Latest info re immigration from Trump

[GQBlues]

This is also the type of dialog that prompted Jorge Ramos to make the statement, “...this is our country too...We are close to 60 million Latinos in the United States...”

This 60 million is what I meant by changing demographics in the US.  When, and not if this population gets organized, the wall may become a rallying point for them.  Then you may have second thoughts about the wisdom of building it.

Krimster-

For the sake of discussion, Pew Research did in fact conducted a study about this very subject. Centering on what Hispanic Americans feel overall about immigration legislation.

http://www.pewhispanic.org/2014/10/29/chapter-5-hispanics-and-their-views-of-immigration-reform/

Please remember, the most affected community by illegal immigration are our Hispanic communities. They are, by and large, the most impacted in job competition caused by illegal immigration.

[krimster2]

Before I was married I dated a Latina, last name Valdez, whose family made me a frequent and welcomed guest in their home, I never detected any hostility towards anyone there, illegal immigrants or otherwise.  My youngest daughter has several friends who are legal Hispanic immigrants, they come to our house and we go theirs, no hostility there either.  I have Hispanic people who do the landscaping and maintenance for us, who probably are not here legally, I love these guys, honest hardworking men who just want the chance to take care of their families, I invite their kids over to use our pool, and see no problem with them...

[GQBlues]

I can provide the same anecdote like you just did, and at the same time provide an equal measure of anecdote on why illegal immigrants need to go.

Further, I can provide anecdote in the same vein like you just did except replace 'Hispanic' with another nationality/ies.

The bottom line is, these illegal immigrants, especially Mexico, have their own country/ies and government/s to be held responsible for their welfare. I said especially Mexico because Mexico is one of the globe's top economy. If these Mexican migrants are this hard working, then it behooves Mexico to make sure these guys to stay in-country, wouldn't you say?

http://money.cnn.com/news/economy/world_economies_gdp/

Heck, they'd even help their country become even more productive.

[krimster2]

well, I guess that's the problem with anecdotes....

so why didn't your ancestors follow your advice and stay in their country?

[GQBlues]

Because we have a penchant of doing things 'legally'.

How about yours?

[Gator]

Well, it's actually an 'equitable' proposition. The liberals can solely benefit from the so-called 'cheap labor' they counter with all the time. In return, they pay additional yearly 'taxes' for the continued and perpetual sponsorship costs of these illegals and their offspring.

This is not a new program.  In fact it is consistent with US history.  The large landowners did the same in the 17th, 18th and early 19thC  for immigrants from West Africa.  Then came the Chinese for the West Coast, and let us not forget the sweatshops in the Northeast for the Irish.  There were others who came to America on an indentured basis.  I participated as well - Danish nanny. 

Are you sure this is a good idea.  Can we trust the liberals to be moral, kind hosts? 

[GQBlues]

This is not a new program.  In fact it is consistent with US history.  The large landowners did the same in the 17th, 18th and early 19thC  for immigrants from West Africa.  Then came the Chinese for the West Coast, and let us not forget the sweatshops in the Northeast for the Irish.  There were others who came to America on an indentured basis.  I participated as well - Danish nanny. 

Are you sure this is a good idea.  Can we trust the liberals to be moral, kind hosts?

I don't see why not. Just a word of caution though. The last time we saw Democrats this piss@ed off was when the Republicans freed the slaves. 

History does have a tendency to repeat itself.

[Gator]

The last time we saw Democrats this piss@ed off was when the Republicans freed the slaves. 

 

Who did we set free this time?  The Working Class, aka the Deplorables. 

[krimster2]

well, my paternal grandparents were refugees from Ukraine, had they come to the US a few years later, the immigration laws of 1924 would have blocked them from coming here.

My mother, being a British citizen, was in the most preferred immigration class, so it was not difficult for her to immigrate here legally

so, if my grandparents tried to come here later, or if my Mother wan’t British, they’d have been in the same position

“there, but for the grace of god go I ....”

[LiveFromUkraine]

well, my paternal grandparents were refugees from Ukraine, had they come to the US a few years later, the immigration laws of 1924 would have blocked them from coming here.

