Meeting girl in her city, what are the risks?

[BillyB]

Also, girl is a bit blunt in her emails, now I know this tends to be the way of FSW but when I compliment her on her photos for example she says nothing of it, or if I send mine she just thanks me for them and that's it. I guess she could be talking to other men as well so wants to keep it short but just seemed a bit strange to me.

RW tend to be blunt. If she continues to be more blunt and short with you over time and not opening up more, chances are you're losing her. I remember you saying the girl uses Mamba. At the bottom of her profile you can look at the visits to her page and her rate of response. Don't be jealous. She is committed to nobody and you are both free to communicate with as many people as you want. You are in competition with other guys to win her over. Make yourself into the man women are competing for you.

If you end up losing this woman, it may be because your communication skills with the ladies isn't as sharp as it should be. Also, some of your may concerns you shared with us here may affect your ability to look like a guy that is relaxed and happy.

[dragonkid]

Look you said younger girls just want sex, which is bullshit. I seen the guys my age on fsu dating sites, older ones are even worse, chances are women are not going to be bedding a handsome hunk.

You then said they don't know what they want, because you have 50 years experience blah blah blah, based on your ex wife and step daughter. Now you changed your reasoning, which is bullshit again. There are exceptions, and boethius explained it to you more clearly than i did. i told you, if a woman genuinely loves a guy, then that is sometimes all there is to it for it to work out.

Now you changed your reasoning to the women probably want scammers. Again bullshit, i told most of the women i got close to, that i am not very eager to get married, explained them my reasoning, they still pursued. If they want to scam a guy, they would go after a cockold older man who will marry them in a heartbeat because he will know, that is the best he is ever going to do.

I am calling you out, because your initial post was stupid, you didn't give trench any room to manoeuvre, you shut down hope for him. Let me just bury you, i know a woman in fsu, a friend of a friend, seen her pictures, she is married to a guy from Denmark, she is studying architecture, and they meet up occasionally, both around the same age.

And that, I think, is the main difference between the FSU women that dragonkid has met, and those that most of the rest of us have met, dated and (occasionally) married.  For some of them, at least, dragonkid may well have represented "Mr. Close Enough."

Wrong, my ex was well off for a russian. £150 bag (fake designer, but genuine snakeskin leather),other bags at home, when i met her, she came back from a shopping trip with her aunt, bought her dad some stuff, guessing from the items, around £100 spent. She had 2 cats, and a husky, throw in pet food, her own apartment, parents had a house, they were buying a small hotel in sochi looking at £50k, her aunt put my ex on her will for her flat in moscow. Two women i got serious about,both well of for russians, majority of the women i talk to are not in that bad of a situation. My ex never opened messages from other guys, thought she was bullshitting till i saw her account.

me and my brother were talking the other day about how some people think they are the exceptions when it comes to dating in russia, like you. i know what women want, i am not foolish enough to think i am physically or personality wise better than guys in russia. Women i talk to are more physically selective about their guys, so i doubt "many" of the guys here would do what i am able to do, wishful thinking though by yourself.

[dragonkid]

  Certainly, the young men I meet (and I meet a lot, thanks to having sons) are not like dragonkid.  They aren't thinking about how to bind a woman to them (which I think is not only a mistake, but misguided).  They mostly want an equal.

How am i trying to bind a woman?My intention was to never to bind a woman, i liked to give the women i dated freedom to go, maybe that is why some liked me.   All i did was ask you for some stuff about how these relationships play out long term, why some last, and others don't. i didn't expect you to label me as a guy who traps women in relationships, i really didn't see that coming.


You don't know how it is to be a guy at my age group, before i found out about fsuw, you even know this, because i told you in pm. I had zero intention of ever settling down in life, for me it was stupid, the toxic marriages i hear about, sexless marriages, i liked going my own way. I dated a bulgarian girl in the uk, whilst i was doing my masters for oil and gas, i was in the middle of a lecture, felt so out of place, guys getting excited about the youngs modulus of a pipe, i saw death in their eyes. Reassessed what i wanted in life, decided it wasn't right for me, came back, relationship with her broke down due to distance. Found fdating, and got hooked, it is like watching colour screen tv, can you go back to black and white?maybe before i wanted my equal, but after you try out the fsuw search, hard to ever go back.

Lots of guys are tired of marriage, not relationships, but marriage in general. They don't want to mess about with countless women, but want to have the freedom, not be put in a bad situation, and forced to endure it. That is something i like, a balanced life, between two worlds. You don't like that i mentioned to trench how some guys trap their women, but some men feel trapped also, in marriages they don't want, a woman i was with in the Uk, not the bulgarian, girl from a well off family, wanted me to settle down, she tried her hardest to trap me. Happens to a lot of guys, that is why i am on the ropes about marriage, i want to go to russia, date a woman, take my time, and develop genuine feelings, not something out of desperation, because she wants a better life, and i love her beauty.

