Ukraine Appoints Former NATO Secretary-General as Special Advisor

[Anotherkiwi]

No,,,

The oligarchs,, blame Russia,,,
Because it takes the blame away from them,,,
and puts money in their pocket..

each oligarch seems to control their own Militia or Mafia...
which in turn,, run all sorts of illegal activities...

Internet cam girls... Prostitutes...
Marriage agency scams...
Counterfeiting any thing they can...

I don't dispute any of this, Darth, but it's a simple fact that the oligarchs didn't invade Crimea or the Donbas - Russia did.

Why do I place some blame on NATO and the EU? 

because they promised the world...
Encouraging the Neo-Con oligarchs.. to push for war...

The USA and NATO should be honest..

They should of told the rulers of Ukraine..
They will never be admitted to either NATO or the EU... " at least not until the country economy is turned in to Greece."

Your post did not mention the EU - only NATO.  The EU is an entirely different organisation, and I agree that it should have done a lot more than it did to try to help Ukraine.  However, that point is now moot because of everything else that has happened in the last two and a half years.

Who is pushing for war in Ukraine?

A small group of Neo-Nazi thugs...
With little support from normal people...
And western War Hawks...

Agreed - except that your "western War Hawks" are the arms manufacturers who will make immense profits out of any conflict, not the Governments.

Who does not want war?

The very young men... you would send to the grinder. EVERYONE ELSE.

Fixed that for you.

Just because you scream... does not give you the authority to speak for all people..

Nor do you have that right, either.

[Darth_Budda]

The USA is one of the largest producers of weapons in the world...
I think everyone knows this..

http://web.stanford.edu/class/e297a/U.S.%20Defense%20Industry%20and%20Arms%20Sales.htm

http://www.businessinsider.com/arms-sales-by-the-us-and-russia-2014-8

NATO is not a real alliance.. The last few wars have proved this....
France and the UK could just barely manage to overthrow gaddafi...

As you can see.. As soon as he was dead.. they ran back to Europe.. 
While our other so-called allies like Turkey and Saudi Arabia continued
to allow or maybe even directly aid Religious extremists..

While the Target of the NATO alliance " Russia "
Decided to bomb these same extremists...

I just do not understand the logic...

When you look at our so called allies for example Turkey or Saudi Arabia's support for ISIS..

Than you Look at the so called Bad guys... Russia, China, Iran...

I just do not see any logic... in how the US State department decided the good guys from the bad guys..

One thing the bad guys have in common...  all three, have the political will to tell the US government NO...

The USA should really stop investing in aircraft carriers and submarines as very expensive and obsolete. Easy to destroy them with technology in todays age.

I also agree...  I see all these advanced weapons paid for by Tax dollars as a direct theft from the working class and poor..

While American infrastructure falls apart, Collage remains unaffordable by many and Health care is not provided to all citizens..
The military industrial complex.. continues to build and sell weapons of mass destruction at the expense of the poor...


And you are correct.. . modern wars will not be fought directly with aircraft carriers and submarines...

state sponsored terrorism and insurgencies will become the new normal...
as we have seen in the last few wars that have taken place around the world..

WWI and WWII style wars,  I hope are a thing of the past...

I will agree, The USA so called enemies are not innocent..

But I also look at the crimes of the USA...

I ask,,, What gives us the moral authority..

People need to realize,,,  The American government is not a beacon of Truth or Justice...
We are just as much part of the problem as those we label our enemies..

The fantasy we try to export around the world is fake..   
In America  you get 20 years in jail for stealing a TV,,, but a fine if you steal billions...

What is this shit??? The working classes around the world needs to demand better from their political leaders...
 


As I am now in Ukraine.. again for another month.. Talking to the people I have meet.. 
I listen to the ways that Ukraine is ruled by oligarchs. the private militias of the oligarchs..
that corruption and bribes are common..

The laws seem designed to protect the wealth and power of the oligarch class...
While at the same time, limiting the power of the average citizen..

