required.
No BC--it is time for you to take off the pink ( or is that RED) glasses and see Russia for what it is.

[msmobyone]

What a pious lot of self serving garbage.

Perhaps they were not present--but watching TV in Russia-- where I have been told her singing was made to sound terrible!
How much garbage do you expect the rest of the world to tolerate of Russian stupidity? No answer required.
No BC--it is time for you to take off the pink ( or is that RED) glasses and see Russia for what it is.

JayH

If I seem to be jumping on the standard of your 'info' recently - it has been for good reason..It is largely due to ill-researched and inaccurate posting

I watched from Russia and the Ukrainian entrant sounds exactly the same when played back on BBC's iplayer..

Really, if you want to make a point about things that are bad about a place - make 'em factual.

[BC]

What a pious lot of self serving garbage.

You think what has gone on is not political? Try the  supposedly  unbiased judges  from Russia  who   awarded quite different results  to the large majority.
What place gave Jamal jury members from Russia:
--  The place given for Jamal  by the jury members from Russia:
Larisa Rubalskaya 25
Stanislav Duzhnikov 14 Oscar Kuchera 21 Denis Maydanov 23 Olipmiada Teterich (Lipa) 25

Perhaps they were not present--but watching TV in Russia-- where I have been told her singing was made to sound terrible!
How much garbage do you expect the rest of the world to tolerate of Russian stupidity? No answer required.
No BC--it is time for you to take off the pink ( or is that RED) glasses and see Russia for what it is.

Are you maybe confusing place for points?  Now agree I am not an expert on Eurovision but aren't more points better?

see:

http://www.eurovision.tv/page/results?event=2113&voter=RU

and attachments from http://www.telegraph.co.uk/tv/2016/05/15/eurovision-2016-results-explained-who-voted-for-whom-in-the-new/

Now tell me what's wrong with this picture or how my glasses of whatever color are affecting my vision.

[msmobyone]

BC


I watched it live and went to bed - I have not analysed the voting but from memory - Ukraine didn't give any votes to Russia or vice-versa at the Judge level

EDITED FOR CLARITY - post checking

I think you must be quoting the televotes - which were added to the Judge votes to give the overall


Russia

http://www.eurovision.tv/page/results?event=2113&voter=RU

Ukraine

http://www.eurovision.tv/page/results?event=2113&voter=UA





 

[JayH]

Are you maybe confusing place for points?  Now agree I am not an expert on Eurovision but aren't more points better?

see:

http://www.eurovision.tv/page/results?event=2113&voter=RU

and attachments from http://www.telegraph.co.uk/tv/2016/05/15/eurovision-2016-results-explained-who-voted-for-whom-in-the-new/

Now tell me what's wrong with this picture or how my glasses of whatever color are affecting my vision.

The    numbers indicate a placing  No 1 -at a  guess is where you place highest rated.
Looking only quickly at your link--it does confirm Russian judge out of sync   eg  awarding Aust 24th when  she was 4th-- at that stage.
So I am guessing the numbers I quoted earlier are about right .
The voting system and procedure of the competition  is quite convoluted-- despite  a new system being implemented this year that seems to have wider approval.

The point of pointing out Rus judges results was they were not judging as they saw it--but to unique Russian formula!    A little like how they have historically assessed gymnasts and ice skating in the past!! So neither new or surprising.

I did suggest earlier that perhaps they should have organised those that successfully organised cheating in Sochi to have helped them out here!!

FWIW-- you may not be aware that Russia has been trying for months to have Jamala  excluded from the competition and to prevent that song being sung. I mean any and all type of pressure on organisers,governments,individuals at every level possible.
So complaining about the politics is a little( a lot ) out of order here.

FWIW 2/-  Also to be noted--Australia is not high on the Kremlins christmas card list either--  having loudly and persistently castigated Russia over the invasion of Ukraine on the Crimea and in the east-and over the shooting down of  MH 17 where 39 Australians were murdered as a result of Russian terrorisim.Along with the USA,Canada, - Australia is the subject on Putins reverse sanctions and Aust often gets a mention in Kremlin whingeing!

[BC]

The    numbers indicate a placing  No 1 -at a  guess is where you place highest rated.
Looking only quickly at your link--it does confirm Russian judge out of sync   eg  awarding Aust 24th when  she was 4th-- at that stage.
So I am guessing the numbers I quoted earlier are about right .
The voting system and procedure of the competition  is quite convoluted-- despite  a new system being implemented this year that seems to have wider approval.

The point of pointing out Rus judges results was they were not judging as they saw it--but to unique Russian formula!    A little like how they have historically assessed gymnasts and ice skating in the past!! So neither new or surprising.

I did suggest earlier that perhaps they should have organised those that successfully organised cheating in Sochi to have helped them out here!!