I have a feeling this is probably because of this post, and it offended you because it was slightly misogynist

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=19886.msg434026#msg434026

[2tallbill]

Look you said younger girls just want sex, which is bullshit.

Gator can defend himself, but please quote where he said that.

[Jumper]

DK you've  had a relationship with one RW, and you have never lived there.All these pen pal/text type romances /flirting/friendships mean very very little,  and you should know that.
 It's quite likely Trench coats girl understands it better than TC or yourself, and its likely part of why shes short /blunt etc, as words mean almost nothing in FSU culture, actual actions mean something.
She is unlikely to invest any real valuable time in a text/email  relationship, until she see's, or is certain, he would actually act .
(unless a lot of spare time or really bored)

 You have  good points at times, but in your shoes i simply wouldn't be so positive your insights into FSUW  and culture are 100% accurate.

I've lived there a few years, dated a lot , and also been married twice, (7 years once, and  5 years currently)with close ties to family friends there etc . I can also speak and read *ok* level,
and i still barely scratch the surface of the culture or deeply understanding it.

 Any forum is only going to be able to give very  general outlooks or lets say stereotype style of advice.
Gator saying young people (whether men or women) are generally not ready to settle down is accurate in the bigger context pretty much anywhere.

Yes , FSUW tend to marry a bit younger in age, a lot of cultural pressure to do so ,but  that is less every year.
Yes certainly I know plenty of RW that would be serious at a young age, but  more that wouldn't be.
My wife who has a thousand times  more insight than you,  gators,  or my own experience would allow,  would certainly tell you that ones that DO marry young,  generally learn in short time they weren't ready despite thinking so, and that's part of the high divorce rates.
So it's not like that's some great point for Trench Coat attempting to date a seemingly semi interested  uni student.

  She looks back and says she was far too young in her early twenties to be married (and she dint) but she thought then she was.



 Hey I'm the first one to generally say , get on plane, take a chance !!
So its not like i'm raining on TC's  parade,
he wanted to be cautious, and asked advice.

People are different and have very different risk aversion levels.

 I'm not cautious about the types of  things he is.
If i wanted to meet her then I  would, if it dint amount to anything,
 or if it headed towards some form of soft scam, i'd just chuckle and move on , there are plenty of nice single women in Nikolaev for a single guy to date.
Frankly it would take more than the referenced short blunt style responses to catch my interest, but i don't know what he has said ,or the effort he has put in to to attract hers.It's a two way street.


   I never looked at any such  adventure as a waste of time or money. As it  was surely educational or I hopefully learned something ? It should have at least been a bit fun or interesting if approached with the right attitude, and at very least  weeded out one person that i wouldn't be compatible with, (or me with them)
 

 I wish him good luck, and yes , as a generality i'd advise him to
look for women , 25yo or so and up.
A uni student who seemed only mildly interested anyway,  would be dropped unless he is 24 himself?

That doesn't mean there arn't dead serious about marriage  22 yo uni students. lol
It means,  in my opinion, regardless where their head is out now,
 they have a lot of maturing and life experience to gain which will likely change their perspectives and what they really want in life. That seems a poor time to be making life long commitments. The tipping point generally seems to be mid twenties to 30's.
A million exceptions to the rule if he's feeling lucky? but he seems risk averse in the first place
 

[2tallbill]

 I wish him good luck, and yes , as a generality i'd advise him to
look for women , 25yo or so and up.
A uni student who seemed only mildly interested anyway,  would be dropped unless he is 24 himself?

That doesn't mean there arn't dead serious about marriage  22 yo uni students. lol
It means,  in my opinion, regardless where their head is out now,
 they have a lot of maturing and life experience to gain which will likely change their perspectives and what they really want in life. That seems a poor time to be making life long commitments. The tipping point generally seems to be mid twenties to 30's.
A million exceptions to the rule if he's feeling lucky? but he seems risk averse in the first place
 

+1
I agree on many levels.

[2tallbill]

Thanks all for the advice I much appreciate it, particularly the scam I have to look out for 

The city is Nikolaev so it would mean a journey for me from Odessa. She contacted me on a dating site (pay monthly) she is a fair bit younger than me. She apparently cant Skype as she has an old computer/connection or something, she is a uni sutedent. So this makes me cautious. However, from her letters I would say she is typically blunt FSW which I don't mind as long as its not too extreme. I've looked on VK and no profile as yet found. We are only in the early stages of messaging, she just seems happy to want to message, its been about a couple dozen letters now back and forth. She says she prefers meeting in her own city for safety, etc, what the man is expected to do. She says she is willing to travel to another city under the right circumstance if the man pays. So given her preference to visit in her own city leaves me wondering as though scams can happen I would have thought scammer would prefer another city unless for convenience. No sign of any path to scam yet form her, she seems pretty straight up so far in her letters to me.

