4 dates via Agency in Odessa last week - have I been scammed, or is she legit?

[dragonkid]

I bring a lot to the table & b/c of that, I regularly date 8's and 9s who are in their 20s and early 30s in the US.

You are all over the place, first you say you are hooking up easy on tinder, then you say it isn't working, then you say 7 and 8's. Now it is 8's and 9's, i am getting really confused.

Nothing against you, but your delusion on type of girls you are dating is probably giving the wrong ideas to lurkers. i don't think i ever told you to not try and aim for someone high up. i encourage you to do so, keep your standards high, message many, visit a few. You sound like a chill guy, i really hope you do well, but there is not need to falsely justify going up for women that are 9's or 10's. if you feel like you can do it, do it, don't let anyone here tell your otherwise, you know what type of women you can get better than anyone else here. You have years of experience at being you,nobody here knows you, problem with rating women is, someone that says an 8, could be a 6 for someone else, or a 10 for somebody else.

[Morty]

So you agree that a woman who runs off with a rich man, because he is rich, then she is a whore. Also, in my search I have only met with age appropriate women and my girl is not a "Vegas Showgirl". Good luck with your search...


HDL

If her primary motivation is his financial status to the exclusion of all other factors like physical attraction, mutual interests and love, by definition she is trading her body for financial gain. The difference between a gold digger and a pristitute is the difference between a lease car or a hertz daily rental. You only have use as long as you pay the rental fees as they are due. The second difference is a prostitute gives a honest business transaction where both parties understand the bill of goods, a gold digger uses fake affection and emotion to smokescreen and mislead, and a man deludes himself that he isn't paying for her company and sex because he pays in instalments rather than by the hour.

BUT;
An attractive woman who knows her value to men who pursues a wealthy guy rather than a broke joe, but does so also expecting physical and emotional attraction from a guy she is compatible with is not the same thing. She is simply smart enough to cut the best deal she can and not sell herself cheap. It is nature that women want a good provider and security, if she can find a rich handsome guy to love versus a poor handsome guy nobody would expect her to pass because it gives her and their children a better life.

As others have said; men set their criteria based on looks, it's acceptable for a guy to want a 10, but a woman whose criteria is financial security first looks second is considered a gold digger or whore? No, that is hypocrisy.

My future wife is a 10 in my book. She is also financially very well off, so she can reject rich guys and choose a man based on his physical attraction, compatible interests and love and care. That's her goals. A poor but attractive girl who can turn heads might elect to trade some age and physical attraction to land a banker or lawyer so her kids have a good life and go to Ivy League. If she can land one and the guy is happy how is that bad that her motivation was financial security over pure looks and attraction. Life for most people is a game of compromises.

Really if you don't want to take the best financial care of your wife and want to share whatever you have with her then you married the wrong woman or are just mean with money in general. Most married guys tell you these women hate financially imprudent guys, but they also hate guys who are penny punchers.

its the hardest balance to strike and why finance is one of the biggest causes of marital strife, you really need to find a partner who has the same financial views as you. If you think buying a Rolex is a waste of money, don't go after women who like to dress in designer labels. You can't expect to keep a racehorse if you want to budget for a donkey. It doesn't make a woman bad to want nice things, what is important is how she gets them. I would buy my girl a rolex in a hearbeat if I could afford it (she already has several so no point), but I do so knowing she is only with me for love and attraction, because her dad pays my salary and I cost her money not the other way round

[Faux Pas]

You are all over the place, first you say you are hooking up easy on tinder, then you say it isn't working, then you say 7 and 8's. Now it is 8's and 9's, i am getting really confused.

Nothing against you, but your delusion on type of girls you are dating is probably giving the wrong ideas to lurkers. i don't think i ever told you to not try and aim for someone high up. i encourage you to do so, keep your standards high, message many, visit a few. You sound like a chill guy, i really hope you do well, but there is not need to falsely justify going up for women that are 9's or 10's. if you feel like you can do it, do it, don't let anyone here tell your otherwise, you know what type of women you can get better than anyone else here. You have years of experience at being you,nobody here knows you, problem with rating women is, someone that says an 8, could be a 6 for someone else, or a 10 for somebody else.

