How to deal with a girl that doesn't write good English?

[2tallbill]

Hmm, I don't think my husband could answer any of those things about me now.   Even the menu would be largely dependent on my mood.

I'll bet he could describe more than you think. I would be surprised if he couldn't
characterize several of your opinions on breast feeding. How much you would cover
up, around whom and where. What would you have done in a car with a crying baby
and a flat tire with a male friend of his in the car. What age do you think that breast
feeding should stop? etc. My guess is that he would know more than you might think.

The point wasn't the list but having ten thousand conversations about everything under
the sun.

How many times do guys marry girls and then come here to the forum to tell us that
their new wife had goofy ideas on who should tell her son from a previous marriage
when to go to sleep? or to make his bed or to get into the shower because they stink?

I can't believe they didn't speak for several hundred hours about that subject alone.

I can't believe when guys say that their wife thought that they should be doing
XY or Z instead of AB and C. I wonder why they didn't have that conversation?

Guys might know a girls opinion on a finger in the bum during sex but they don't
know that who is expected to take the trash out?

My point wasn't the list, the point was that you ask a girl everything about everything
and don't marry a stranger. 

[Boethius]

You are always strangers until you live together.


I think the most important thing is to know a person's fundamental values.  All that other stuff changes over time, in any event.  But, the core of who you are does not.

[2tallbill]

This is obviously where my first marriage went wrong.   Apart from breast-feeding (we didn't have any children) and the menu, I think that we would both have struggled to answer more than half of what you've stipulated.

Just out of interest, Bill, can you truly say that you've qualified in each of these with Angel Eyes?

I can only tell you that I asked her a zillion questions about everything under the sun.
We had thousands of conversations about various scenarios. The point wasn't whether
I know Angel Eyes breast feeding opinions (I do by the way) but that I had conversation
after conversation after conversation.

We had run through hundreds of scenarios with what to do if X happened to Smiley girl.
We had several dozens conversations on ground rules for arguing and respect for the
other person while arguing. We had a hundred conversations about misunderstanding
what I meant what one of us said, because I know how often this comes up with an
international couple.

I can tell you how she would put a roll of toilet paper on and what part of the tooth
pasted tube she would squeeze or her opinion if I left the toilet seat up or down.
I can guess her restaurant menu opinion about 70% of the time and when she orders
something that I think will be too spicy for her for example. I order what I think she
would have wanted and we end up trading most of the time.

We have fun little rituals, for example I always make a bite of what I ordered for her
to try. Often times I will order a dozen things alacarte and two plates and we will try
some of each thing. She is a good cook, and I will choke down anything she gives to
me the first time. My wife loves me and I am crazy about her.

Udachi!

Bill
 

[2tallbill]

You are always strangers until you live together.


I think the most important thing is to know a person's fundamental values.  All that other stuff changes over time, in any event.  But, the core of who you are does not.

Those could be added to the tablets of stone as could everything changes once
children enter the picture.

or

You don't know much about kids until you've had one yourself. Until you've sat
up trying to sooth a screaming baby at 3:00 am you probably don't know what
frayed nerves are.

Many of these international marriages are second marriages often with children
involved. People shouldn't assume that opinions on parenting will be the same.
Things like this need to be discussed.

[dragonkid]

I think the most important thing is to know a person's fundamental values.  All that other stuff changes over time, in any event.  But, the core of who you are does not.

i really don't see how knowing where she applies pressure on the toothpaste  would save a marriage.  Your fundamental values should be the same, you two have a personality that connects well, you can be yourself, so can she, and you both love those things about each other. For example, you can be a workaholic, your wife may be the one that enjoys little work, and trips everywhere, good luck making that last.

[2tallbill]

i really don't see how knowing where she applies pressure on the toothpaste  would save a marriage.  Your fundamental values should be the same, you two have a personality that connects well, you can be yourself, so can she, and you both love those things about each other. For example, you can be a workaholic, your wife may be the one that enjoys little work, and trips everywhere, good luck making that last.

That's because you read a post and didn't get the point being made and somehow
distilled it down to your post above.

The point wasn't about toothpaste the point was
DON'T GET MARRIED TO SOMEBODY YOU DON'T KNOW


I wrote that many men marry women that they don't know very well and then
they are surprised that girl they married had different opinions regarding
important things that they should have discussed before marriage.

This problem can be even worse with a language/communication barrier.

[Eduard]

I encourage even the guys who meet up with English teachers to spend the additional
time getting to know them. Guys like you who are in Europe can easily make many
trips and even pop over for 3 or 4 day weekends and such.