I am going to give some general advice so don't take it too personally.

1. You are chasing a girl who is too young.
2. You are chasing a girl who won't Skype, forget can't, she can but doesn't want to.
3. You are already making excuses for her.
4. You are risk adverse, yet engaging in risky behavior. 


My advice is as follows

1. Dump the girl and to avoid girls that are less than 25 years old and
better yet avoid girls who are less than 27.
2. My next piece of advice is to dump any girl who won't go on Skype.
3. Write 100 girls who are 27 years old that you like their looks. Explain
that you are looking for a woman for marriage and not looking for a pen pal
or just a friend.

Some of them won't respond, so you don't need to worry about them.

4. Quickly weed out any girl that doesn't stand out as better than the others.

5. One girl should stand out, if she doesn't then dump them all and write another
100 girls.

6. Get the stand out girl on Skype and talk to her every day for two weeks. Tell her
that you are going to fly to see her and that she needs to pick you up at the airport. 

7. Buy a ticket to see her in her city, rent an apartment DON'T STAY AT HER APARTMENT
AND DON'T STAY IN A HOTEL. Rent an apartment near the city center.

8. Send her your ticket information and where your apartment is

9. Tell her that she is going to fall madly in love with you.

10. Go meet the girl. If there is mutual chemistry then you need to seduce the girl and
get to know everything about her.

If you don't have sex with the girl then she wasn't into you and you need to rely on your
backup plan.

Stop worrying so much and stop chasing girls under 25.

Udachi!

Bill

[dragonkid]

Yes one relationship with a girl in the fsu, but 80% girls i talked to wanted to pursue further, of those that did, 95%+ were going to fly down to meet me. Gator talked about that my dads country is more marriage based, my dad came to the UK, iranian foreign man, in mid 1980's, what i already told gator, but he refuses to accept, my dad was living a hectic life even back then in the uk, with girls younger than himself. If you meet the guy, you will understand why he punched above his weight, he  is genuinely the best sales person you would meet, he ran a wholesale business , suppliers would just say that they never met a person that could sell as good as he could. He can make people love him with ease, he doesn't sell, he just builds relationships out of nothing, being a muslim, he would make english guys that hate foreigners love him, he drives around with an english flag, he really understands how to get people to love him.

Now the point is, gator does not understand, every person is different, what something might not work for him, may work for others. I myself, can say chances of meeting a british model, like blah blah blah, is 0, you need to be a rich arab prince, but a guy could walk along 6'4, blonde, blue eyes, built like a linebacker, and prove me wrong, becase guess what, i am not a guy who is  6'4, blonde, blue eyes, built like a linebacker. You can not give generic advice, the way he worded it was as if , dating a woman under 25 would always result in failure. Depends on the individual, i am not here to debate if women under 25 are ready, chances are they are not, my age group is pretty mucked up, but i met western women (a few), that were ready to settle down before 25, so if he is saying, he couldn't find any woman past 30 that would settle down, back in the days when he was my age, i doubt he can give out advice on what people can and cannot achieve. That is all i was trying to point out.

[Boethius]

How am i trying to bind a woman?My intention was to never to bind a woman, i liked to give the women i dated freedom to go, maybe that is why some liked me.   All i did was ask you for some stuff about how these relationships play out long term, why some last, and others don't. i didn't expect you to label me as a guy who traps women in relationships, i really didn't see that coming.

I may have misunderstood you, but I'm referring to your posts about having a few kids and keeping a wife at home rather than working, so she is dependent on her husband.  I assumed that was what you wanted in your life.

You don't know how it is to be a guy at my age group, before i found out about fsuw, you even know this, because i told you in pm. I had zero intention of ever settling down in life, for me it was stupid, the toxic marriages i hear about, sexless marriages, i liked going my own way. I dated a bulgarian girl in the uk, whilst i was doing my masters for oil and gas, i was in the middle of a lecture, felt so out of place, guys getting excited about the youngs modulus of a pipe, i saw death in their eyes. Reassessed what i wanted in life, decided it wasn't right for me, came back, relationship with her broke down due to distance. Found fdating, and got hooked, it is like watching colour screen tv, can you go back to black and white?maybe before i wanted my equal, but after you try out the fsuw search, hard to ever go back.

I don't know what it is like to be a British man, but I do know the lives of men in your age range.  I worked with them (as clients and I mentor young lawyers), and my son has friends in your age range. 

I think you are generalizing too much about sexless marriages.  I really doubt most marriages are sexless, at least, if studies are to be believed.  Subject to health issues, a sexless marriage is usually a symptom of something other than sex being amiss in the marriage.

