The End of Europe?

[msmob]

I agree.  How arrogant.

'Arrogant' is but one adjective I'd use for folk posting daft - after lots of clues



For the BillyB's and Bounders of this world ..


You might like to read and learn ...


[The unhinged backlash to the High Court’s Brexit ruling


http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/11/unhinged-backlash-high-courts-brexit-ruling/

[BillyB]

You need to remove one "http" from you link to make it work. Do you like a few judges to cancel out referendums an elected government created for the entire nation to vote on? Your Parliament was elected and they have the right to create laws but when it comes to hot topic issues, they defer to the people in referendums because they don't want to lose their jobs voting the wrong way. Those few judges can't see an elected government having a right to let the people decide. It seems they want another vote and tells Parliament they must do it. The ruling will get appealed and if the next court upholds the decision, then referendums in your country are worthless.

[msmob]

You need to remove one "http" from you link to make it work.

THX - sorted

Do you like a few judges to cancel out referendums an elected government created for the entire nation to vote on?

Suggest you read the article, now and revert - as your 'points' are covered better than I can manage


Hint - the 'result' isn't cancelled - how / when it is to be fulfilled is ...

[BillyB]

Hint - the 'result' isn't cancelled - how / when it is to be fulfilled is ...

I did read the article but not impressed with the blogger, especially when he said "All the court has done is remind the government that the legislature has rights too." The blogger seems the think the judges believe lawmakers are too stupid to understand their role in government and wanted to remind them they have a say in this too. Of course your government had a say. They chose not deal with Brexit and deferred it to the people in a vote. A yes or no vote shouldn't be this complicated. My guess is the opposition to Brexit will try to tie it up in court indefinitely. Sore losers.

[msmob]

I did read the article but not impressed with the blogger, especially when he said "All the court has done is remind the government that the legislature has rights too." The blogger seems the think the judges believe lawmakers are too stupid to understand their role in government and wanted to remind them they have a say in this too. Of course your government had a say. They chose not deal with Brexit and deferred it to the people in a vote. A yes or no vote shouldn't be this complicated. My guess is the opposition to Brexit will try to tie it up in court indefinitely. Sore losers.

BillyB






You might have been effected by the bloggers style / attitude - who can say - but you cannot - surely - have missed his explanations ?


Once again - hoping you will 'get it' - the 3 judges have ruled that the mechanism to start the leaving process and the terms and final agreement with the EU must be ratified by Parliament


It does not mean that Brexit cannot happen


Further hint:


The UK voted to join the EEC - in a referendum and an act of parliament was then debated on and voted on AFTER ...


There is legal precedent... It's how we joined and therefore how we should leave..

[jone]

What a riot!

Imagine all the money spent on the campaigns for REMAIN and LEAVE and, here, in the end, Parliament still has the final say.  All the vote produced was an advisory referendum.

I wonder how much was spent by England (calling it England for you Moby - after all, Scotland and Northern Ireland voted to stay) spinning its wheels.

[BillyB]

hoping you will 'get it' - the 3 judges have ruled that the mechanism to start the leaving process and the terms and final agreement with the EU must be ratified by Parliament

I get it. Opposition and the 3 judges are hoping that Parliament will reverse Brexit or delay it for many years until they can change people's minds to stay in the EU.

Not everybody thinks the ruling is as innocent as you do. It's getting appealed.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-37868987

What a riot!

Imagine all the money spent on the campaigns for REMAIN and LEAVE and, here, in the end, Parliament still has the final say.  All the vote produced was an advisory referendum.

Nobody stopped the expensive referendum when it started by claiming it would be invalid without Parliament approval. Somebody didn't get their way so now it's a big deal. The people elected Parliament so their vote should be as good as Parliament's when the government allows them to make decisions. Besides being allowed to vote on politicians, my ballot allows me to vote on certain issues that the government could have made themselves. I assume when I and fellow citizens vote on an issue, there will be no further dispute to dismiss or delay our votes.

[Larry1]

Besides being allowed to vote on politicians, my ballot allows me to vote on certain issues that the government could have made themselves. I assume when I and fellow citizens vote on an issue, there will be no further dispute to dismiss or delay our votes.