Those of us in North America or the lads in Oz and the Kiwi's should still spend at
least a year and multiple trips with boots on the ground getting to know the girl
inside and out. You should know at least 50 things that gross her out. If you know
only 49 then you haven't asked her enough questions. You should know her opinions
on everything from discipline of children to what foods make her fart. You should
know at least 25 of her deeply held opinions on breast feeding and 10 opinions that
on breast feeding that she could go either way with.

You should know at least a 20 things that she is afraid of and at least 20 movies she
cries like a baby watching. What's her opinion on things that need to be kept in the
refrigerator vs the cupboards? What is topic is off limits in her opinion while arguing?
What foods would she miss the most? what is her opinion on toothpaste tube rolling,
or the toilet paper roll? or the toilet seat?

You should be able to look at the menu and have a pretty good guess about what
her top ten selections would be along with her bottom ten selections. The riskiest
thing that men do in this venture is marrying a girl they don't know well enough and
not the scams, tricks or deceptions.

All good advice, but a man also should be aware of a couple of points:
1. "A girl has the right to change her mind" )) Trust me, this happens all the time with women ESPECIALLY after having a child. Some women change drastically, and this is universal whether they are from FSU, USA or China. So in order to maintain your relationship you must learn to be flexible and to compromise, compromise and compromise again.

Another point to be aware of, and it's also a universal thing, is that many women go through a midlife crisis of a sort usually approximately between ages 35 and 43 and many marriages do not survive this dangerous stage. When you marry a 25 year old expect her to be quite different at age 35. Her tastes, opinions, priorities will likely be different. She will have matured and become a lot more assertive, and may want different things in life. But if she is a good, righteous person with strong family values you and her will survive this providing you do your part to make things work. Marriage is work, remember that. You must learn to give without expecting anything in return - this is the key. A good woman will do the same, sometimes it may take her a little time but it will happen.


2. As far as "The riskiest thing that men do in this venture is marrying a girl they don't know well enough and not the scams, tricks or deceptions."
Let me say this. Universally women are good actresses and manipulators, even the good, honest ones. Men who are very experienced in relationships recognize this and deal with it. However most men are clueless. They think that women are similar to men and do not realize how different women perceive and process information, arrive to conclusions and act on them. The difference can be vast!

And this is true even when you marry within your own culture and language. When you marry a woman from a different culture with limited or somewhat limited English skills you really do face a serious challenge. Even a very experienced man who is well aware of the things I talked about above will have an enormous challenge figuring things out because of the cultural differences and the language limitations.
Hiring some one like me will save you a lot of time and guesswork, alternatively if you want to do this on your own I would follow Bill's advice: Take your time! Make many trips and make every effort to learn as much as possible about a woman.
The longer you wait the better chance you have that the woman has true interest in you. Women with ulterior motives and a hidden agenda usually don't want to wait for 2 years for a man to move forward with the marriage.

Hope this helps some one.

[Eduard]

You are always strangers until you live together.

And on the other hand you can live together for many years and still be strangers in many ways. Especially when you marry young and don't have much relationship experience.

I think the most important thing is to know a person's fundamental values.  All that other stuff changes over time, in any event.  But, the core of who you are does not.

exactly! I agree a 100%.

[Eduard]

All good advice, but a man also should be aware of a couple of points:
1. "A girl has the right to change her mind" )) Trust me, this happens all the time with women ESPECIALLY after having a child. Some women change drastically, and this is universal whether they are from FSU, USA or China. So in order to maintain your relationship you must learn to be flexible and to compromise, compromise and compromise again.

Another point to be aware of, and it's also a universal thing, is that many women go through a midlife crisis of a sort usually approximately between ages 35 and 43 and many marriages do not survive this dangerous stage. When you marry a 25 year old expect her to be quite different at age 35. Her tastes, opinions, priorities will likely be different. She will have matured and become a lot more assertive, and may will want different things in life. But if she is a good, righteous person with strong family values you and her will survive this providing you do your part to make things work. Marriage is work, remember that. You must learn to give without expecting anything in return - this is the key. A good woman will do the same, sometimes it may take her a little time but it will happen if she sees you doing that.


2. As far as "The riskiest thing that men do in this venture is marrying a girl they don't know well enough and not the scams, tricks or deceptions."
Let me say this. Universally women are good actresses and manipulators, even the good, honest ones. If a woman is interested in you (no matter what the motive) she'll know how to push all the right buttons and will tell you exactly what you want to hear. Whether she means that or not is another story.