Lots of guys are tired of marriage, not relationships, but marriage in general. They don't want to mess about with countless women, but want to have the freedom, not be put in a bad situation, and forced to endure it. That is something i like, a balanced life, between two worlds. You don't like that i mentioned to trench how some guys trap their women, but some men feel trapped also, in marriages they don't want, a woman i was with in the Uk, not the bulgarian, girl from a well off family, wanted me to settle down, she tried her hardest to trap me. Happens to a lot of guys, that is why i am on the ropes about marriage, i want to go to russia, date a woman, take my time, and develop genuine feelings, not something out of desperation, because she wants a better life, and i love her beauty.

I think people sometimes feel trapped by their situations.  I would hazard a guess it is usually about responsibility when children arrive.  Marriages change when children arrive, as the children become the primary focus.  In relationships between adults, this is expected and will not stress the marriage.


I think if you have this feeling that you will be trapped, then marriage is not for you.  That's ok, it is not for everyone.  But, I think looking from outside, and expecting that you will make the same mistakes others have made is unwise.  You have to know yourself, and know what will make you happy.  What works for you may not be what works for someone else.

I have a feeling this is probably because of this post, and it offended you because it was slightly misogynist

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=19886.msg434026#msg434026

No, that didn't offend me.

[treadmilldude]

2TallBill, excellent post and I agree with every single point you made with only one minor, tiny exception.  "If you don't have sex with the girl then she wasn't into you and you need to rely on your backup plan." I certainly do not agree with this piece of advice.

OK, what am I missing here?    A majority of the relationships I've had in in my life, we had sex within the first 4 to 5 dates. Yes, in my experience, I agree with you Bill that sex is just a natural component to a new relationship where a guy really likes a girl and the girl really likes the guy. Sex is fun, very enjoyable, not just for me, but for the girls I have been with as well. Many times, we have talked about it, and that intimacy (sex) has actually brought us closer together, taken us to a deeper level of respect for each other. Made us want to become even closer post sex.

But there have been a few relationships earlier in my life, when sex was a lot more important to me than it is right now, where by the 4th or 5th date, I will admit, I was very into the girl and I wanted sex, but she was just not ready at that point in the relationship to be intimate. I do not understand what is wrong with this?  I do not fault the girl for wanting to delay sex and just wait, I see nothing abnormal or wrong with the girl wanting to wait. In hindsight, looking back at these relationships where the girl wanted to wait and take things very slowly, with maybe a couple of exceptions, these women's reluctance to have sex with me was in no way, shape or form indicative of a lack of interest in me or a lack of wanting to make a commitment to our relationship. With maybe a couple of exceptions, the women's reluctance to have sex with me was not a harbinger of the relationship going south. Not at all, most of those relationships went pretty well for me, the girl was genuinely very interested in wanting to further the relationship and be a couple with me long-term, albeit without sex initially.

I told the girl (Olya 33 Gomel Belarus with a 7 year-old Daughter) whom I thought was "the one" (whom I have since realized I will never be able to be with because of a very aggressive and jealous ex-husband who about 6 weeks ago decided he was going to go all-in in getting to see his Daughter way more often than he had been seeing her the last 3 years since he divorced Olya, as well as very suddenly going from being more than 2 years behind on alimony, to suddenly completely caught up in child support payments to Olya), maybe on our 3rd Skype session, that it was my strong preference to not have sex on my first trip to see her in Gomel. I wanted to wait until my second trip, or if she wanted to, even later than that, as I did not want there to be any pressure on either of us to have sex that could potentially cloud a very warm, loving, budding relationship. As it turns out, Olya let me know several times she found me extremely attractive, she had never been with a guy that looked like me, and she really, really, really did not want to forego sex on my first trip. But that is maybe just something unique to Olya, there is also a good chance the girl I end up meeting and courting in either Kharkiv or Belarus in August, will agree with me that abstaining from sex on my first trip is the wisest course of action for us.

Bill, I just do not see anything wrong with a FSU woman wanting to be cautious and deliberate in how she begins a relationship with Trenchcoat, me or any other US Man. Nothing wrong in the least bit if Trenchcoat travels to Ukraine, meets a wonderful woman, spends several days with her, she is wonderful in every respect and there is great mutual chemistry between them, yet she decides she will not have sex with Trenchcoat on his first visit. I see nothing wrong with this, I just do not Bill. And I do not see her decision to not have sex with Trenchcoat as being a reliable indicator of her seriousness towards Trenchcoat.

Maybe you can shed some light on this for me Bill. You are more experienced with FSU women so of course I defer to you on these matters and I appreciate your opinions very much. Thank you Bill. Hope you and your handsome little boy are doing well there in North Dakota.   Please post some more pictures of your Son, he is really handsome and I enjoy seeing the happiness and joy in his eyes.