Don't believe everything you read on the boards.

Let's revisit. Here is a 46 year old dude with 5 kids and one of them special needs that by his admission routinely "pulls" 20 year old poon that he believes to be 8 or 9 on the hot babe scales and not only that, they are not only of model quality, they are models. And they are also wife material. So, what he believes he should be doing is traveling abroad to Ukraine or Russia to date 20 year olds that are 10- 10.5 on the hot babe scale to find a wife. Why? Because his friend married one. And if his friend married one, he should be able to marry one too.

Surf is delusional, isn't grounded in any kind of reality and has all of the ingredients of a keyboard romeo. If he were a man of quality he'd be taking care of those 5 kids rather than looking to bed another kid.The guy has more growing up to do than you

[Boethius]

From what I saw with my own eyes from my 3 days in Odessa, and 1 day in Kiev, it is MUCH more common to see young attractive women with much older men ... and to see attractive women with very average or below average looking men.  I saw lots of both while there, people watching in airports, restaurants, shopping areas, city centers, parks, dance clubs, etc.

The "below average looking guy" is from her culture and understands her.  If he sees a pysanka, he will know you look at it and admire it, not crack it open and try to eat it.   Those women are virtually never going to be interested in a foreign man.

The women you see with much older men are with very wealthy men.  Typically, those women are mistresses, not wives.  They're not in it for the long haul.

Your eyes see what they want, it appears, rather than reality.  Your eyes and instinct failed to tell you that "10" you spent the day with had no interest in you.  You were even ready to go back to visit her.

In the US, despite the fact that I am 46 and have 5 kids (which some of you seem to think should make no woman interested in me

It's an irrelevant comparison.  I was merely noting reality.  The reality is, most FSUW, regardless of age, are not going to be interested in a man with five children.  Even if those children are grown.  It's not that you cannot find a woman at all, just the the majority of women will have no interest in you.

[dragonkid]

The "below average looking guy" is from her culture and understands her. 

The women you see with much older men are with very wealthy men.  Typically, those women are mistresses, not wives. 

Your eyes see what they want, it appears, rather than reality.

These are points you should consider OP, i got a few stories, but it will be useless unless you stop living in denial. I was in russia for a month, visited both moscow, and stravpol. Like bo said, they understand their women better than us westerners. I get a lot of comments about russian men are,ugly,aggressive,rude, not interesting, you need to stop believing these sort of stuff, it is not the reality. Some women just say this, as they hate to say, "i want a guy who can support me and raise a family with and not worry about tomorrow", as ignorant men will just categorize them as gold diggers and scum, as they are worried about money. Try and think logically.

[Trenchcoat]

Well I think Surf said he got the tickets more or less free for some reason, perhaps he works for the airline or something. So considering he was just paying for hotel, the agency, the interpreter and meals out the hotel, meals & attractions of which would be at an extraordinary cheap rate I would say he got off with a pretty good trip regardless that she most likely wasn't into him and probably doing it for a few bucks.

Main thing to bear in mind Surf is that a few $ or £ is worth a lot out in the Ukraine (& Russia) these days, you had good company and meals for next to nothing, your fantasy was a cheap one. Some guys on here spend thousands to travel to these women get ripped off a whole lot more than you did. I wouldn't grip about the prices of meals its astoundingly cheap to what you'll pay in the UK & US and often good food too, she did you a favour. Also $70 per girl isnt too bad as long as you dont see too many places like Mordinson (Kharkiv) you'll pay a couple of thousand with apartment and still no guarantees. My recent experience of a girl in the Ukraine taught me the women there will pick up any freebie or money they can of WM if they are that way inclined. To be sure not to get these girls wasting your time, pay for as little as possible, avoid any agency that may be in for a cut however small, really get to know the girl first and make sure there is proper affection to you not including the mandatory welcome/gift receiving hug/holding arm. Keep at it, filter well first to avoid paying out later.     