The protracted war in the east.. makes it easier for the oligarchs to accumulate power...
I have been told by several friends.. They think the war in the east is stupid..
They refuse to be drafted into a war against their own people..
A war that is only enriching the very class of people, that so many died for in Kiev..

The real enemy of Ukraine is the oligarch class...  Only when the princes of Ukraine are destroyed,
than real change might reach those who need help the most... 

The war should and must be stopped..  Money should be spent on the people, not a war to enrich the oligarchs..


I think it is very unlikely that enough Ukrainians will be convinced that a War against the Ukrainian people in the east.. is just...
or that open war with Russia is either correct or winnable...

Why would you fight? if you can not see any real benefit to your own family?
The only people who benefit is the oligarchs..

Many of these people have family in Russia or other former states of the USSR...


I just get annoyed.. when I see so much news and propaganda being shoved down my throat..

[Darth_Budda]

I don't dispute any of this, Darth, but it's a simple fact that the oligarchs didn't invade Crimea or the Donbas - Russia did.

I am not sure you can really say that...

It has been proved that Russia sent troops in to East Ukraine..  Vice news did what the US government could not do... Simple proof...

But it has also been proved.. that local oligarchs,, were behind the original uprising... these oligarchs,, were kicked out of Donbas after the people in those areas formed self rule..

I am sure the overthrow of one oligarch and the election of another oligarch was not done by chance..
While the people on the street thought they were fighting for real change..
The oligarchs were the ones pulling the strings behind the scene...

once the new oligarchs got power.. They sent the ultra Nationalist to the east.. because they feared their growing power.. I am sure they wanted most of these Ultra Nationalists to die in the east.. .
So the oligarchs decided to not send them supplies..

What better way to slow or stop progress.. Than a civil war..
With the Ultra Nationalist forces  busy fighting...
I assume it made it easier for the oligarchs to get what they wanted,,,,  More Power...


When oligarchs become more powerful than the state itself...
You will have problems...

Some times I think I can see the future of the USA,, in Ukraine...

Where the income inequality is astounding.. and the oligarchs rule with impunity through their own private armies..


Take a good look at Ukraine... This might be what the end game looks like in the USA...



As always.. these are just my opinion... after reading and talking about the subject...

[BillyB]

The USA should really stop investing in aircraft carriers and submarines as very expensive and obsolete. Easy to destroy them with technology in todays age.

Both are still great product to deter major wars. In the event a major war starts, America would immediately go after control of the skies and kill the enemies radar systems blinding the enemy. Can't shoot what you can't see.

[JayH]

NATO is not a real alliance.. The last few wars have proved this....
France and the UK could just barely manage to overthrow gaddafi...


Than you Look at the so called Bad guys... Russia, China, Iran...

I just do not see any logic... in how the US State department decided the good guys from the bad guys..


I just get annoyed.. when I see so much news and propaganda being shoved down my throat..

Perhaps if you shut your mouth it would save you swallowing so much propaganda. 

[LiveFromUkraine]

Perhaps if you shut your mouth it would save you swallowing so much propaganda.

I sure wish you would take your own advice. 

[Boethius]

I am not sure you can really say that...

It has been proved that Russia sent troops in to East Ukraine..  Vice news did what the US government could not do... Simple proof...

But it has also been proved.. that local oligarchs,, were behind the original uprising... these oligarchs,, were kicked out of Donbas after the people in those areas formed self rule..

I am sure the overthrow of one oligarch and the election of another oligarch was not done by chance..
While the people on the street thought they were fighting for real change..
The oligarchs were the ones pulling the strings behind the scene...

Euromaidan was funded, initially, by oligarchs.  Many of the protesters were paid to be there, as is often the case in Ukraine.

once the new oligarchs got power.. They sent the ultra Nationalist to the east.. because they feared their growing power.. I am sure they wanted most of these Ultra Nationalists to die in the east.. .
So the oligarchs decided to not send them supplies..