My mother, being a British citizen, was in the most preferred immigration class, so it was not difficult for her to immigrate here legally

so, if my grandparents tried to come here later, or if my Mother wan’t British, they’d have been in the same position

“there, but for the grace of god go I ....”

Krimster, I take it you are for open borders.   Is there a country out there that allows anyone to enter, to work  and to stay for as long as they wish?  I have always dealt with immigration laws of other countries when travelling.  Even the 3rd world countries I visited had immigration laws.

[krimster2]

“Krimster, I take it you are for open borders. “

No, I’m in favor of laws that are merciful and just and not based on prejudice and discrimination.

“I have always dealt with immigration laws of other countries when travelling.  Even the 3rd world countries I visited had immigration laws.”

I to have been a legal resident in other countries, because I am a member of a protected class.  My nationality, my education and job skills, my wealth, mean I can go live wherever I want to

I would do anything to take care of my family, ANYTHING.  Including breaking the law, because maybe in that case breaking the law is in reality answering to a higher law.  I hope tomorrow when y’all wake up, you find that the life you’ve been living was all just a dream, and your children are all standing around you saying they’re hungry and there’s no jobs, no money, and no hope, and after making a dangerous journey on foot across a vast desert, where some of you die to seek a better life, you come face to face with yourselves, and then you realize what kind of people you really are...

Hey, we should chill, someone is finding it hard to ask about Skype, BTW, would be Skyper, Google is your friend, when I whispered your little problem to it, it told me to tell you to check out, “http://community.skype.com/”  We square now?

 

[Gator]

Krimster, I take it you are for open borders.   Is there a country out there that allows anyone to enter, to work  and to stay for as long as they wish?  I have always dealt with immigration laws of other countries when travelling.  Even the 3rd world countries I visited had immigration laws.

                            RSA and US Illegal Immigration Issues

This week South Africa had violent anti-immigration demonstrations.  Demonstrators oppose foreigners because they take jobs from locals  in a country with 25% unemployment.  Demonstrators also claim  the foreigners bring crime.  The protesters want the government to crack down on companies who hire illegal immigrants. 

This is not a new issue, and demonstrations have turned deadly in the past. 

  In 2015, anti-immigrant riots in and around the city of Durban left at least six people dead. About 60 people were killed in similar violence seven years earlier. 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/feb/24/south-african-police-use-force-anti-immigration-protest-pretoria

There are parallels with the US.  In both  RSA and  US, the primary concerns are crime and competition for jobs.   Also similar are the number of illegals:  illegals account for 3% of the population in RSA and 2-6% in the US.

What's different?  Krimster says racial prejudice and discrimination are behind the opposition to illegal immigrants in the US.   Racism is not a factor in RSA because the illegals are essentially all black, with Nigeria being the largest source.     

[LiveFromUkraine]

What a speech!  haha

“Krimster, I take it you are for open borders. “

No, I’m in favor of laws that are merciful and just and not based on prejudice and discrimination.

This is the beginning of a kumbaya moment, but wait there is more!  I don't know how you can have immigration laws without some form of discrimination.  Is it possible?  If so, I'd appreciate some examples.

I to have been a legal resident in other countries, because I am a member of a protected class.  My nationality, my education and job skills, my wealth, mean I can go live wherever I want to

Yes, we are lucky to be born where we were.  We are allowed more travel because the countries allowing us to enter see us as less likely to stay after our tourist visa ends.  There is a good chance if we were likely to stay they wouldn't allow us in.   I don't agree that you can go and live wherever you want. 

I would do anything to take care of my family, ANYTHING.  Including breaking the law, because maybe in that case breaking the law is in reality answering to a higher law.  I hope tomorrow when y’all wake up, you find that the life you’ve been living was all just a dream, and your children are all standing around you saying they’re hungry and there’s no jobs, no money, and no hope, and after making a dangerous journey on foot across a vast desert, where some of you die to seek a better life, you come face to face with yourselves, and then you realize what kind of people you really are...