[msmobyone]

swift observation..

It amuses to read the 'expertise' of a one time 'been there' [ and clueless ] guy v a lady from the FSU..

[Boethius]

To be sure not to get these girls wasting your time, pay for as little as possible

This is a sure fire way to end up alone.  You will be viewed as a cheapskate, a mortal sin in FSU societies.

[Trenchcoat]

... and the 'decent' girls find it equally hilarious that these girls give up countless opportunities at a life in the west so they end up knocked up and knocked about by some local Mafiosi wannabes.

This needs particular highlighting, I can't believe that so many FSW pass over the rich WM and go for the runners up/consolation prize, its laughable but they do, they must be dumb. Going with a WM is going to be far more lucrative and a more comfortable lifestyle, yet they stupidly go for the equivalent of a free coupon of soap powder when they could cash in big, lol. The girl I met lives on a front line city with the Russian Special Forces moving in big time the other side. Yet she seems to have no desire to get with a WM quick and get the hell out of a situation where she could be slaughtered, raped, maimed, horribly disfigured by shelling/explosives. No she would rather look for guys for a free all expenses paid few days away to wherever and await the next horrifying onslaught, crazy! 

[Boethius]

Rich WM generally aren't going to the FSU.  Plus, there is something to leaving your country, your language, your culture.

I am not certain you were scammed.  Do you really believe a woman views a trip where she has to entertain a foreigner she's never met before as some sort of "vacation"? 

Many dating sites in Ukraine require women to meet with foreign men.  Have you ever considered that?  Or that she was looking for a match, but you weren't it?

[Boethius]

Funny that. My o/h was brought up in a conservative orthodox family and rarely even let's me pay a resteraunt bill. My knowledge of party girls extends to downtime with the men of the family in Odessa throwing dollar bills at them for a weekend to lose their underwear and the general disdain such girls are held in by the upper tiers of their female society know know every trick these girls pull to try and unseat them from their wealthy men.

This is too funny.  All those "upper tiers" of Ukrainian society are former commies who denounced religion in the past.  Their parents even did things such as harass believers and drive them 20 km out of the city to walk back to town in the middle of the night, for the sin of attending an Easter service.  This is now the  "cream" of Ukrainian society.  Which is partly why the country is still a mess.

As for hiding their wealth, of course they do that with each political change in office.  Because those hiding the wealth stole everything they have, and are afraid it will be confiscated.

[surfsportz]

Rich WM generally aren't going to the FSU.  Plus, there is something to leaving your country, your language, your culture.

I am not certain you were scammed.  Do you really believe a woman views a trip where she has to entertain a foreigner she's never met before as some sort of "vacation"? 

Many dating sites in Ukraine require women to meet with foreign men.  Have you ever considered that?  Or that she was looking for a match, but you weren't it?

She's still messaging me & skype video calling with me a week after we met & after I've been back in the US.  I've told her that I have decided that if I go back, I won't spend much money on our dates b/c I don't want her dating me for money.  Unless the agency was still paying her to pretend, I don't know why she would keep spending time communicating with me - maybe she is sincerely interested in me?  Hard to tell.

[surfsportz]

Well I think Surf said he got the tickets more or less free for some reason, perhaps he works for the airline or something. So considering he was just paying for hotel, the agency, the interpreter and meals out the hotel, meals & attractions of which would be at an extraordinary cheap rate I would say he got off with a pretty good trip regardless that she most likely wasn't into him and probably doing it for a few bucks.