What better way to slow or stop progress.. Than a civil war..
With the Ultra Nationalist forces  busy fighting...
I assume it made it easier for the oligarchs to get what they wanted,,,,  More Power...

No, that is inaccurate.  Some of those in the new government, in particular, members of Svoboda, went to Donbas to steal what Party of Regions politicians had stolen previously.  They were horrid there, and it was caught on tape, and inflamed the situation.  But yes, Donbas based oligarchs and Yanukovych initially inflamed the situation in Donbas, and funded the fighting.  Nevertheless, it never would have gone to the extremes it did (war) without FSB intervention.

Some times I think I can see the future of the USA,, in Ukraine...

Where the income inequality is astounding.. and the oligarchs rule with impunity through their own private armies..


Take a good look at Ukraine... This might be what the end game looks like in the USA...

I doubt that.  The attitude of Americans is different.  Plus, unlike Ukraine, the US has not had centuries of authoritarian/totalitarian rule.  Its population is not mired in poverty.  It has a rule of law.  The situations are not comparable.

[Muzh]

I sure wish you would take your own advice.

 


Second that.


 

[JayH]

Economically, Russia is certainly not a great power. Russian GDP lies in between that of Italy and Spain. In 2015 alone, the Russian economy has shrunk by around 4 percent. Its power of innovation and modernization is too weak to compete successfully in global markets. Even a recovery of oil prices would only bring minor, and hardly sustainable, relief.

The Russia Paradox: How To Deal with an Aggressive, Yet Weak Power

Politically, Russia has outmaneuvered itself on various fronts. Within a few months, Putin has managed to convince 40 million generally Russia-friendly Ukrainians that his country poses the biggest threat to Ukraine; the Eurasian Union is not moving forward at all; for the first time in decades, Sweden and Finland are now discussing the potential advantages of NATO membership; enhanced cooperation with Beijing has not really brought the expected benefits; and for large parts of the Sunni Arab world, Russia has turned into a long-term adversary.

In addition to its economic and technological plunge, Russia's foreign policy appears heavily burdened and lacking any form of "soft power." The Kremlin seeks salvation in backward-looking self-assertion instead, romanticizing about the past rather than preparing the country for the 21st century. Many in the Russian elite understand that in the longer term, this strategy is not sustainable, that it is doomed to fail.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/wolfgang-ischinger-on-the-russian-paradox-a-1101443.html

[JayH]

At its summit in Warsaw on July 8 and 9, NATO should take urgent steps to protect its allies and partners on its southeastern flank. Bulgaria, Romania, and Turkey, as well as Ukraine and Georgia, are all under severe pressure from Russia and require NATO assistance.


NATO Should Stand Up Black Sea Command Before It’s Too Late

NATO to pay more attention to the Black Sea at the Warsaw Summit, and he is correct. But, he doesn't go far enough. The Alliance must focus on a range of actions to address Russia’s rapidly escalating offensive posture in the Black Sea and protect its allies—including reinforcing air, naval, and ground assets; improving space capabilities; cyber security; reconnaissance; intelligence; and creating credible deterrence strategies.


http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/new-atlanticist/nato-should-stand-up-black-sea-command-before-it-s-too-late

[JayH]

Important "bricks in the wall" for Ukraine.
Where the pieces in the puzzle start to come together it is interesting .


NATO chief in Ukraine: Kyiv has set very ambitious goal


KP: When we talk of “NATO standards,” what do we actually mean? This isn’t just about military hardware and training troops. Isn’t this also about instilling political and ideological values like democracy and rule of law?

AV: You’re right. NATO standards are not only about technical standards. They are also about standards of democracy, good governance, rule of law, human rights, and a market economy. Centrally, they include a commitment to civilian control and democratic oversight, to the peaceful resolution of conflicts, and the ability and willingness to contribute to NATO operations. Ultimately, it is about a fundamental change in mindsets and in the way that institutions act and interact.
http://www.kyivpost.com/ukraine-politics/nato-chief-ukraine-alliance-wants-ukraine-success.html