[2tallbill]

2TallBill, excellent post and I agree with every single point you made with only one minor, tiny exception.  "If you don't have sex with the girl then she wasn't into you and you need to rely on your backup plan." I certainly do not agree with this piece of advice.

If you talk to a girl every single day on Skype for a month or three. You finally meet,
if you have mutual chemistry then sex will happen. Sure it's possible to screw it
up but if you start taking off her clothes soon enough she will be naked.

Udachi!

Bill

[calmissile]

I am going to give some general advice so don't take it too personally.

1. You are chasing a girl who is too young.
2. You are chasing a girl who won't Skype, forget can't, she can but doesn't want to.
3. You are already making excuses for her.
4. You are risk adverse, yet engaging in risky behavior. 


My advice is as follows

1. Dump the girl and to avoid girls that are less than 25 years old and
better yet avoid girls who are less than 27.
2. My next piece of advice is to dump any girl who won't go on Skype.
3. Write 100 girls who are 27 years old that you like their looks. Explain
that you are looking for a woman for marriage and not looking for a pen pal
or just a friend.

Some of them won't respond, so you don't need to worry about them.

4. Quickly weed out any girl that doesn't stand out as better than the others.

5. One girl should stand out, if she doesn't then dump them all and write another
100 girls.

6. Get the stand out girl on Skype and talk to her every day for two weeks. Tell her
that you are going to fly to see her and that she needs to pick you up at the airport. 

7. Buy a ticket to see her in her city, rent an apartment DON'T STAY AT HER APARTMENT
AND DON'T STAY IN A HOTEL. Rent an apartment near the city center.

8. Send her your ticket information and where your apartment is

9. Tell her that she is going to fall madly in love with you.

10. Go meet the girl. If there is mutual chemistry then you need to seduce the girl and
get to know everything about her.

If you don't have sex with the girl then she wasn't into you and you need to rely on your
backup plan.

Stop worrying so much and stop chasing girls under 25.

Udachi!

Bill

Agree nearly 100% with your comments......

7. Buy a ticket to see her in her city, rent an apartment DON'T STAY AT HER APARTMENT
AND DON'T STAY IN A HOTEL. Rent an apartment near the city center.

Probably a good idea to add some clarification here.  Seeing you in her city means that she is not trying to hide you from her family and friends.  A good sign.

A reason to not stay at her apartment is because if things do not work out, it is much easier to say goodbye if you are not sharing an apartment.

Staying at a rented apartment is a much preferable choice to a hotel.  You can do your own cooking, laundry, and feel more free to do what you want.  It also allows some separation in the event you need some privacy.

10. Go meet the girl. If there is mutual chemistry then you need to seduce the girl and
get to know everything about her.

If you don't have sex with the girl then she wasn't into you and you need to rely on your
backup plan.

IMO you don't need to seduce the girl (sexually).  Perhaps a better word would be to court her and show her you are interested in her.

I don't necessarily agree with your statement about having sex with her (without some qualifications).  Women that were raised in the city and upper/middle class of Ukraine society are not as likely to want to have sex the first night they meet you.  Some do not want to see themselves as having loose morals.  However, what a difference a few days can make.   

I would not suggest pushing the sex question at all.  My experiences with UA women taught me that the way into their hearts is to spend a lot of time with them, showing interest in their lives and history, as well as having a real interest in learning their culture. If they have children, you score a lot of points asking a lot of questions about their children and showing an interest in meeting them.  This all seemed to be much more successful than flowers and restaurants, etc.

I am laughing now thinking about the story of shortly after I met Larissa.  After our first platonic date, I sent a dozen roses to her home.  A year or so later her mother told me that shortly after the flowers arrived, Larissa asked her "Why did he waste money on flowers.... I can't eat flowers!"  I guess everyone is different, but it was a lesson for me.   Larissa was much more appreciative of my interest in her family, children and learning the culture.  In particular, it was a big hit for her mother who seemed to like me from the beginning.

Lastly, how do you know if the gal is into you.  In my experiences, the first few platonic dates feel a little aloof.   What is really happening is that she is extracting information about you and you do not even realize it.  In effect, she is sizing you up as a future husband.  During this period she is likely to not be crawling all over you and discussing plans for the future.  Some men may become discouraged and move on.  This can be a mistake.  If her analysis of your character and husband qualities pass her tests,  there will be time very soon that you will see a radical change, maybe overnight.  Once she has 'selected' you, it will be hard to get out of her sight and things move very fast in her mind.  There is a statement that has been bandied about on the forums for years..."When a FSUW has decided you are her choice for a husband, there is no ambiguity and there will be no doubt in your mind".  This is soooo true.

IMO, one of the problems men have that live in the USA is that they are so limited in time and finances that it creates an environment where they feel they have to go through this process like a production line with a strict timetable.  It's unfortunate because romances take time to develop and the failure to connect can be discouraging.