Men who are very experienced in relationships recognize this and deal with it. However most men are clueless. They think that women are similar to men and do not realize how different women perceive and process information, arrive to conclusions and act on them. The difference can be vast!

And this is true even when you marry within your own culture and language. When you marry a woman from a different culture with limited or somewhat limited English skills you really do face a serious challenge. Even a very experienced man who is well aware of the things I talked about above will have an enormous challenge figuring things out because of the cultural differences and the language limitations.
Hiring some one like me will save you a lot of time and guesswork, alternatively if you want to do this on your own I would follow Bill's advice: Take your time! Make many trips and make every effort to learn as much as possible about a woman.
The longer you wait the better chance you have that the woman has true interest in you. Women with ulterior motives and a hidden agenda usually don't want to wait for 2 years for a man to move forward with the marriage.

Hope this helps some one.

[Muzh]

All good advice, but a man also should be aware of a couple of points:
1. "A girl has the right to change her mind" )) Trust me, this happens all the time with women ESPECIALLY after having a child. Some women change drastically, and this is universal whether they are from FSU, USA or China. So in order to maintain your relationship you must learn to be flexible and to compromise, compromise and compromise again.

Another point to be aware of, and it's also a universal thing, is that many women go through a midlife crisis of a sort usually approximately between ages 35 and 43 and many marriages do not survive this dangerous stage. When you marry a 25 year old expect her to be quite different at age 35. Her tastes, opinions, priorities will likely be different. She will have matured and become a lot more assertive, and may want different things in life. But if she is a good, righteous person with strong family values you and her will survive this providing you do your part to make things work. Marriage is work, remember that. You must learn to give without expecting anything in return - this is the key. A good woman will do the same, sometimes it may take her a little time but it will happen.


2. As far as "The riskiest thing that men do in this venture is marrying a girl they don't know well enough and not the scams, tricks or deceptions."
Let me say this. Universally women are good actresses and manipulators, even the good, honest ones. Men who are very experienced in relationships recognize this and deal with it. However most men are clueless. They think that women are similar to men and do not realize how different women perceive and process information, arrive to conclusions and act on them. The difference can be vast!

And this is true even when you marry within your own culture and language. When you marry a woman from a different culture with limited or somewhat limited English skills you really do face a serious challenge. Even a very experienced man who is well aware of the things I talked about above will have an enormous challenge figuring things out because of the cultural differences and the language limitations.
Hiring some one like me will save you a lot of time and guesswork, alternatively if you want to do this on your own I would follow Bill's advice: Take your time! Make many trips and make every effort to learn as much as possible about a woman.
The longer you wait the better chance you have that the woman has true interest in you. Women with ulterior motives and a hidden agenda usually don't want to wait for 2 years for a man to move forward with the marriage.

Hope this helps some one.

Old habits are hard to break. 

[ML]

This is obviously where my first marriage went wrong.   Apart from breast-feeding (we didn't have any children) and the menu,

What has the lack of children got to do with this ?

[Patagonie]

I only can applaud what Eduard wrote here:

"2. As far as "The riskiest thing that men do in this venture is marrying a girl they don't know well enough and not the scams, tricks or deceptions."
Let me say this. Universally women are good actresses and manipulators, even the good, honest ones. Men who are very experienced in relationships recognize this and deal with it. However most men are clueless. They think that women are similar to men and do not realize how different women perceive and process information, arrive to conclusions and act on them. The difference can be vast!

And this is true even when you marry within your own culture and language. When you marry a woman from a different culture with limited or somewhat limited English skills you really do face a serious challenge. Even a very experienced man who is well aware of the things I talked about above will have an enormous challenge figuring things out because of the cultural differences and the language limitations.
Hiring some one like me will save you a lot of time and guesswork, alternatively if you want to do this on your own I would follow Bill's advice: Take your time! Make many trips and make every effort to learn as much as possible about a woman.
The longer you wait the better chance you have that the woman has true interest in you. Women with ulterior motives and a hidden agenda usually don't want to wait for 2 years for a man to move forward with the marriage."