And the end of kumbaya! lol


Why stop there?  Go for a home run and wish the rest of us cancer or aids.  It always amuses me when a liberal starts off with speeches of kumbaya and almost always end up wishing those that disagree with them bad things.


"I want everyone to be happy and if you disagree I want you to die a miserable death."  haha

Hey, we should chill, someone is finding it hard to ask about Skype, BTW, would be Skyper, Google is your friend, when I whispered your little problem to it, it told me to tell you to check out, “http://community.skype.com/”  We square now?

Well, there goes that tolerance again.  We have taken over the forum with political discussion.  I can see their point in wanting to discuss more topics along the lines of the main theme.

[LiveFromUkraine]

What's different?  Krimster says racial prejudice and discrimination are behind the opposition to illegal immigrants in the US.   Racism is not a factor in RSA because the illegals are essentially all black, with Nigeria being the largest source.     

I don't see the racial prejudice either.  Immigration is discriminatory in nature.   It's either open borders or discrimination of some sort. 

[krimster2]

sorry guys, I was busy making a donation to Voto Latino who last year helped register over 100,000 new Latino voters, I’ve also registered as a volunteer, so from now on I will be too busy to listen to your complaints about how illegal immigration is ruining the USA, smell ya’ll later!

[krimster2]

“Why stop there?  Go for a home run and wish the rest of us cancer or aids.  It always amuses me when a liberal starts off with speeches of kumbaya and almost always end up wishing those that disagree with them bad things. “

oh my, well I’m just evil personified aren’t I?  kids y’all better eat yur vegetables or krimster’ll getcha, hmmmmmm.  so experiencing for yourself that which you inflict on others is a bad thing, eh?  well, sounds like the 1st step of enlightenment

adios muchachos!

[Gator]

sorry guys, I was busy making a donation to Voto Latino who last year helped register over 100,000 new Latino voters, I’ve also registered as a volunteer, so from now on I will be too busy to listen to your complaints about how illegal immigration is ruining the USA, smell ya’ll later!

Whatever makes you happy.  Give me your address and I will send you some red caps to hand out to your new friends. 

         

[krimster2]

thanks, but I like my pussy hat better

[LiveFromUkraine]

oh my, well I’m just evil personified aren’t I?  kids y’all better eat yur vegetables or krimster’ll getcha, hmmmmmm.  so experiencing for yourself that which you inflict on others is a bad thing, eh?  well, sounds like the 1st step of enlightenment

Sounds good.  When do you plan on moving your family and watching them starve in the name of enlightment?  That is what you wished on us.


"  I hope tomorrow when y’all wake up, you find that the life you’ve been living was all just a dream, and your children are all standing around you saying they’re hungry and there’s no jobs, no money, and no hope, and after making a dangerous journey on foot across a vast desert, where some of you die to seek a better life, you come face to face with yourselves, and then you realize what kind of people you really are..."

[fathertime]

You ever get the feeling that Krimster has never had a direct conversation with a legal immigrant, who came here, got their green card, and made a future for themselves? 

There is a signficant more amount of pride a legal immigrant has for our country when compared to someone who has come here illegally. 

I have known both.  Most of the legal immigrants want nothing to do with the illegals.  And the discussions I've had with the illegals?  Well, the belligerence of the illegals towards the United States is quite significant, on the whole.

I get the feeling you are just trying to BS your way through a conversation by bolstering your 'credential' to speak, while attempting to minimize anything someone with an opposing viewpoint has to say, as is not atypical for you.   


Illegal immigrants in some respects are very different than your average legal immigrant.  I've found the illegals to be very humble and cooperative, and hard working, generally speaking.  Obviously our representatives had decided that both were important in their own way.
 If they change their minds and decide to follow the law more stringently than that is fine...yet deporting law abiding (Aside from entry related crimes) families and individuals that are already settled isn't necessary nor the right thing to do in my opinion. 


Fathertime! 

[krimster2]

“Sounds good.  When do you plan on moving your family and watching them starve in the name of enlightment?  That is what you wished on us.”