I congratulate the men that have made many trips and keep going back looking for the 'right one'.  Remember that networking can  be as good or a better method of finding your love.  Make the best of friends you have met in UA and ask them to introduce you to their friends and attend their social events.

Good luck

Edit:  Read to and approved by Larissa.     

[ML]

Note:  Big Bill didn't say you need to have sex on first date.  He said if no sex by end of trip, then probably the relationship isn't going to proceed. 

But then, depends on how much time you spent with her before you left.  If you were doing a WMVM, and she was near the end  of the trip, then there might not have been enough time.

But the rule is . . . there is no rule as to how fast the sex might occur.  A hundred variables come into play concerning her mental state and your mental state, and other circumstances foreseen and unforeseen.

I had a few gals who came directly to my apartment from train  or bus station . . . and within less than two hours said they wanted to go to bed with me.  This was our first meeting, but we had some good email exchanges before which were getting a little bit steamy at the end or at least very, very suggestive.  And these gals were all high caliber as far as education, professional jobs, most had a child or two, etc.

On the other extreme, a few gals I went on 6-7 dates with and even some sleepovers (separate beds or even rooms) before any sex occurred.  In a couple of instances, no sex on first trip, but was on second trip.  But, on such second trip, it was not just to see them.  I would have never gone back to see a gal on an exclusive basis if there had been no sex on first trip.

And don't forget to factor in there is this thing called menstruation.  I don't understand it completely . . . but it can interfere with any sex planning that is on a time table regarding X number of dates before . . .

[Anotherkiwi]

Wrong, my ex was well off for a russian. £150 bag (fake designer, but genuine snakeskin leather),other bags at home, when i met her, she came back from a shopping trip with her aunt, bought her dad some stuff, guessing from the items, around £100 spent. She had 2 cats, and a husky, throw in pet food, her own apartment, parents had a house, they were buying a small hotel in sochi looking at £50k, her aunt put my ex on her will for her flat in moscow. Two women i got serious about,both well of for russians, majority of the women i talk to are not in that bad of a situation. My ex never opened messages from other guys, thought she was bullshitting till i saw her account.

Jeez, you really take the cake.  I thought English was your first language, but maybe I was mistaken.    READ WHAT I WROTE, AND STOP JUMPING TO STUPID CONCLUSIONS ABOUT WHAT YOU THINK I MEANT!!!!!  I never wrote anything about material wealth.

me and my brother were talking the other day about how some people think they are the exceptions when it comes to dating in russia, like you. i know what women want, i am not foolish enough to think i am physically or personality wise better than guys in russia. Women i talk to are more physically selective about their guys, so i doubt "many" of the guys here would do what i am able to do, wishful thinking though by yourself.

Again, you can't be bothered reading what's in front of your eyes! You have no idea about what I'm like, or my experience with women (in general - I've said often enough that I've only visited the FSU twice), or anything else about me.  Unlike you, I've never posted anything specific about the women I've written to or dated, nor would I - that's part of the Netiquette which I mentioned in a post last week that you obviously couldn't be bothered reading.

As for me being "an exception" when it comes to dating in Russia, or thinking that I would want to do what you are able to do - get over yourself.  Of course there are men my age who want to date the women you date - but there are a hell of a lot more who don't.  I'm one of them.

[I/O]

Risks? You could end up with 4 kids and a PITA wife - I did. Someone mentioned losing a kidney - they got off light...

[Trenchcoat]

Yes! It is a problem. Our women aren't able to do compliments to men. They like to get complements

Thought your the best one to ask on this, a bit of a weird situation seems to have cropped up. I noticed on the girls profile the other day on Mamba that she has somenow sexual preferences down stuff like bondage, etc. I missed this originally so thought I would question her on it. She has however not written back since, it's been every day to date but now it's been a couple of days or so. I get the feeling that she does not want to talk about this, but why then put it down? To date conversation has mainly been on mundane stuff and she seems the serious type do I'm finding this behaviour a bit odd. Any ideas?

[dragonkid]

Jeez, you really take the cake.  I thought English was your first language, but maybe I was mistaken.    READ WHAT I WROTE, AND STOP JUMPING TO STUPID CONCLUSIONS ABOUT WHAT YOU THINK I MEANT!!!!!  I never wrote anything about material wealth.

FSUW are more likely to marry "Mr. Close Enough" because for most of them, their options are more restricted than are those of WW.

You bolded out this from your response to Boethius, tell me what options the women i am talking to are lacking, an older woman only has older guys to date, Young women in her early 20's, has an army of older guys trying to relive their youth in any way possible. I have seen the messages, eventually these guys lose faith, or get burnt, and realise it is too late for them. I am beginning to think you are the same sort of person, 2 trips, and you been on here for many years now, not sure what is wrong with you.