Actually, judges overturn the results of referenda here too. Here's an example. A few years ago a referendum on same sex marriage was put on the ballot in California.  The result was that same sex marriage was voted down. Opponents of this result found a gay judge in san francisco and filed suit to overturn the result of the referendum.  The gay judge predictably overturned the results of the referendum and ruled in favor of gay marriage.

People can read about it here:

Saying that it discriminates against gay men and women, a federal judge in San Francisco struck down California’s voter-approved ban on same-sex marriage on Wednesday...

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/05/us/05prop.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

[msmob]

Actually, judges overturn the results of referenda here too.

Larry, do you have BillyB's affliction for inattentiveness ?


The Judges have not overturned the result - merely how and when the UK leaves the EU must  be discussed openly and debated in Parliament 

[BillyB]

Actually, judges overturn the results of referenda here too. Here's an example.

I can see a vote get overturned if it trampled on people's rights but dismissing everybody's vote is another story.

Larry, do you have BillyB's affliction for inattentiveness ?

The Judges have not overturned the result - merely how and when the UK leaves the EU must  be discussed openly and debated in Parliament 

Paying attention is important. Where did I say the judges overturned the vote? It is clear they don't honor the vote leaving it open to get overturned or delayed indefinitely by another body. Parliament may very well accept the people's vote in the end but if that must be the case, why even tease citizens to believing their vote even matters?

[Larry1]

Larry, do you have BillyB's affliction for inattentiveness ?


The Judges have not overturned the result - merely how and when the UK leaves the EU must  be discussed openly and debated in Parliament 

my reply had nothing to do with Brexit. It had to do with responding to Billy that courts here overturn ballot initiatives.

[msmob]

my reply had nothing to do with Brexit. It had to do with responding to Billy that courts here overturn ballot initiatives.

Methinks Larry doth protest too much ...
Larry, please tell us what the insertion of TOO meant for you?


Viz..

Actually, judges overturn the results of referenda here, too

Busted?

[Larry1]

Methinks Larry doth protest too much ...
Larry, please tell us what the insertion of TOO meant for you?

Viz..

Busted?

You are, as usual, overanalyzing things. I'm not very familiar with any proceedings in British courts surrounding the Brexit vote. I am somewhat familiar with the united states court proceeding surrounding California's Prop. 8. That was why I responded to BillyB (incidentally, I did not respond to you. No one does that who doesn't want to get drawn into a weeks-long forum feud. Brass has the fortitude and vitriol for that. I don't).

[msmob]

You are, as usual, overanalyzing things.

Nope ..and there was me thinking English was your first language..  I read what you wrote and the context of the discussion ... the rest is Larry still protesting too much ...


Indeed you responded to BillyB's ignorant conclusion - using the adverb 'too' as an agreement . an affirmation.

At least you had the grace to admit you didn't have a clue about the UK Court ruling ..

[Boethius]

Sandro, BC,

Is this true, or yellow journalism?

http://www.ilgiornale.it/news/politica/migranti-ricatto-alfano-carcere-chi-si-oppone-requisizioni-1334580.html

[SANDRO43]

Is this true, or yellow journalism?

The latter, the Ministry of Interior denied the existence of any plan to requisition vacant holiday homes on our coasts to house refugees, with arrest and jail sentences for any who oppose it.

We are having a hotly contested referendum on constitutional reform on December 5, and that news is an example of the anti-Government campaign on it .

[tfcrew]

Italy votes for new constitution amid political turmoilThe December 4 vote could alter the country's constitution and reform the 70-year-old republic.

Italians are voting in a historic referendum over whether to change the country's constitution and reform the 70-year-old republic.
Amid a hard-fought political battle that has polarised the country, Italians have been asked to decide whether they want a more streamlined political system that would, according to those in favour, improve governability, or stick to the document introduced by Italy's founding fathers in 1948, which turned the country into a modern state, but now prevents structural reforms.
The promoters of the referendum, led by Prime Minister Matteo Renzi, say this is a one-time opportunity to radically reform Italy's flawed institutions. Its opponents from across the political spectrum warn that it is a leap into the unknown, paving the way for more instability in the long term.
 Changes to parliament If people vote "yes", there will be a change to Italy's bicameral parliament of two chambers, the Chamber of Deputies and the senate.