No, what I wished upon you, was that you would see the life of those whom you condemn, see them as fellow human beings, that you understood their suffering by experiencing it for yourself, if I wanted you to experience suffering them I’d wish you spent all your money on a Trump Tower, or bought a degree from Trump University, but I’m not that cruel...

[LiveFromUkraine]

“Sounds good.  When do you plan on moving your family and watching them starve in the name of enlightment?  That is what you wished on us.”

No, what I wished upon you, was that you would see the life of those whom you condemn, see them as fellow human beings, that you understood their suffering by experiencing it for yourself, if I wanted you to experience suffering them I’d wish you spent all your money on a Trump Tower, or bought a degree from Trump University, but I’m not that cruel...

Sure you did, you wished us to suffer.  For some reason, you think you understand the plight of the average illegal in America. 

I doubt you had watched your own children starve which obviously every illegal immigrant in America has. Let me guess, you hired some Mexicans to take care of your house, to cut your grass, wash laundry, etc... and when you were paying them their cash you looked deeply into their eyes and felt their pain as if it was your own.  lol 


It is quite funny how you think you know more than the rest of us when you don't know any of our backgrounds and experiences. 

[krimster2]

I have quite a bit of travel experience in Mexico, my favorite place is Guanajuato. I’ve also been to many of the border towns like Magdalena in Sonora, and also to Merida in the Yucatan not to far from Chichen Itza, which is stunning, I highly recommend going to the big public market in Merida. I don’t like Mexico City so much, I prefer the smaller places. 

The one thing that is striking to me is the poverty there, even though the people work very hard, it doesn’t seem to matter, they can just barely survive.  People in the small villages fare better because they can have supplemental gardens and grow extra food, extraordinary to watch the big tortilla slicing machines that the government provides to give poor people a government supported food supplement.  I’ve seen homeless children huddled together at night for warmth, villages where most of the people live in shacks with dirt floors and no indoor plumbing, and then there are the cartels, which rob and kill and extort and make the lives of good honest people a hell, even local bus companies have to pay a “krisha” to them, so fares went up.  Then there are mass murders that happen frequently...

So I see all this, and I have to say, that if it were my children living in this, I’d do anything to get them out, so I guess I have a character flaw of empathizing with these people.  They’re not here to steal or rob or kill, but to give their kids comfort and security that they can’t obtain back in Mexico.  We could soften our immigration laws, give the DREAMERS a chance, we could choose to help these people, but what I have seen in the people here in the US after returning here from Ukraine, is nothing more than raw bigotry displayed towards them.

So what I wished for you was that you see the world through their eyes, to feel what it’s like to know that you are powerless to protect your children from drug lords and poverty no matter how hard you worked to do so.  Are you so hard hearted that you cannot look upon your brothers and your brothers children with compassion?  Is it really wrong for me to do so?

[jone]

Krimster,

Maybe you should spend your time in Mexico building homes for all of these homeless people you mention rather than volunteer for the US to take care of them.  It is not in the interest of the United States to fold in these people. 

Should you get off your brotherly soap box, I can tell you that a stud home of about 12 X 12 takes two and a half days to build, with the right tools.  Typically, the new home owner will stucco their home so it is only incumbent on you to wrap the studs with small gauge chicken wire.

Clearly you haven't thought alot of stuff through about immigration, but I do acknowlege that I like where your heart is at.  Just don't tell us that the land we live in really belongs to Mexico and the Mexicans.

[krimster2]

I think they’ve pretty much already implemented the low cost/no cost housing from discarded shipping palettes, pieces of old refrigerators and junk plywood, it takes more than that, like a decent paying job (average wage in Mexico is about $6 per day), physical security, providing this might be a bit beyond my personal means to do so for millions...

“Just don't tell us that the land we live in really belongs to Mexico and the Mexicans.”

You do realize that when the Pilgrims came to Plymouth Rock, that there were people already living there right?

“Clearly you haven't thought alot of stuff through about immigration,”

True, I’m not an expert on the subject, but what I’ve seen about it here in the US has more to do with racism than immigration and it’s always been that way