Jeez, you really take the cake.  I thought English was your first language, but maybe I was mistaken.    READ WHAT I WROTE, AND STOP JUMPING TO STUPID CONCLUSIONS ABOUT WHAT YOU THINK I MEANT!!!!!  I never wrote anything about material wealth.

Again, you can't be bothered reading what's in front of your eyes! You have no idea about what I'm like, or my experience with women (in general - I've said often enough that I've only visited the FSU twice), or anything else about me.  Unlike you, I've never posted anything specific about the women I've written to or dated, nor would I - that's part of the Netiquette which I mentioned in a post last week that you obviously couldn't be bothered reading.

As for me being "an exception" when it comes to dating in Russia, or thinking that I would want to do what you are able to do - get over yourself.  Of course there are men my age who want to date the women you date - but there are a hell of a lot more who don't.  I'm one of them.

Can't and won't are two different things, you been on here 7 years, god knows when your search actually started. Why have you only gone on two trips? You must not be as good as you think you are.i am just calling it as i see it, you are talking a lot behind your keyboard making assumptions about the women i meet,and me, but it is clear you are a talker. I am going on my second trip in a few days for this year, plan on making my expat move within this year, what exactly are you doing except talking and spending years without doing fuck all?

I will give you a chance to not be a keyboard warrior like jay, i am offering you a skype call, and you can repeat everything you say over a mic and camera. Jay already backed down, are you going to pussy out like him? You talk a lot about me making assumptions about you, just like you are making assumptions about me, i will answer all your questions over a video skype call, i just want to see what a troll looks like.

[dragonkid]

I may have misunderstood you, but I'm referring to your posts about having a few kids and keeping a wife at home rather than working, so she is dependent on her husband.  I assumed that was what you wanted in your life.

Trench was asking if keeping a woman away from a high density city would lower the chances of her running away. I just repeated what you told me how some relationships fail long term, and i said, trapping a woman makes me feel sick, i pointed that out twice. YOu think i will be able to have a marriage which makes me feel that way? I thought i made myself clear, if that is what he wants to do, that is how he will need to do it. Talking to my ex, when we were talking about her coming here, or us staying in Russia, i brought up the idea of her working as a personal trainer, i have no problem throwing a fsuw i marry into the lion's den (buff guys).  I never get jealous, had a guy openly say he wanted my fsu ex at the time infront of me, didn't faze me one bit, guy even bought her an iphone 6 which she turned it down, told her to take it, she was baffled why i just didn't give a crap.

I think you are generalizing too much about sexless marriages.  I really doubt most marriages are sexless, at least, if studies are to be believed.  Subject to health issues, a sexless marriage is usually a symptom of something other than sex being amiss in the marriage.

I shouldn't have said sexless marriage, but i read reports of it being like 3 times a month. I know women are different, some wanted it more than me at time, but i like something daily at least, and by the sounds of it, a lot of marriages lack this. You said something amiss in the relationship, but i hear sometimes it is just boredom in regards to their partner, and life in general, where people go down the route of polygamy, something which i will never do.

I think people sometimes feel trapped by their situations.  I would hazard a guess it is usually about responsibility when children arrive.  Marriages change when children arrive, as the children become the primary focus.  In relationships between adults, this is expected and will not stress the marriage.


I think if you have this feeling that you will be trapped, then marriage is not for you.  That's ok, it is not for everyone.  But, I think looking from outside, and expecting that you will make the same mistakes others have made is unwise.  You have to know yourself, and know what will make you happy.  What works for you may not be what works for someone else.

At the moment i am second guessing what it could be like, i have no clue because i just never really fell in love deeply. lust yes, but love, no, from what i hear, that takes a long time.

[dragonkid]

Thought your the best one to ask on this, a bit of a weird situation seems to have cropped up. I noticed on the girls profile the other day on Mamba that she has somehowsexual preferences down stuff like bondage, etc. I missed this originally so thought I would question her on it. She has however not written back since, it's been every day to date but now it's been a couple of days or so. I get the feeling that she does not want to talk about this, but why then put it down? To date conversation has mainly been on mundane stuff and she seems the serious type do I'm finding this behaviour a bit odd. Any ideas?

look, before i didn't know, maybe she was just not fully into you, but that is fine, it takes time, she has options, and won't drop her knickers for any guy. Bill expects too much from a woman too soon, genuine attraction takes a few messages, and definitely a skype call, or a few voice messages.

You said she messaged you, now about the bondage thing, i use mamba myself, go to her profile, where it says what i am looking for, can you see a long paragraph? That is probably her typing in detail about her escort services, i am thinking you put down sexual encounter, or something like that as what you are looking for, and maybe she picked up on that. She may just be sexually active, which is fine, as long as you are okay with that.