Main thing to bear in mind Surf is that a few $ or £ is worth a lot out in the Ukraine (& Russia) these days, you had good company and meals for next to nothing, your fantasy was a cheap one. Some guys on here spend thousands to travel to these women get ripped off a whole lot more than you did. I wouldn't grip about the prices of meals its astoundingly cheap to what you'll pay in the UK & US and often good food too, she did you a favour. Also $70 per girl isnt too bad as long as you dont see too many places like Mordinson (Kharkiv) you'll pay a couple of thousand with apartment and still no guarantees. My recent experience of a girl in the Ukraine taught me the women there will pick up any freebie or money they can of WM if they are that way inclined. To be sure not to get these girls wasting your time, pay for as little as possible, avoid any agency that may be in for a cut however small, really get to know the girl first and make sure there is proper affection to you not including the mandatory welcome/gift receiving hug/holding arm. Keep at it, filter well first to avoid paying out later.     

Wish there was a like button.  Thx.  Yeah I agree.  I read lots first so I knew going in that I wouldn't lose much if the girls were getting paid a bit to meet with me.  At this point, girl #4 has continued communicating with me and we did a fairly long skype call recently, but I still suspect the agency paid her to keep it up a bit after my trip, b/c they know I know they operate in a way that means they're likely paying the girls to meet.  I fly free most of the way there b/c a friend of mine works for an airline.

[surfsportz]

Don't believe everything you read on the boards.

Let's revisit. Here is a 46 year old dude with 5 kids and one of them special needs that by his admission routinely "pulls" 20 year old poon that he believes to be 8 or 9 on the hot babe scales and not only that, they are not only of model quality, they are models. And they are also wife material. So, what he believes he should be doing is traveling abroad to Ukraine or Russia to date 20 year olds that are 10- 10.5 on the hot babe scale to find a wife. Why? Because his friend married one. And if his friend married one, he should be able to marry one too.

Surf is delusional, isn't grounded in any kind of reality and has all of the ingredients of a keyboard romeo. If he were a man of quality he'd be taking care of those 5 kids rather than looking to bed another kid.The guy has more growing up to do than you

This is hilarious.  I actually feel sorry for people like this who have nothing better to do in life than make things up and take things out of context & make assumptions & use faulty logic to try to tear down and demean other people.  What a sad life you must live to be motivated to write a post like this.   Let's clear up your wildly inaccurate post. 

1. I'm not sure why you manufactured something about a "special needs kid" - I don't have one & never said I did.  You're really that desperate to try to make other's look bad & make yourself look good?  Bizzare.

2. First of all, I respect women more than you & don't call them "poon" - they are women.  And you have misread my post when I talked about how I do in the dating scene in the USA.  I said I RARELY pull younger girls that are over a 7.  It is rare.  Then I said I have dated a ton.  I re-read it and I can see how you might have misunderstood this to mean I date a ton of young attractive girls.  I meant what I wrote: that I have dated a ton during the last 3 years.  A ton of women in general.  Not all young.  Not all super attractive.  But the girl I was referencing was 20 when we dated, she's 21 or 22 now, and she did do a couple of years of modeling & is that attractive.  Believe about me whatever you need to in order to feel better about yourself.

3.  I never said they were all wife material.  Some of the most attractive girls I've dated, all younger than 35, including (and especially) the girl I'm hanging out with lately & have been on and off for 18 months, are in some ways not ideal wife material.  But the 22 year old is ... if I could get over her being 5'8 (I prefer petite) - we're not dating anymore now anyway tho.

4. "If he were a man of quality" - I love that FB and other non-anonymous social media has mostly put a stop to people like you who know nothing about others but sit back and enjoy being judgemental and self-righteous & saying horrible things about complete strangers in order to feel superior.  Try that when you aren't anonymous, when you're arrogant, inaccurate, and juvenile comments will be seen by your friends & family ... you'll learn fast that you will feel much better about yourself by being kind, assuming the best about others, and being encouraging & positive & building others up rather than tearing them down.  Maybe that's why so many people in this forum are so negative & judgemental ... b/c they lurk in the anonymity of forums like this, staying away from Facebook & other more mainstream social media where friends & family and co-workers and acquaintances would excoriate them for this type of assinine behavior.   