Being married i got many private informations in my neighbouring last three years and i saw this many time. During the chase time, a lot of men are blind, and when things start to be serious, men are still blind.
The last example is a guy who was giving 2200$ every month to her ukrainian girlfriend, and she was asking more, saying that it was not enough to finish the month in her city in Ukraine. THe friend who told me this finished by telling to the guy that it was impossible to burn so much money in Ukraine in a normal life each month.
I have also a close example of a married guy who lives just below her mother. She enters in their appartment like it's her garden and manages her son as he is still 16. I told him one year and half ago to make the choice between mama and his wife (she is nice real 8+ educated and nice girl), knowing that he has probably more time later to spend with his wife rather than with mum (and i hope, more exciting night time).
Finaly, recently, i hearded that she wants to leave after getting her european nationality. Mum is the problem that wifey was complaining the most, the husband has never changed anything and hasn't moved to an other place, so it's likely that he's earning a divorce soon.

We usually hear men complaining because as an other fellow wrote there are many more men writing here, but to be honest a lot of men desserve their destiny and their shit.

[Trenchcoat]

I didn't make much effort.  I'm always more interested in casual comfort.  Didn't bother 95% of the women.

This would be my default response but apparently a fair few sources out there suggest spending out on some (reasonably expensive clothes) so that is what I do, it feels a bit strange to me like I am on a bit of a fools errand. I'm not sure whether FSW are all that bothered, so long as clothing is clean and neat enough looking, but to avoid cacking it up I do it, its apparently what the women want. I'm sure it will only take any effect if there is chemistry there in the first place though, lol. That or I'll find out the women prefers non expensive dress.

[Anotherkiwi]

What has the lack of children got to do with this ?

I'd have thought that was pretty bloody obvious!  Leaving aside whatever sexual practices turn you on, you're never going to talk about breast-feeding if you don't have any kids.

[dragonkid]

That's because you read a post and didn't get the point being made and somehow
distilled it down to your post above.

The point wasn't about toothpaste the point was
DON'T GET MARRIED TO SOMEBODY YOU DON'T KNOW


I wrote that many men marry women that they don't know very well and then
they are surprised that girl they married had different opinions regarding
important things that they should have discussed before marriage.

This problem can be even worse with a language/communication barrier.

No you went on a tangent, nothing in your rubbish that you posted actually addressed the important things. You are infamous for looking at the smaller details and missing the bigger picture. You posted a few times that you need to share everything in life in common with your partner for a relationship to work, like hobbies etc. Utter bs, now you switched to discussing with your partner about how hot she likes chili sauce and contents of the cupboard

[2tallbill]

No you went on a tangent, nothing in your rubbish that you posted actually addressed the important things. You are infamous for looking at the smaller details and missing the bigger picture. You posted a few times that you need to share everything in life in common with your partner for a relationship to work, like hobbies etc. Utter bs, now you switched to discussing with your partner about how hot she likes chili sauce and contents of the cupboard

Dkid, I'm not a psychiatrist or knowledgeable about mental disorders. Your brain seems
to jumble things up. Maybe if you reread things after you write them but before you
post them people would be able to understand you better.

Mate,  trophies don't leave their owners, like your last trophy left you because of your zip code.

Sybil/dragonkid , You made up another idea in your head. Please try to explain what
the f#ck you are talking about.

You had to go through 100's of girls, and still your ex wife left you so much for your "knowledge" , guys go out, meet a few women, and remain happily married. Not you, a woman leaves after she realises your zip code is boring. Lol, i will tel any guy, you make your own luck.

Once again Moonbeamkid, explain what you are talking about.

[dragonkid]

Dkid, I'm not a psychiatrist or knowledgeable about mental disorders. Your brain seems
to jumble things up. Maybe if you reread things after you write them but before you
post them people would be able to understand you better.

Sybil/dragonkid , You made up another idea in your head. Please try to explain what
the f#ck you are talking about.

Once again Moonbeamkid, explain what you are talking about.

Do i really need to go into detail about your wife leaving you because she didn't like where you lived?Or was the contents of your cupboards not to her satisfaction? God i hate those women, fucking coffee gold diggers, all they care about is the quality brand of your coffee. Find me a down to earth girl who enjoys a nice cup of nescafe, and hot coco.

[LiveFromUkraine]

Do i really need to go into detail about your wife leaving you because she didn't like where you lived?Or was the contents of your cupboards not to her satisfaction? God i hate those women, fucking coffee gold diggers, all they care about is the quality brand of your coffee. Find me a down to earth girl who enjoys a nice cup of nescafe, and hot coco.

Please tell us some more stories about your successful relations DK.  You seem to enjoy trying to rub it in the face of others.  All I heard was you screwing over your last girl and she got sick and wouldn't get back together when you repeatedly tried. 


Surely you have a ton of experience in relationships.  You certainly act like it on this forum.  I'm interested in hearing some more stories.


All I know is you're some kind of Tinder king.