FWIW-- you may not be aware that Russia has been trying for months to have Jamala  excluded from the competition and to prevent that song being sung. I mean any and all type of pressure on organisers,governments,individuals at every level possible.
So complaining about the politics is a little( a lot ) out of order here.

Well the way I'm reading the info at the two sites is that UA gave RU the most points or votes and RU gave UA the second most with more given to Armenia.  The judge's from UA and RU according to the eurovision link gave somewhat similar votes.  If I'm wrong please correct me.  In fact appreciate anyone else chipping in to let me know if I'm colorblind.

In any case I'm certainly not complaining about the politics, just criticizing your and sleepycats's reactions.

[msmobyone]

  If I'm wrong please correct me.  In fact appreciate anyone else chipping in to let me know if I'm colorblind.

In any case I'm certainly not complaining about the politics, just criticizing your and sleepycats's reactions.

Russia

http://www.eurovision.tv/page/results?event=2113&voter=RU

Ukraine

http://www.eurovision.tv/page/results?event=2113&voter=UA



Neither jury of musical experts gave the other any points - your analyses of public vote - your first sentence is  correct.

[sleepycat]

Geez it didn't take long for the kremlin sour grapes to start whinging... 

http://www.yahoo.com/news/sore-russian-officials-bash-ukraine-eurovision-win-094252252.html?nhp=1

[BC]

Russia

http://www.eurovision.tv/page/results?event=2113&voter=RU

Ukraine

http://www.eurovision.tv/page/results?event=2113&voter=UA



Neither jury of musical experts gave the other any points - your analyses of public vote - your first sentence is  correct.

Thanks for figuring that out Moby.

So nothing gained, nothing lost on either side of the equation, both UA and RU judges mimicking each other, with democracy winning in the end.

No foul and I can stop wiping my eyewear.

[msmobyone]

The bookies had Russia marked down as a favourite for a reason... it was IMHO a better song .. but I thought the Australian lass nailed it.

I am a big fan of this event and never miss one. For me the Russian entry was better than Ukraine's - irrespective of the  politics.

If we think about it - this new voting experiment is a failure.... Poland's ex-pats got their nation from last place to fifth..Whilst the guy had a good voice ..it was not 'special'

Russia NOT going to Kyiv would be a mistake.



 

[msmobyone]

Thanks for figuring that out Moby.

So nothing gained, nothing lost on either side of the equation, both UA and RU judges mimicking each other, with democracy winning in the end.

No foul and I can stop wiping my eyewear.

 

I watched it live - the scoring process is often more exciting for me than the songs.

What was also interesting - I never heard any description of what the UA  song was about - even though the Supreme Soviet apologised to the Crimean Tatars.

[JayH]

BC--on the scoring--I dont' know where the numbers above and links relate to final result.
They may be for prelim rounds.
Having watched a reply of the final last night(I did watch live-but busy doing other things at the same time)  I can now understand the scoring system! In previous years it was more complicated to follow.

Ok  50% of votes are awarded  by a panel of judges from each country.
Each country place 12 votes on the best( the one they chose) with votes down to 1 for other choices.
Those that miss out on a vote get 0.
The other 50% are from the countries-you can't vote for your own country. The same number apply as above.

[JayH]

What our Russophiles here are missing is that the popular vote of millions of people lifted Ukraine to victory.
In particular--the Baltic states ,the ex Soviet states and occupied countries under Soviet rule voted extremely heavily for Ukraine.
At the same time rated Russia lower or failed to vote for them.Needless to say--those states now in the Russian orbit rated Russia as no1. eg Belarus

Only a fool would suggest any of that s a co-incidence and not a political statement by masses of people.

[JayH]

 

I watched it live - the scoring process is often more exciting for me than the songs.

What was also interesting - I never heard any description of what the UA  song was about - even though the Supreme Soviet apologised to the Crimean Tatars.

You really are naive. Participants( not just competitors but everyone)  are prevented from making any political comments whatsoever-- and it is heavily enforced.

Jamala comment at presentation was extremely pointed -- and subtle enough to get away with it-maybe you did not get it!!!

[JayH]

Russia NOT going to Kyiv would be a mistake.

I look forward to seeing you and BC in Kyiv. waving your Russian flags-- what ensues will be entertaining.

I will be there with my camera to record the events !!  ( ie you and BC doing your flag waving!!)

[msmobyone]

What our Russophiles here are missing is that the popular vote of millions of people lifted Ukraine to victory.

If you are being analytical - you are incorrect

Russia got the highest public vote. The 'politics' seemed to originate from the national juries.

Ukraine lay 2nd, Russia was fifth, after the jury votes.

The Public lifted Ukraine 1 place, Russia 2 places.

[msmobyone]

I thought this article from the Moscow Times summed up the competition results and fall out quite well

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinion/article/did-russia-get-a-raw-deal-at-eurovision-op-ed/569644.html

Did Russia Get a Raw Deal at Eurovision?