I have 45% custody (fought very hard to get that) & am blessed/lucky enough to be able to work very little when my children are with me, so I can focus on them & being a great single dad.  Men of quality don't make assumptions & judge others without knowing a thing about them as you have.  But when my children are with their mother, I believe it is important to date & continue to seek a healthy relationship ... both for me and for the example I want to set in that way for my kids.  They tell me often they want to see me marry again & find someone and fall in love, etc. 

Why don't we make a bet - you and I.  We'll wager whether I'm a keyboard romeo, as you have stated, or whether the girls I've been dating (and the girl I'm currently hanging out with) are very attractive.  We'll let others in this forum be the judges ... but somehow I'd need to know that we are selecting unbiased judges - not your fellow forum lurkers with sad lives & no social game sitting around waiting for another newbie in the RWD forum that you can tear into in effort to win points in front of your internet friends.  If I could know that our judge panel were unbiased, I'd bet you a lot of money that an overwhelming percentage of the people on here would admit that the girls I've been regularly dating the last few years are very attractive.  But being a great dad is my #1 priority, and I'm far from perfect, but I think I do a pretty good job.  (My ex and I swallowed our pride & live across the street from each other now, so that our kids have access to both of us when they need us --- things like that are part of the gig when you have kids).

5) You are wrong again here when you say "looking to bed another kid" -- I normally date 27-35 - but only when they're mature.  I rarely (as said several times before) date younger than 27.  But I don't bed them, nor am I looking for that.  I'm saving sex for marriage - so dating for me is about finding a quality woman, one of character, one with a personality & world view and interests that are similar to mine, and investing to build something amazing with her, etc.  Obviously for you, women are "poon" and just there to be "bedded" - again, I feel sorry for you.  Someday you'll learn that they offer so much more than that & you'll learn to respect yourself more, after which you'll naturally have more respect for women.

I wish you no ill will, but you have a lot of growing up to do

[surfsportz]

You are all over the place, first you say you are hooking up easy on tinder, then you say it isn't working, then you say 7 and 8's. Now it is 8's and 9's, i am getting really confused.

Nothing against you, but your delusion on type of girls you are dating is probably giving the wrong ideas to lurkers. i don't think i ever told you to not try and aim for someone high up. i encourage you to do so, keep your standards high, message many, visit a few. You sound like a chill guy, i really hope you do well, but there is not need to falsely justify going up for women that are 9's or 10's. if you feel like you can do it, do it, don't let anyone here tell your otherwise, you know what type of women you can get better than anyone else here. You have years of experience at being you,nobody here knows you, problem with rating women is, someone that says an 8, could be a 6 for someone else, or a 10 for somebody else.

Re-read what you originally suggested.  You did tell me to stay within my league essentially -- to leave the more attractive girls to the types of guys who pull them.  That principle is true, but (thanks to a decent set of genes & a bunch of other blessings I had nothing to do with ... and to some good choices I make about my diet & fitness) I'm fairly often able to date pretty attractive women.  The 8's and 9's I date don't come super often, and they're usually in their late 20s and early 30s.  But I'm not all over the place, you guys would rather take things out of context in order to try to make a point or to tear someone else down than to just assume the best.  I'll make you the same offer I made the other guy: let's wager. 

In reality tho, other than coming here to see if I can find consistent advice that will help me decide whether to invest any more time pursuing FSU women, I doubt I'll ever post again.   The anonymity of these old-school discussion forums attracts sad people with sad lives who tear others down to try to build themselves up, and brings out the worst in those people.   Plus, it simply isn't worth my time.  Best of luck to you

[Boethius]

She's still messaging me & skype video calling with me a week after we met & after I've been back in the US.  I've told her that I have decided that if I go back, I won't spend much money on our dates b/c I don't want her dating me for money.  Unless the agency was still paying her to pretend, I don't know why she would keep spending time communicating with me - maybe she is sincerely interested in me?  Hard to tell.

My post was to Trenchcoat, rather than you.

[Boethius]

The anonymity of these old-school discussion forums attracts sad people with sad lives who tear others down to try to build themselves up, and brings out the worst in those people.   Plus, it simply isn't worth my time.