[Gator]

Find me a down to earth girl who enjoys a nice cup of nescafe, and hot coco.

Then stop looking in the FSU.  They love chai (same pronunciation as in your ancestral language). 

Those who drink the horrid Nescafe, love it when a man grinds her beans, all natural.   

[Faux Pas]

No you went on a tangent, nothing in your rubbish that you posted actually addressed the important things. You are infamous for looking at the smaller details and missing the bigger picture. You posted a few times that you need to share everything in life in common with your partner for a relationship to work, like hobbies etc. Utter bs, now you switched to discussing with your partner about how hot she likes chili sauce and contents of the cupboard

That's actually excellent advice. When/if you ever have a successful relationship you look back on it and remember this day. Do you "have to" have every hobby, every like the same. No, don't be stupid but sharing the same interests in something besides hiding the salami helps. Liking and truly loving your partner helps too. Have you ever liked and loved someone? Has anyone ever liked and loved you? From your postings here my guess the answer is no on both accounts.

You have a lot to learn dk. Just a reminder, you learn more with your ears than you do with your mouth. You seem to have a penchant picking or trying to pick scabs of some very knowledgeable old vets. Did you come here to teach everyone based on your one trip? Did your arrival here have anything at all to do with learning?

[Boethius]

I have also a close example of a married guy who lives just below her mother. She enters in their appartment like it's her garden and manages her son as he is still 16. I told him one year and half ago to make the choice between mama and his wife (she is nice real 8+ educated and nice girl), knowing that he has probably more time later to spend with his wife rather than with mum (and i hope, more exciting night time).Finaly, recently, i hearded that she wants to leave after getting her european nationality. Mum is the problem that wifey was complaining the most, the husband has never changed anything and hasn't moved to an other place, so it's likely that he's earning a divorce soon. We usually hear men complaining because as an other fellow wrote there are many more men writing here, but to be honest a lot of men desserve their destiny and their shit.

Sorry, but even if a man is a mama's boy, this woman is not a "nice girl".  A good person would not be calculating the days to her nationality card before she leaves her husband.  Then, at the end of it, she will wash her hands of him.  Were she nice, she would be telling her husband what bothers her.  Frankly, the mother walking into the apartment is not so different from many FSU families, so she has nothing to complain about in this regard.


To me, she sounds like a monster.

[Boethius]

That's actually excellent advice. When/if you ever have a successful relationship you look back on it and remember this day. Do you "have to" have every hobby, every like the same. No, don't be stupid but sharing the same interests in something besides hiding the salami helps. Liking and truly loving your partner helps too. Have you ever liked and loved someone? Has anyone ever liked and loved you? From your postings here my guess the answer is no on both accounts.

I believe Bill's advice is that a marriage will be more successful if you know the person you are marrying.  As I have posted, I don't think you can really know someone until you live with that person.  This is particularly so in these types of marriages.  I think things like temper, the ability to handle stress, optimism/pessimism/realism, and how each person views these things is more important to the long term success of a marriage.  I just don't think those things are knowable until one has spent considerable time with a person.

[Faux Pas]

I believe Bill's advice is that a marriage will be more successful if you know the person you are marrying.  As I have posted, I don't think you can really know someone until you live with that person. 

I don't agree. You don't have to live with a person to know them. And, you can know someone plenty well enough to marry them without having lived with them. Our culture has been doing it for hundreds of years  I believe you are correct about Bill's advice and I agree with that.

This is particularly so in these types of marriages.  I think things like temper, the ability to handle stress, optimism/pessimism/realism, and how each person views these things is more important to the long term success of a marriage.  I just don't think those things are knowable until one has spent considerable time with a person. [/size]

Now that said, in these type marriages it would be helpful to have lived together IMHO because of the nuances involved. The self inflicted pressure to get married, the legal pressure and the melding of two cultures. The tailgate drops and the bullshit stops (so to speak). Is it necessary? No, it isn't. But not living together is no excuse for not knowing each other

[LiveFromUkraine]

Cohabitation, prior to marriage, leads to higher divorce rates.  I would have thought the opposite would have happened.


http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/03/the-science-of-cohabitation-a-step-toward-marriage-not-a-rebellion/284512/

[Boethius]

I don't agree. You don't have to live with a person to know them. And, you can know someone plenty well enough to marry them without having lived with them. Our culture has been doing it for hundreds of years   

What I mean is, you cannot truly know the essence of a person without having lived with him/her. 


I think it took me about three years to really know my husband.  At this point, there are zero surprises.