Sochi air crash

[msmob]

I've read no quotes/links from Jane's defence on this thread.

Yes - you have. That you don't have access to Jane's database is now clear ...

Suggest you ask the Beeb where the info posted in http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38449058 was sourced.

Further clues here:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38445258

''That said, few of the 39 fatal accidents involving this model of the Tupolev have been attributed to technical problems''

[Anotherkiwi]

''That said, few of the 39 fatal accidents involving this model of the Tupolev have been attributed to technical problems''

Which means that at least some of them HAVE.  I had a couple of flights in TU-154s on my first trip to Russia.  Although there were no problems on those particular flights, I would quite happily NOT fly in that model again.

[Brasscasing]

Yes - you have. That you don't have access to Jane's database is now clear ...

Suggest you ask the Beeb where the info posted in http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38449058 was sourced.

Further clues here:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38445258

''That said, few of the 39 fatal accidents involving this model of the Tupolev have been attributed to technical problems''

In other words the BBC did not source their article from Jane's Defence and you cannot link anything from either Jane's or the BBC showing they did.

However, please prove me wrong and post a link or substantiation if you can. I'd be interested in reading it. 

Again, your assertion that " few of the 39 fatal accidents involving this model of the Tupolev have been attributed to technical problems'' is incorrect.

You are trying to conflate crashes with fatalities and crashes due to mechanical failure/technical malfunction.

..."There have been 39 fatal incidents involving the Tupolev-154, which was first flown in 1968."...

http://www.euronews.com/2016/12/27/the-story-behind-the-tupolev-154

The accurate statistics outlining mechanical failure/technical problems are recorded here...

Accident list: Tupolev 154

Last updated: 28 December 2016

110 occurrences in the ASN safety database

http://aviation-safety.net/database/types/Tupolev-154/database

Brass

[msmob]

In other words the BBC did not source their article from Jane's Defence and you cannot link anything from either Jane's or the BBC showing they did.

Better you ask the Beeb as suggested ...

However, please prove me wrong and post a link or substantiation if you can. I'd be interested in reading it. 

I cannot post a link to confirm what I simply know to be factual..  as do the Beeb.. 

You are trying to conflate crashes with fatalities and crashes due to mechanical failure/technical malfunction.

Nope ... simply pointing out that the Beeb - via it's knowledgeable source [ that's more knowledgeable than me and you ] said aircraft is not as unreliable as raw stats might make it appear ...

[Brasscasing]

Better you ask the Beeb as suggested ...

I cannot post a link to confirm what I simply know to be factual..  as do the Beeb.. 


Nope ... simply pointing out that the Beeb - via it's knowledgeable source [ that's more knowledgeable than me and you ] said aircraft is not as unreliable as raw stats might make it appear ...

Translation: You were BSing us (again) and trying to blow smoke up the readership's cyber behinds.

But hey, you're entitled to an opinion. If you think the TU-154 is safe and can  find an airline still flying one of these airborne coffins, feel free to roll the dice and hop on board.

Just don't try telling the rest of world they're a safe airliner contrary to every safety record/report ever compiled.

Brass

[msmob]

Translation: You were BSing us (again) and trying to blow smoke up the readership's cyber behinds.

I 'see' - so by inference - so are the Beeb ... ?!

Just don't try telling the rest of world they're a safe airliner contrary to every safety record/report ever compiled.

Brass

You really DO need to ask the Beeb what their source for their 'opinion' was ....

[Brasscasing]

I 'see' - so by inference - so are the Beeb ... ?!


You really DO need to ask the Beeb what their source for their 'opinion' was ....

Not at all. I'm stating the BBC source was not Jane's as you posted and am asking you to substantiate your claim that it was.

I need to ask the BBC for nothing of the sort. You're the one stating the information the BBC used was Jane's, not I. What I'm asking you to do is link said information so I may read it. 

Brass

[msmob]

I'm stating the BBC source was not Jane's

)) 

I need to ask the BBC for nothing of the sort.

Only if you seek to avoid the facts ... to remind you ..the Tu-154 has ''seen 39 fatal accidents, although few were due to technical problems'' quoting the BBC - I told you the source...

[Brasscasing]

)) 

Only if you seek to avoid the facts ... to remind you ..the Tu-154 has ''seen 39 fatal accidents, although few were due to technical problems'' quoting the BBC - I told you the source...

Yes you did, you also stated the BBC sourced that information from Jane's. I'm stating Jane's says nothing of the sort and to link/substantiate your claim Jane's is the source for the BBC article.

I've also stated your figure is inaccurate and showed you why to which you've replied several times now I seek to avoid the facts - Alright, prove me wrong and produce your substantiation/facts.

If the BBC did source from IHS Jane's as you claim then it should be easy enough for you to link/substantiate said information.  Please do so that I may read it.

Brass

[Boethius]

Points have been made.  Move on.

[Brasscasing]

Points have been made.  Move on.

...Yes, ma'am. 

Brass

[msmob]

I realise there's been the new year 'n all - but the news concerning this crash is v.quite in Russia 

There is no evidence to suggest a terrorist attack - in fact there's been an inordinate rush to suggest otherwise...

[msmob]

Now it's 'Pilot error'
http://life.ru/t/%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%81%D1%81%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%8F/957061/zaghadka_krushieniia_tu-154_raskryta



So, either we  are asked to believe poorly trained co-pilots - this being a MILITARY flight, remember

AND the experienced pilot allowed overloading

AND then the controls were mixed up..

OR..

Something else

Really, no matter WHAT the outcome - it seems the blame game for incompetence has started

Remember this was the outlet that first told us - on video - that the Malaysian 777 was a Ukrainian AN-26 ... shot down by 'the rebels'