That's quite a leap, based on the fact that, pardon the expression, not all posters are blowing smoke up your arse.

A young woman in Odesa who tells you she does not have communication apps on her phone is lying to you.  Babas in Ukraine have apps on their phones.  In many Ukrainian cities, even the trams have wifi. 

Not all members here are anonymous to each other.  I  happen to know FP's real name.  We correspond.  He knows my name.  He knows my husband's name.  There are other posters here with whom I communicate offline, and I would hazard a guess there are other posters with whom FP communicates.  Most posters here communicate with someone else posting here.  Some are FB friends.  Some skype each other.  Many have met IRL.

You have part time custody of five children, and want a hot young wife who is decades younger than you.  So, what, besides a blue passport, do you have to offer her?  If you knew anything of FSU culture, you would know that most FSUW are not apt to want to raise another woman's children.  Most of them will view your ex, particularly one living so close, with suspicion or wariness.

You have also stated you have no desire for more children.  FSUW, or at least, the ones who will make good wives, are hard wired to want a family life which includes at least one child.  The common view of life there is, you are born to get married, have children, and die.  So, although a young woman may tell you she doesn't want children, the likelihood of that being true is rather remote.  This forum is strewn with the stories of FSUW married to much older men, usually on the promise of no children, who left those men because of that very issue, usually once the FSUW had secured her citizenship.  I can name five off the top of my head (none of those men is currently married to a FSUW, BTW).

Faux Pas had you mixed up with another newish poster re the disabled child.  It wasn't something "manufactured to make himself look good".  How can the prospect of a disabled child make anyone look good?

I am a woman, and from what you have posted, I actually don't get the impression you respect women.  That was Faux Pas' point with the crude language.  Also, if you had read any of his posts, you would know he was a single father who raised children on his own, and did not pursue his lovely Russian wife until all his children were grown and launched.

We have read time and again the posts of men who "look a decade younger than their chronological age" and hence, are "entitled" to a woman decades younger.  Of course, they aren't chasing AW for this.  Nope, they go to a third world country, one where the current annual GDP is about US$3600 (it has dropped, to be fair) because . . . ?

Faux Pas has a daughter who is around 24.  I have a daughter who is younger, though an adult.  So yeah, to us, you are chasing young women who are still kids.  Would I want my daughter to throw away her youth on a man twice her age to raise his five kids, with the further stipulation she won't have kids of her own?  You're a father.  Take a wild stab at the answer.

There is no requirement that people with "non sad" lives support scenarios they find morally repugnant any more than do those with "sad" lives.

You will find that most posters here don't really care about age disparate relationships.  It's the other stuff you've posted that garnered the responses you received.

[Gator]

Well stated Bo. 

Maybe you should give him a break because it is difficult to get a true feeling for a place in one week of posting when FP and many of us have been posting and communicating for over 10 years.    Then again, that is a reason to not immediately dismiss some critical advice. 

[treadmilldude]

Sorry Surfsports, but you are a morally, spiritually bankrupt human being. ""So, for me, where I recently dated (for 5 months) an 8.5 that was 21 years old in the USA (model, extremely smart, mature, funny, spontaneous, adventurous, mother of 1, etc), if I can't level up a bit (like my friend did) by dating an FSU woman, then I'll keep my dating focus here in the USA."" No excuses, no justification for a 46 year-old grown man to be having sex with a 21 year-old girl. A 21 year-old girl is a Child. She is not yet a woman, she is a Child. You, Surfsports, are a grown man with a completely different set of life experiences as a 46 year-old grown man, relative to a 21 year-old child.

If I had a 21 year-old Daughter, I can promise you you would not come anywhere near my 21 year-old Daughter. Sick, twisted Dudes like you make me embarrassed to be of the male species. And no, you try that same 46 - 21 shit with any of my other male friends' 21 year-old daughter's, and they too would give you a one-way ticket to the Emergency Room. Having your jollies with a 21 year-old child would not be a pleasant experience for you Surfsports.