[Boethius]

Risks? You could end up with 4 kids and a PITA wife - I did. Someone mentioned losing a kidney - they got off light...

But are you having sex more than twice a month?   (Don't answer that.)

[Boethius]

Trench was asking if keeping a woman away from a high density city would lower the chances of her running away. I just repeated what you told me how some relationships fail long term, and i said, trapping a woman makes me feel sick, i pointed that out twice. YOu think i will be able to have a marriage which makes me feel that way? I thought i made myself clear, if that is what he wants to do, that is how he will need to do it.

OK.  But that is bad advice.  You can't trap a person and expect them to be happy.

I shouldn't have said sexless marriage, but i read reports of it being like 3 times a month. I know women are different, some wanted it more than me at time, but i like something daily at least, and by the sounds of it, a lot of marriages lack this. You said something amiss in the relationship, but i hear sometimes it is just boredom in regards to their partner, and life in general, where people go down the route of polygamy, something which i will never do.

[/size][size=78%] [/size]

Do you mean serial monogamy or cheating?  Doesn't polygamy ignore the needs of women?

At the moment i am second guessing what it could be like, i have no clue because i just never really fell in love deeply. lust yes, but love, no, from what i hear, that takes a long time.

No, it doesn't have to take a long time.  But the depth of love and truly knowing a person takes a lengthier period.

[2tallbill]

Agree nearly 100% with your comments......

10. Go meet the girl. If there is mutual chemistry then you need to seduce the girl and
get to know everything about her.

If you don't have sex with the girl then she wasn't into you and you need to rely on your
backup plan.

IMO you don't need to seduce the girl (sexually).  Perhaps a better word would be to court her and show her you are interested in her.

I don't necessarily agree with your statement about having sex with her (without some qualifications).  Women that were raised in the city and upper/middle class of Ukraine society are not as likely to want to have sex the first night they meet you.  Some do not want to see themselves as having loose morals.  However, what a difference a few days can make.   

I would not suggest pushing the sex question at all.  My experiences with UA women taught me that the way into their hearts is to spend a lot of time with them, showing interest in their lives and history, as well as having a real interest in learning their culture. If they have children, you score a lot of points asking a lot of questions about their children and showing an interest in meeting them.  This all seemed to be much more successful than flowers and restaurants, etc.

Edit:  Read to and approved by Larissa.     

Doug,

With nearly any advice there are exceptions. The OP had gone to the FSU, visited a girl, didn't have sex and didn't know where he stood with her and was contemplating visiting
her again. That was a while back. Now he is writing a different girl and I gave advice
with the previous history in mind. Regarding the first night, I never said the first night
although that happens often enough during a visit one with 3 months of romantic talk
before meeting.

I can tell if a woman is interested in me (especially one from the FSU) and just as
important I can tell if a woman isn't interested in me. (I know what you are thinking
how could any girl resist my charms  ) If a woman wasn't interest in me I moved
on. Many men spend a lot of time and emotions to meet one woman and when the
woman isn't attracted she sometimes feels obligated to be a good host and show him
around, and wants to let him down softly.

Then the man will look at any kind word or action as a possibility that she is coming
around and will eventually fall in love with him, when that stuff only happens in
Hollywood movies and never in real life.

For reading to Larissa
It's really her heart that you need to seduce. If you win her heart then everything else
falls into place.


Udachi!!

Bill

[dragonkid]

OK.  But that is bad advice.  You can't trap a person and expect them to be happy.[/size][size=78%] [/size]

I am pretty sure people's intention is to love and respect their partner, i don't believe in trapping a woman, but if that is what trench wants to do, it is his business. I pointed out to him, that some relationships,pictures,and stories are fake, someone can come on here and say i been with my wife for X years, we are happy, here is a professionally made photo, yet know nothing that happens behind closed doors.

I rather have a real relationship in some way, i still can't swallow the whole fsu search. No matter how much i shake it, i know what it is about, it is a play on financial weakness in fsu, but in one way, that is how dating is around the world. Atleast i know that if the women wanted money, they would go for other guys, with me there is some attraction that they probably don't get from other men who contact them on fsu search dating sites, in russia, there are plenty of great looking guys.

Do you mean serial monogamy or cheating?  Doesn't polygamy ignore the needs of women?

Sorry i meant Polyamorous

[Boethius]

I am pretty sure people's intention is to love and respect their partner, i don't believe in trapping a woman, but if that is what trench wants to do, it is his business

That is the antithesis of love.


My advice to him would be, find someone who loves you.

[Anotherkiwi]

Risks? You could end up with 4 kids and a PITA wife - I did. Someone mentioned losing a kidney - they got off light...

Look on the bright side - she's a great cook (unless what she cooked for me was a one-off)!  And she actually hacked your account and wrote this, didn't she?