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2016/12/italy-votes-constitution-political-turmoil-161203103657041.html

[SANDRO43]

Referendum vote results: Yes 40%, No 60%. The proposed constitutional reforms were rejected.

[jone]

Sandro,

What are your feelings on the referendum?  What is the mood of the people?  Who wins by this referendum not being approved?

[SANDRO43]

Sandro, What are your feelings on the referendum? What is the mood of the people?  Who wins by this referendum not being approved?

I was surprised by the large difference (20%) and the unusually high attendance (75% IIRC) - previous recent referendums had either failed to record the statutory 50% attendance, or had barely made it.

Many voters were disappointed by some Governmental actions - and non-actions. I was in a quandary as how to vote, in the end I opted for a blank ballot - and my intention was punished because on entering my polling station I missed a step and fell flat hurting my wrist, now in a cast for a precautionary measure .

The current Government was asked to remain in charge a few more weeks until the 2017 budget is approved by Parliament. After that, it's in our President's discretion whether to try and appoint a new PM, or dissolve the Parliament and have a general election.

The referendum had a loser - the current PM who instituted it and promoted it relentlessly - and no real winner because the NO front was sponsored by 3 parties who are at odds with each other . 

[jone]

I was surprised by the large difference (20%) and the unusually high attendance (75% IIRC) - previous recent referendums had either failed to record the statutory 50% attendance, or had barely made it.

Many voters were disappointed by some Governmental actions - and non-actions. I was in a quandary as how to vote, in the end I opted for a blank ballot - and my intention was punished because on entering my polling station I missed a step and fell flat hurting my wrist, now in a cast for a precautionary measure .

The current Government was asked to remain in charge a few more weeks until the 2017 budget is approved by Parliament. After that, it's in our President's discretion whether to try and appoint a new PM, or dissolve the Parliament and have a general election.

The referendum had a loser - the current PM who instituted it and promoted it relentlessly - and no real winner because the NO front was sponsored by 3 parties who are at odds with each other .

Sorry about your wrist.  It can come in handy for certain tasks.  As for your quandry, reading the news coming from Italy, it sounds like most of the press doesn't know what to do with it either.  The other big loser, though, seems to be the EU.

[2tallbill]

5 AFGHAN TEENS IN SWEDEN CHARGED WITH RAPING AFGHAN BOY

STOCKHOLM (AP) -- Swedish authorities on Tuesday charged five teenagers from Afghanistan
with aggravated rape for allegedly dragging another Afghan boy into a forest, threatening him
with a knife and raping him.

Stromback said all arrived in Sweden as unaccompanied minors seeking asylum.

read all about it here
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_SWEDEN_SEXUAL_ASSAULT?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2016-12-06-11-32-31

[SANDRO43]

Sorry about your wrist.  It can come in handy for certain tasks.

It's my LEFT wrist, and I'm RIGHT-handed .

The other big loser, though, seems to be the EU.

I don't think so. Our PM had threatened vetoing the forthcoming UE budget if they did not allow Italy to exclude from our accounts the expenses for re-building our earthquake-damaged areas and for accomodating the refugees saved in the Mediterranean, whom were supposed to be re-distributed among all other UE countries but were not except in insignificant numbers.

The next Government might be more accommodating .

[Anotherkiwi]

It's my LEFT wrist, and I'm RIGHT-handed .

So?  I'm right-handed, but the left hand/wrist is far more important for a right-handed batsman in cricket, or a right-handed golfer.  I also play table-tennis left-handed, being slightly less terrible that way than when playing right-handed.  Same with mini-golf - I normally play left-handed because I'm slightly better that way round.

[SANDRO43]

the left hand/wrist is far more important for a right-handed batsman in cricket, or a right-handed golfer.

The last time I played golf was 50 years ago on a 9-hole hilly course, and I never tried cricket either, so a left hand/wrist has always been of little use to me .