This entire thread makes me sick to my stomach. Advocating for a 46 year-old man to be having sex with a 21 year-old girl....it just makes me sick to my stomach.

[JayH]

What do you think?

        Others make comments from philosophical beliefs( prejudices). In some cases like FP-- his advice is blunt and I personally disagree with him and his "style" often-but --  at times his observations and advice is good-- and at the least valid and worth reading. He does have real life experience to draw on- as I pointed out-others have next to none. So be a little careful that you do not lump all the "negative" posters together as one.
       Some have a paranoia about age gap relationships and see it as a "one size fits all " deal. I am not one of them!
However-- 5 kids!! How many mothers?mm
       If you are serious in your search-- you will need to find a unique woman.You will need to be unique!
When the age issue comes up-- my big question is the guy himself. Some guys are "old" at 40-- that is the image a lot here have of age.
I have said this previously--the right guy-in the right circumstances - can beat the odds( the norm if you like)
     The problem here is that as soon as you put numbers on your search-- pre-conceived ideas flood into many here heads,The age gap argument is as old as searching in the FSUW.Much of history says that 20 years ago  girls were anxious to escape-you have seen Odessa today and you know it is not a bad place.
     As far as the specifics of your case go-- you would be well served to read forum generally-- and make some semi real life discussion in "CHAT" here on the forum. Guys ( & girls) can give you a mine of real information--and opinions on every issue you raised.

[dragonkid]

Surf, if you feel like you can do it, then do it. Just one thing to keep in mind, not so much that you have 5 kids. If you have money, a woman may not care. What she will be worried about it her financial future, when you die, what will happen to her? She won't have any kids with you, what stops you leaving everything you own to your 5 kids? even if you say you won't, she knows she'll need a child with you to secure her future. If you really want to land yourself an amazing woman, you will need to have a kid with her.

[Anotherkiwi]

No excuses, no justification for a 46 year-old grown man to be having sex with a 21 year-old girl. A 21 year-old girl is a Child. She is not yet a woman, she is a Child. You, Surfsports, are a grown man with a completely different set of life experiences as a 46 year-old grown man, relative to a 21 year-old child.

If I had a 21 year-old Daughter, I can promise you you would not come anywhere near my 21 year-old Daughter. Sick, twisted Dudes like you make me embarrassed to be of the male species. And no, you try that same 46 - 21 shit with any of my other male friends' 21 year-old daughter's, and they too would give you a one-way ticket to the Emergency Room. Having your jollies with a 21 year-old child would not be a pleasant experience for you Surfsports.

This entire thread makes me sick to my stomach. Advocating for a 46 year-old man to be having sex with a 21 year-old girl....it just makes me sick to my stomach.

What a load of precious bullshit!  When you first appeared on the forum I was prepared to give you the benefit of the doubt, because your posts at least had some semblance of reality.  Now?  All you do is pontificate in such a way that nobody imagines for a moment that you are serious, and you're obviously just trying to wind up surfsportz.

Whatever you may think or say (either in real life or your fantasy world on this forum), a 21 year old woman is NOT a child, and she can date and/or have sex with whomsoever she pleases.  It is not up to you, or your imaginary friends, to dictate how your ADULT children behave.  If their choices are bad, they will learn from them - we all have.  If their choices are good, you should rejoice.  Of course they may pick really lousy lovers/spouses - they may also pick superb ones.

Whatever the age difference may be (whether it's 25 years or 25 minutes), don't interfere.  Sure, let them know your opinion - but leave them alone after that.  The quality of their relationship with you will surely play a part in how they eventually resolve this particular conundrum.  Threatening bodily harm, on the other hand, sounds like the action of a jealous teenage boyfriend - not a mature parent.

[Faux Pas]

That's quite a leap, based on the fact that, pardon the expression, not all posters are blowing smoke up your arse.

A young woman in Odesa who tells you she does not have communication apps on her phone is lying to you.  Babas in Ukraine have apps on their phones.  In many Ukrainian cities, even the trams have wifi. 

Not all members here are anonymous to each other.  I  happen to know FP's real name.  We correspond.  He knows my name.  He knows my husband's name.  There are other posters here with whom I communicate offline, and I would hazard a guess there are other posters with whom FP communicates.  Most posters here communicate with someone else posting here.  Some are FB friends.  Some skype each other.  Many have met IRL.

Nice post Boe. There isn't much left for me to add.

This is hilarious.  I actually feel sorry for people like this who have nothing better to do in life than make things up and take things out of context & make assumptions & use faulty logic to try to tear down and demean other people.  What a sad life you must live to be motivated to write a post like this.   Let's clear up your wildly inaccurate post.

My post isn't near as inaccurate as you'd like it to be and we both know it, don't we? My apologies on confusing you with the newbie that has an autistic child. But, there was nothing else in my post that I would take back. You needed to hear it, whether you like it or not makes me not one wit. Many of us have heard your song many times before. We know you from what you tell and you've told a lot. Just remember that for the last 10 years I have been living what you've just now began to fantasize about. I said what I said not so much as a learning opportunity for DK but a reality check for you. You missed it and I would wager you incapable of seeing anything outside your delusion.

I've met quite a few people from RWD in person and I consider those people and others  here as friends. It doesn't appear that there is a chance for that to happen with you and I. I don't generally meet people so they can show me what a tough guy they are and can set me straight on the world but I might be willing to make an exception for you. Keep me posted of where you are and a chance encounter could very likely be in our future.

[dragonkid]

Surf try and not let people on here bother you too much, take some of the advice given to you. I don't know you, if you say you are fit, good looking, blah blah blah, that is great. Good for you, but remember that these foreign relationships are not like western relationships. You need to understand what exactly are you offering to these women. Is it good looks? I been to the gyms in russia, plenty of great looking guys, is it money? have you got $5m in cars? Because when i was in stavropol, there was a guy my age, decent looking with that, amount of young guys driving $100k mercs was higher than what i saw in moscow or even in london.

for me this is a 7



an 8



a 9



Now if you want a legit 9, you will need to really go and look deep within yourself. See what you are offering, if you don't want kids. I don't see why any 9 would want to go with you. A foreign marriage is like a business deal, you give stability, you get a beautiful wife. You are trying to rework the game, she needs assurance that once you die, she will live the life she has grown accustom to. Kids are a perfect way for her to have leverage over you, if you want to dodge the kids and still aim for 9's, you will get burnt. I don't care how great looking you are or think you are, there are better looking guys, with more money than you, offering more than you can. If you mistook a 7 for me, for a 9 for yourself, i have no idea about these sort of women. Maybe if you got a decent wallet (few million) , and decent looking, she will be okay for it for a while.

[GatoMoon]

Surf try and not let people on here bother you too much, take some of the advice given to you. I don't know you, if you say you are fit, good looking, blah blah blah, that is great. Good for you, but remember that these foreign relationships are not like western relationships. You need to understand what exactly are you offering to these women. Is it good looks? I been to the gyms in russia, plenty of great looking guys, is it money? have you got $5m in cars? Because when i was in stravpol, there was a guy my age, decent looking with that, amount of young guys driving $100k mercs was higher than what i saw in moscow or even in london.

for me this is a 7



an 8



a 9



Now if you want a legit 9, you will need to really go and look deep within yourself. See what you are offering, if you don't want kids. I don't see why any 9 would want to go with you. A foreign marriage is like a business deal, you give stability, you get a beautiful wife. You are trying to rework the game, she needs assurance that once you die, she will live the life she has grown accustom to. Kids are a perfect way for her to have leverage over you, if you want to dodge the kids and still aim for 9's, you will get burnt. I don't care how great looking you are or think you are, there are better looking guys, with more money than you, offering more than you can. If you mistook a 7 for me, for a 9 for yourself, i have no idea about these sort of women. Maybe if you got a decent wallet (few million) , and decent looking, she will be okay for it for a while.

You did not mentioned who is your 10.  Is she your 10?